I bought some "organic" growbags from a well known DIY chain (I won't name
it, but the sort of place you might buy a BarbeQue). I didn't specifically
want organic, but it was all they had and it was the same price as the
normal bags.

It seems similar to the wood chippings you can buy as a mulch, except that
the growbag is ground a bit finer, and has been rotted down a little bit.

The problem is, like the wood chips, the growbags have a very strong,
characteristic smell, which seems to me like creosote or similar. Now that
may be all well and good for a flower bed mulch, but I don't really fancy
growing tomatoes in it and eating them!

Has anyone else used these grow bags, what do you think? You cannot miss the
smell, am I mistaken in thinking it is wood preservative?

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:17:11 +0100, "anon" wrote:

I bought some "organic" growbags from a well known DIY chain (I won't name
it, but the sort of place you might buy a BarbeQue). I didn't specifically
want organic, but it was all they had and it was the same price as the
normal bags.

It seems similar to the wood chippings you can buy as a mulch, except that
the growbag is ground a bit finer, and has been rotted down a little bit.

The problem is, like the wood chips, the growbags have a very strong,
characteristic smell, which seems to me like creosote or similar. Now that
may be all well and good for a flower bed mulch, but I don't really fancy
growing tomatoes in it and eating them!

Has anyone else used these grow bags, what do you think? You cannot miss the
smell, am I mistaken in thinking it is wood preservative?

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.

I've got a couple of these bags - I'm quite happy to say I bought them
at B&Q.
I wasn't that impressed with the quality of the product on sight - as
you say, it looks like so much chipped wood - but I duly wetted the
bags down and planted toms in them, and a week later everything seems
to be fine ( so far ).
As to the preservative query, I noted ( I think ) a HDRA logo on the
bag - or at least an endorsement - so I think it highly unlikely that
there's anything untoward in the contents.

I very much doubt they're made with creosoted wood chips...it's not
really the sort of thing you'd want to get near plants.

If in doubt, ask 'em.



Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article , Stephen Howard
writes
As to the preservative query, I noted ( I think ) a HDRA logo on the
bag - or at least an endorsement - so I think it highly unlikely that
there's anything untoward in the contents.

Could I ask you to check that logo or endorsement Stephen. AFAIK HDRA
are not yet authorised to issue organic certification for commercial
purposes, although they are moving towards that status. TIA
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article , anon
writes

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.
I agree with Stephen Howard that it is most unlikely that B&Q would sell
growbags as organic if they contain creosote treated wood chips, because
creosote is banned for use in organic horticulture.

All substances can have a chemical analysis denoting the elements they
contain, but 'chemical' in the context of organic gardening means
manufactured or processed fertilisers, insecticides, herbicides,
fungicides and the like. Organic growbags should contain none of those.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:17:11 +0100, "anon" wrote:

I bought some "organic" growbags from a well known DIY chain (I won't name
it, but the sort of place you might buy a BarbeQue). I didn't specifically
want organic, but it was all they had and it was the same price as the
normal bags.

It seems similar to the wood chippings you can buy as a mulch, except that
the growbag is ground a bit finer, and has been rotted down a little bit.

The problem is, like the wood chips, the growbags have a very strong,
characteristic smell, which seems to me like creosote or similar. Now that
may be all well and good for a flower bed mulch, but I don't really fancy
growing tomatoes in it and eating them!

Creosote or oil of wintergreen? You tend to get the latter in composted
bark and twiglets from commercial forestry. The smell is strongest when
the heaps first heat up and start to steam.

Has anyone else used these grow bags, what do you think? You cannot miss the
smell, am I mistaken in thinking it is wood preservative?

I haven't smelt one this year, but my guess is based on living near
forests where the stuff (or something similar is produced).

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.

I've got a couple of these bags - I'm quite happy to say I bought them
at B&Q.
I wasn't that impressed with the quality of the product on sight - as
you say, it looks like so much chipped wood - but I duly wetted the
bags down and planted toms in them, and a week later everything seems
to be fine ( so far ).
As to the preservative query, I noted ( I think ) a HDRA logo on the
bag - or at least an endorsement - so I think it highly unlikely that
there's anything untoward in the contents.

The Henry Doublespeak organisation exists mainly to help the Organic(TM)
industry and supermarkets to fleece the worried well. It is highly
unlikely that there are any bad *synthetic* chemicals in a product that
they endorse, but natural toxins are plentiful in the environment.

I very much doubt they're made with creosoted wood chips...it's not
really the sort of thing you'd want to get near plants.

Creosote would kill most plant roots. Wintergreen or methyl salicylate
in high concentrations will not do them all that much much good either.
You can smell it in pretty low concentrations so it should be OK.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:04:10 +0100, Alan Gould
wrote:

In article , Stephen Howard
writes
As to the preservative query, I noted ( I think ) a HDRA logo on the
bag - or at least an endorsement - so I think it highly unlikely that
there's anything untoward in the contents.

Could I ask you to check that logo or endorsement Stephen. AFAIK HDRA
are not yet authorised to issue organic certification for commercial
purposes, although they are moving towards that status. TIA

I'll have a another peek. I really only glanced at it as I was
manhandling the bags into the greenhouse.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:42:30 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
snip
I've got a couple of these bags - I'm quite happy to say I bought them
at B&Q.
I wasn't that impressed with the quality of the product on sight - as
you say, it looks like so much chipped wood - but I duly wetted the
bags down and planted toms in them, and a week later everything seems
to be fine ( so far ).
As to the preservative query, I noted ( I think ) a HDRA logo on the
bag - or at least an endorsement - so I think it highly unlikely that
there's anything untoward in the contents.

The Henry Doublespeak organisation exists mainly to help the Organic(TM)
industry and supermarkets to fleece the worried well. It is highly
unlikely that there are any bad *synthetic* chemicals in a product that
they endorse, but natural toxins are plentiful in the environment.

All the more reason for not adding any more then.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:17:11 +0100, "anon" wrote:

I bought some "organic" growbags from a well known DIY chain (I won't
name
it, but the sort of place you might buy a BarbeQue). I didn't
specifically
want organic, but it was all they had and it was the same price as the
normal bags.

It seems similar to the wood chippings you can buy as a mulch, except
that
the growbag is ground a bit finer, and has been rotted down a little
bit.

The problem is, like the wood chips, the growbags have a very strong,
characteristic smell, which seems to me like creosote or similar. Now
that
may be all well and good for a flower bed mulch, but I don't really
fancy
growing tomatoes in it and eating them!

Creosote or oil of wintergreen? You tend to get the latter in composted
bark and twiglets from commercial forestry. The smell is strongest when
the heaps first heat up and start to steam.

Not sure exactly what the smell is - it is similar to the smell of the
bark/wood chippings you can buy, and also similar to the smell of treated
fence panels. In the case of wood chippings, I had always assumed that they
had been treated to prevent them from rotting too quickly when applied to
the ground. That is why I was disturbed to get the same smell from a
growbag.

Just to clarify, oil of wintergreen - are you saying that this occurs
naturally in composted bark?

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , anon
writes

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that
mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get
away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.
I agree with Stephen Howard that it is most unlikely that B&Q would sell
growbags as organic if they contain creosote treated wood chips, because
creosote is banned for use in organic horticulture.

All substances can have a chemical analysis denoting the elements they
contain, but 'chemical' in the context of organic gardening means
manufactured or processed fertilisers, insecticides, herbicides,
fungicides and the like. Organic growbags should contain none of those.

No dispute that it *shouldn't* contain any of these nasties. Organic salmon
*shouldn't* contain traces of banned green dye.

Things go wrong even with food, and I suspect second order risks (such as
growing materials) get less attention than actual foodstuffs.

I am not sure whether organic actually means anything when applied to
growbags (I know what it ought to mean, but does it?).

I can see the appeal to the manufacturer of using forest by-products (all
the right marketing buzzwords, and, despite using cheaper raw materials, if
you can charge the same price as a normal growbag everyon thinks it is a
bargain).

What I am not sure about is whether any authority looks at an idea like this
to consider whether it is safe to grow vegetables in.

anon wrote:

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Creosote or oil of wintergreen? You tend to get the latter in composted
bark and twiglets from commercial forestry. The smell is strongest when
the heaps first heat up and start to steam.

Just to clarify, oil of wintergreen - are you saying that this occurs
naturally in composted bark?

Yes. And in reasonable amounts if you choose the right species and
mostly stripped bark. It is pretty impressive to find heaps of bark
steaming in the woods in mid-winter and on a still day the smell of it
lingers in the air.

Regards,
Martin Brown

"anon" wrote in message
...
I bought some "organic" growbags from a well known DIY chain (I won't name
it, but the sort of place you might buy a BarbeQue). I didn't specifically
want organic, but it was all they had and it was the same price as the
normal bags.

It seems similar to the wood chippings you can buy as a mulch, except that
the growbag is ground a bit finer, and has been rotted down a little bit.

The problem is, like the wood chips, the growbags have a very strong,
characteristic smell, which seems to me like creosote or similar. Now that
may be all well and good for a flower bed mulch, but I don't really fancy
growing tomatoes in it and eating them!

Has anyone else used these grow bags, what do you think? You cannot miss
the
smell, am I mistaken in thinking it is wood preservative?

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get
away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.


I used these last year. They worked OK but having made holes near the base
of the bags (as instructed) I found that water tended to drain straight
through. Consequently they needed watering more often than peat bags. .

--

Neil

Visit my Peak District walking website - www.peakwalking.co.uk

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:30:55 +0100, "Neil Tonks"
wrote:

"anon" wrote in message
...
I bought some "organic" growbags from a well known DIY chain (I won't name
it, but the sort of place you might buy a BarbeQue). I didn't specifically
want organic, but it was all they had and it was the same price as the
normal bags.

It seems similar to the wood chippings you can buy as a mulch, except that
the growbag is ground a bit finer, and has been rotted down a little bit.

The problem is, like the wood chips, the growbags have a very strong,
characteristic smell, which seems to me like creosote or similar. Now that
may be all well and good for a flower bed mulch, but I don't really fancy
growing tomatoes in it and eating them!

Has anyone else used these grow bags, what do you think? You cannot miss
the
smell, am I mistaken in thinking it is wood preservative?

The growbag claims to have no chemical additives, but what does that mean?
If the raw material is creosote treated wood chips, maybe they can get
away
with saying they haven't added any chemicals.


I used these last year. They worked OK but having made holes near the base
of the bags (as instructed) I found that water tended to drain straight
through. Consequently they needed watering more often than peat bags. .

I forgot to make the holes!
I did wonder whether they'd retain water - but when I checked them the
other day they seemed fine after their initial soaking a week ago.
Mind you, hasn't exactly been that warm until today...

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
anon wrote:

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Creosote or oil of wintergreen? You tend to get the latter in composted
bark and twiglets from commercial forestry. The smell is strongest when
the heaps first heat up and start to steam.

Just to clarify, oil of wintergreen - are you saying that this occurs
naturally in composted bark?

Yes. And in reasonable amounts if you choose the right species and
mostly stripped bark. It is pretty impressive to find heaps of bark
steaming in the woods in mid-winter and on a still day the smell of it
lingers in the air.

Well that is probably what it is then. I guess it builds up in the sealed
bag and smells pretty strong when it is first opened. It seems to have
calmed down a bit after several days.

Still, just because this chemical is produced naturally doesn't necessarily
mean that it is harmless to grow vegetables in it. Hopefully the
concentartion is too low to be a concern.

In article , anon
writes

I am not sure whether organic actually means anything when applied to
growbags (I know what it ought to mean, but does it?).

The use of the expression 'organic' as applied to horticulture is
complex and much misunderstood. It came into use about 50-60 years ago
when horticulture and agriculture were rapidly changing from what had
been 'traditional' methods to more modern methods which rely heavily on
the use of chemicals. 'Organic' was and still is meant to indicate the
use of living organisms as distinct from using inert chemicals. It
applies to grow bags as much as any other product.

What I am not sure about is whether any authority looks at an idea like this
to consider whether it is safe to grow vegetables in.
Yes, very much so. Organic standards are developed in the EU as part of
their Food and Agriculture policies. Participating countries such as UK
are responsible to see that those standards are adhered to. No produce
can be sold in UK as organic unless it has an accredited certification.

Commercial growers and producers are bound by law to keep to organic
regulations. That is monitored in UK mainly by the Soil Association at
Bristol, who are authorised to issue and monitor certifications.
Recreational gardeners are not legally bound by organic regulations, but
for those who wish to maintain the recognised standards of organic
gardening, HDRA give guidance and advice, based on EU regulations where
they are applicable.

Further details about organic gardening can be seen in the urg FAQ at:
http://www.nugget.demon.co.uk/MetaFA...gardening.html
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

anon wrote:

Still, just because this chemical is produced naturally doesn't necessarily
mean that it is harmless to grow vegetables in it. Hopefully the
concentartion is too low to be a concern.

In this particular case I think the worst that will happen is that the
roots will be less willing to enter the compost.

Regards,
Martin Brown