Hi everybody - my first post here.
With a 5 month old baby and 2 currently unprotected ponds, one of my
jobs for the summer is fairly obvious! Question is, 'how'? My
options seem to be:
1. Fill them in, but it would be a shame to lose the associated
wildlife. (Even greater shame to lose a toddler though).
2. Fence them in - difficult to do without it becoming unsightly, and in
the years to come climbing it would be a challange in itself!
3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward
shapes.
Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an
appropriate FAQ?
--
Regards
Peter Hughes.

I've seen a product that you can buy to do this. It comes as smallish
plastic grids which are fixed just below the water level. Plants can still
grow thru it, it's quite difficult to see, and can easily take the weight of
a full grown adult. Not sure what it was called tho. It was on one of those
garden makeover programs in the last month or so.

Best,

- h

"Peter Hughes" wrote in message
. ..

3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward
shapes.
Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an
appropriate FAQ?

try:

http://www.ornamentalfish.org/aquana...s/safapond.htm

usual caveats... I am not recommending or warranting the safety etc etc

pk

"Paul Kelly" wrote in message
...

"Peter Hughes" wrote in message
. ..

3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward
shapes.
Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an
appropriate FAQ?

try:

http://www.ornamentalfish.org/aquana...s/safapond.htm

usual caveats... I am not recommending or warranting the safety etc etc


Better still I've found the company site - the link on the first one did not
work

http://www.entdirect.plus.com/safapond/

pk

On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:01:18 -0000, H wrote:

It comes as smallish plastic grids which are fixed just below the
water level.

Remember that a baby or toddler can drown in half an inch of water.
The grid may stop the child getting a full dunking(*) but if the child
feel onto the grid face down, maybe knocking itself out... This is
pretty rigid grid if it'll take the weight of an adult.

(*) A full dunking would probably imprint quite strongly and make a
child pretty wary of water in the future, a good thing IMHO.

Personaly I'd go for isolating the ponds doesn't need to be Fort Knox,
dark green plastic mesh 18" high on stout stakes should do. But don't
forget a good, firm, education about the dangers of water and not
pushing the fenches over... And of course a young toddler should never
be left alone in a garden anyway.

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.

In article , Peter Hughes
writes
Hi everybody - my first post here.
With a 5 month old baby and 2 currently unprotected ponds, one of my
jobs for the summer is fairly obvious! Question is, 'how'? My
options seem to be:
1. Fill them in, but it would be a shame to lose the associated
wildlife. (Even greater shame to lose a toddler though).
2. Fence them in - difficult to do without it becoming unsightly, and in
the years to come climbing it would be a challange in itself!
3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward
shapes.
Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an
appropriate FAQ?

More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world
--
David

In article , David david.simp
writes

More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds

hardly surprising ... more houses have baths than have garden ponds ;-)

and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway,

yes

supervise then educate, don't childproof the world

I agree there. Though a physical barrier in front of something that can
kill, rather than simply injure, seems sensible until you are sure the
education has been successful!

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

"David" wrote in message
...
In article , Peter Hughes
writes

More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world


I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel.

pk

In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote:

"David" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Peter Hughes
writes

More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world

I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel.

When you have calmed down, try and think rationally, and then you may
find that it is not drivel.

It is quite possible that having a pond in the garden reduces the
chane of a child drowning. The reason is that most deaths are in
moving water (rivers, the sea etc.) and letting a child learn about
water in a relatively safe environment will reduce the risk when it
comes across a dangerous one.

I don't know if that IS the case, but it is by no means unlikely.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ill.network:


On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:01:18 -0000, H wrote:

It comes as smallish plastic grids which are fixed just below the
water level.

Remember that a baby or toddler can drown in half an inch of water.
The grid may stop the child getting a full dunking(*) but if the child
feel onto the grid face down, maybe knocking itself out... This is
pretty rigid grid if it'll take the weight of an adult.

(*) A full dunking would probably imprint quite strongly and make a
child pretty wary of water in the future, a good thing IMHO.

I am not sure about that. My sister as a toddler went through a phase when
she just could not stop falling/leaping into water and was constantly
having to be fished out of ponds, the sea, streams etc. We aren't sure if
she enjoyed the swim or the consequent attention!

Luckily she floated like a cork (honestly, even if you swam underneath and
pulled on the feet she did not sink - as an elder sister I can vouch for
this...)

But I presume not all small children have this amazing floatation ability.

Victoria

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote:

"David" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Peter Hughes
writes

More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world

I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel.

When you have calmed down, try and think rationally, and then you may
find that it is not drivel.

It is quite possible that having a pond in the garden reduces the
chane of a child drowning. The reason is that most deaths are in
moving water (rivers, the sea etc.) and letting a child learn about
water in a relatively safe environment will reduce the risk when it
comes across a dangerous one.

Indeed.

There is a DTI leaflet available online at:

http://www2.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/s...a/pondsafe.pdf

But ti doesn't really say anything very much, and I'm not sure about
some of the things it says.

I do seem to remember though that most drownings in ponds (and there
aren't many) happen in others peoples gardens, rather than the child's
own garden. (Reasons for this could of course vary, did they have ponds
in the garden, where they protected from falling in etc. ?)

We have a couple of small ponds and haven't done anything in particular
to them. But parents have different tolerances towards these sorts of
dangers for their children, I certainly wouldn't criticise someone if
they did want to cover or fence it off.

Sure small children shouldn't be left unsupervised in the garden, but it
may only take a few moments for a child to get them selves into a sticky
situation
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
urg Suppliers and References FAQ:
http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html

"Chris French and Helen Johnson" wrote in
message ...
In message , Nick Maclaren

Sure small children shouldn't be left unsupervised in the garden, but it
may only take a few moments for a child to get them selves into a sticky
situation


ie die

pk

David wrote:
More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world

Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children
learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young
the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers.
You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to
realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up.

Trev

"H" wrote in message
...
I've seen a product that you can buy to do this. It comes as smallish
plastic grids which are fixed just below the water level. Plants can still
grow thru it, it's quite difficult to see, and can easily take the weight
of
a full grown adult. Not sure what it was called tho. It was on one of
those
garden makeover programs in the last month or so.

I saw it too and it looks excellent if it can be installed into a new pond.

However, I was concerned that the weight of a foot standing on it would not
be sufficiently dissipated to stop piercing a liner.

I think (unfortunately) the only solution to the "young children plus ponds"
dilemma is a metal grill over the top or VERY high walls around the sides.

:-)

Which gets me thinking more seriously, what are the chances of fencing off
the area with the pond/s in and fitting a self-closing childproof lock to
the one and only gate entrance?

--
Brian
"posting from Sutton, Winner of the English and Welsh Village of the Year
award"

"Trevor Barton" wrote in message
...
David wrote:
More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children
who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out
unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world

Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children
learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young
the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers.
You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to
realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up.

Trev

So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you
say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ?

In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2
year old plays in the garden?

You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year
old out of the pond?

Try a google search for "drowning in garden ponds"



From http://www.dti.gov.uk/homesafetynetwork/dw_stats.htm

Overall Summary of the garden drownings figures for data period 1992 – 1999

Only 24% of the UK fatal drowning incidents in domestic gardens, 1992 to
1999, involving children of 5 or under occurred at the child's home.
Children are most at risk from drowning in the gardens of neighbours,
relatives or friends. 69% of the incidents involved garden ponds.

Summary – Garden Ponds
Over the last eight years 62 children, aged 5 and under, have drowned in
garden ponds. This is an average of eight a year. This is relatively
constant.
Over 85% involved one or two year old children.
Boys were involved in 79% of these incidents. Boys would appear to be more
adventurous or more attracted to ponds than girls.
Only 18% drowned in their own gardens.
29% drowned while visiting, or being cared for, at a relative’s home.
10% drowned while their parents were visiting a friend’s home.
The largest percentage (39%) drowned in a neighbour’s pond after wandering
away from their own home or the home of the people they were visiting.
Boys are more likely to wander into neighbour's property than girls.
Neighbours account for 45% of all garden pond incidents involving boys. For
girls the figure was 13%.




From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1964768.stm

Gardening programmes on television may be partly to blame for a sharp rise
in the number of children drowning in garden ponds, researchers have
suggested.
A study found that while the overall number of children drowning in the UK
had fallen over a 10 year period, the number of deaths caused by children
falling into ponds had almost doubled.

The researchers said the rise might be due to an increased number of water
features in gardens - perhaps inspired by TV gardening shows.

The team, from the University of Wales College of Medicine, the Royal Life
Saving Society, and the Royal Society for Prevention of Accidents, compared
statistics for deaths by drowning in children aged up to 14 in 1988-9 and
1998-9.

The rise in the number of drownings in garden ponds may be due to an
increase in the number of water features in gardens

Research team led by Professor Jo Sibert
They looked at drownings in baths, garden ponds, domestic pools, private and
public pools, rivers, canals, lakes and the sea.

In total, 104 children drowned in 1998-9, compared with 149 in 1988-9.

In all categories, except garden ponds, there were as many or fewer deaths
in 1998-9 compared to 10 years earlier.

Eleven children drowned in garden ponds in 1988-9, but this figure rose to
21 a decade later.

Three times more boys than girls drowned during both periods, and autistic
children were particularly at risk, the researchers found.

They said drownings in hotel and apartment pools abroad were still of major
concern, and called on safety organisations and holiday companies to address
the problem.

They also called for detailed data on deaths by drowning to be collected
routinely by government statistics offices in the UK.

'Real threat'

Writing in the British Medical Journal, the researchers led by Professor Jo
Sibert, said: "The rise in the number of drownings in garden ponds may be
due to an increase in the number of water features in gardens, perhaps as a
result of popular garden programmes on television.

"Garden ponds remain a real threat to toddlers and should be covered or
fenced.

"The reduction in drownings in domestic pools may be due to fewer pools
being installed and used and some pools having safety fences and gates."

Roger Vincent, spokesman for the Royal Society for the Prevention of
Accidents, told BBC News Online: "We would like to see garden shows putting
in advice wherever they can."

But he said the overall rate of drownings depended on many factors,
including the weather.

In hot summers, people are more likely to swim in potentially dangerous
waters, such as canals and lakes.

He added: "With garden ponds, no matter what safety precautions have been
taken, children find ways around them."

Mr Vincent warned the majority of pond accidents happened in other people's
gardens, either because safety precautions were not in place or because
parents were unaware of the existence of a pond.

Last week, TV gardener Charlie Dimmock spoke out on how to ensure garden
ponds and water features were safe in a statement from the Royal Life Saving
Society.

She said: "The first thing to remind people is that gardens are dangerous
places and it's important to make them as safe as possible.

"I'm not saying not to have ponds or water features.

"Children need to learn about water safety, much as they have to learn other
things in life, such as how to cross roads, and ponds can also provide
excellent educational wildlife environments.

"What I am saying is to think about your garden, plan it properly, make it
safe, and most of all, don't forget to enjoy it."

pk