Hello all. I've been lurking here for a few days, picking up information
for our 1st garden landscaping adventure. It's a great group.

We're planning a gravel path from the back door leading into the garden
and to a patio area big enough for a table and chairs. Beyond is a lawn.
We've removed old paving slabs leading away from the house and have dug
up the turf where the patio is to go. We've worked out that we need to
dig down all over about 100mm and fill in with about 90mm of sub-base
which will compact down to about 75mm. On top of that will go 1" of
sharp sand where the patio will be which will be levelled of with an
appropriate fall. Then paving slabs of some description on top. Then
we'll put down about 30mm of gravel for the path which will butt up to
the patio on 2 edges.

My questions;

1. I have gathered all the information so far from the web and this
group. Some people say to tamp down the sand before laying the paving
slabs and some say not to. Which do I do? Obviously I'd rather not if
it's not essential! Do you tamp the sand down if you are going to use
mortar to lay the slabs? I was thinking of just laying them down on the
sand.

2. I thought we would do the patio 1st. Do I need to 'box in' the sand I
put down so that when I lay the slabs the sand at the edges doesn't
trickle away over time? There will be edging (still undecided on what
exactly) all round the path and between the patio and the lawn but I'm
not sure what to do where the patio meets the gravel path.

3. Does my plan above look okay? Have I missed anything? Incidentally,
I'll let the price settle the membrane/fabric argument - if it's cheap
enough I'll use it anyway, if it's expensive enough I'll consider it a
waste of time.

Many thanks to anyone who can help - my head's swimming with all the
info on the internet!

Iain

Iain Robinson wrote:
Hello all. I've been lurking here for a few days, picking up
information for our 1st garden landscaping adventure. It's a great
group.


Go to:

http://www.pavingexpert.com/home.htm for the definitive answer on all things
paving!

The one point I would disagree on is the use of a sand bed. Always use a
full bed of drymix mortar - unless you like ants!

pk

Iain Robinson wrote:
:: Hello all. I've been lurking here for a few days, picking up information
:: for our 1st garden landscaping adventure. It's a great group.
::
:: We're planning a gravel path from the back door leading into the garden
:: and to a patio area big enough for a table and chairs. Beyond is a lawn.
:: We've removed old paving slabs leading away from the house and have dug
:: up the turf where the patio is to go. We've worked out that we need to
:: dig down all over about 100mm and fill in with about 90mm of sub-base

Maybe if you intend driving a 4X4 over it every day, for foot traffic, 30mm
of ballast (crush & run) and 30mm of grit is ample.

:: which will compact down to about 75mm. On top of that will go 1" of
:: sharp sand where the patio will be which will be levelled of with an
:: appropriate fall. Then paving slabs of some description on top. Then
:: we'll put down about 30mm of gravel for the path which will butt up to
:: the patio on 2 edges.
::
:: My questions;
::
:: 1. I have gathered all the information so far from the web and this
:: group. Some people say to tamp down the sand before laying the paving
:: slabs and some say not to. Which do I do? Obviously I'd rather not if
:: it's not essential! Do you tamp the sand down if you are going to use
:: mortar to lay the slabs? I was thinking of just laying them down on the
:: sand.

The sub base IE the hardcore should be tamped or preferably whacked down
with a mechanical compacter, this will give you your levels, what I'm saying
is you can get the correct 'run' and angles of flow with the sub base...as
you go over it, fill in any hollows and scrape off any lumps until you have
a suitable surface on which to lay your sand/grit (don't tamp it
down!)....to lay the perfect bed for patio flags, get three lngths of
straight timber, 3X2 is perfect and lay one down each side flat on the
prepared sub base, fill in with dry sand and cement mix (quite weak, you
only need about 2KG of cement per metre, to simplify, one bag of cement will
cover about 12m of patio) between the two spars and level roughly with a
rake, then drag the third one down both side spars in a letter H formation
(you need 2 people for this), this will give you a perfectly flat 2 inch bed
of sand/cement on a flat sub base, just do enough that you can reach without
standing on the sand and place each flag on the untamped mixture...three
light taps with a large flagging mallet in the centre of each flag as you
lay it and carry on working backwards.

::
:: 2. I thought we would do the patio 1st. Do I need to 'box in' the sand I
:: put down so that when I lay the slabs the sand at the edges doesn't
:: trickle away over time? There will be edging (still undecided on what
:: exactly) all round the path and between the patio and the lawn but I'm
:: not sure what to do where the patio meets the gravel path.
::

Lay as above, but put extra cement at the edges, none of it sets absolutely
rock hard but it stops the sand from washing away, allows drainage and stops
mining insects from undermining the flags

:: 3. Does my plan above look okay? Have I missed anything? Incidentally,
:: I'll let the price settle the membrane/fabric argument - if it's cheap
:: enough I'll use it anyway, if it's expensive enough I'll consider it a
:: waste of time.
::
It's a waste of time anyway, most weeds in paths and patios are what come
from above (seeds delivered by the wind and birds etc) - all flagged areas
will get weeds, even if you lay them on a foot of solid concrete, the gaps
between fill with dust and seeds and the rest is history.


HTH

--
If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs.

Phil L wrote:

the gaps between fill with dust and seeds and the rest is
history.


Unless propely mortar pointed!

pk

p.k. wrote:
Phil L wrote:

the gaps between fill with dust and seeds and the rest is
history.



Unless propely mortar pointed!

pk



Thanks all - I'll take all that on board and amend my plans accordingly.
It has to be said that I've changed the plans several times already as
new information comes to light - perhaps I'd better just get on with it
before winter sets in! Thanks for all your help so far - I'll no doubt
be back.

Iain

p.k. wrote:
:: Phil L wrote:
::::::
::: the gaps between fill with dust and seeds and the rest is
::: history.
::
::
:: Unless propely mortar pointed!
::
:: pk

It doesn't work...within 12 months and after each flag has expanded and
contracted, there's a hair line crack around each one, this is where the
seeds get down, I don't point between paving flags anymore, I just lay them
butt-up to each other, keeping the joints skin tight and tell customers to
treat twice per year with sodioum chlorate, as they should with any paved
surface.

--
If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs.