I have got into gardening over the last two years. I am planning some
re-building work and have put most of my plants into pots-upto dustbin size.
However I used B&Q type compost rather than garden soil-some black soil but
all based on heavy clay-to avoid weeds.One or two years down the line many
plants are suffering.I know watering is more required for pots , but I am
begining to suspect that the bought -in compost is not really upto the job.
Any comments please.

spakker wrote:
I have got into gardening over the last two years. I am planning
some
re-building work and have put most of my plants into pots-upto
dustbin size. However I used B&Q type compost rather than garden
soil-some black soil but all based on heavy clay-to avoid weeds.One
or two years down the line many plants are suffering.I know
watering
is more required for pots , but I am begining to suspect that the
bought -in compost is not really upto the job. Any comments please.

The compost's probably exhausted: the nutrients they put in it don't
last long, and the compost itself won't have any food value. If you
start giving a regular liquid feed (Phostrogen or B&Q's own brand,
whatever's cheap), just follow the instructions on the packet and
your plants should perk up. As you say, plants in containers do need
regular watering.

If a peat-like growing medium has been allowed to dry out, it can be
very hard to get it wet again, and plants may not get enough water
even if you attend to them regularly. In that case, a drop of
washing-up liquid in the water will help it soak in; best to stand
the container in something for an hour or so to let water come up
from the bottom as well as the top.

Silly question, but just in case, and no offence meant: the
containers do all have good drainage holes, don't they?

Some of the plants may now need repotting in fresh mixture and maybe
a rather bigger pot.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
spakker wrote:
I have got into gardening over the last two years. I am planning
some
re-building work and have put most of my plants into pots-upto
well as the top.

Silly question, but just in case, and no offence meant: the
containers do all have good drainage holes, don't they?

Some of the plants may now need repotting in fresh mixture and maybe
a rather bigger pot.

--
Mike.
Thanks for reply -I did nearly kill a fatsia japonica by omitting drainage
holes -but it has recovered - I've the B&Q type fertilizer and maybe I
should apply it more often-. Pots range upto bigger than half - dustbin
size-tubs with rope handles. The washing - up liquid method to wet dry soil
sounds good -is the washing-up liquid harmful?

On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:41:41 +0100, "spakker"
wrote:

However I used B&Q type compost

When you say "B&Q type, is it soil based like John Innes or soil-less
like grow-bag compost? Even B&Q sell different types of compot.
Long-term plantings are much better in a soil-based compost; there's
more body and better drainage usually. As Mike says, peat based
composts can dry out more easily and can also get more waterlogged.
You need to investigate and see which it might be.

Pam in Bristol

spakker wrote:
[...]
Thanks for reply -I did nearly kill a fatsia japonica by omitting
drainage holes -but it has recovered - I've the B&Q type fertilizer
and maybe I should apply it more often-. Pots range upto bigger
than
half - dustbin size-tubs with rope handles. The washing - up liquid
method to wet dry soil sounds good -is the washing-up liquid
harmful?

In the tiny quantity needed to make it simply a wetting agent it
won't do any harm, and may even do a smidgen of good. Another
approach is to dump those unusably small slivers of soap in the
watering-can and leave them the this will foam less than
washing-up liquid as well as being less wasteful than just chucking
it away. It can block the spout, though. Neither is infallible, but a
bit better than plain water.

(OT sad story. I met a poet who'd found his watering-can blocked, and
on investigation discovered a dead bird jammed in the spout. The poor
thing had got into the can, and apparently tried to panic its way out
to the light it could see at the end, and got stuck. He wrote a poem
about it: that's professionalism!)

--
Mike.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:19:21 +0000, Mike Lyle wrote
(in message ):

spakker wrote:
I have got into gardening over the last two years. I am planning
some
re-building work and have put most of my plants into pots-upto
dustbin size. However I used B&Q type compost rather than garden
soil-some black soil but all based on heavy clay-to avoid weeds.One
or two years down the line many plants are suffering.I know
watering
is more required for pots , but I am begining to suspect that the
bought -in compost is not really upto the job. Any comments please.

The compost's probably exhausted: the nutrients they put in it don't
last long, and the compost itself won't have any food value. If you
start giving a regular liquid feed (Phostrogen or B&Q's own brand,
whatever's cheap), just follow the instructions on the packet and
your plants should perk up. As you say, plants in containers do need
regular watering.

snip

Any recommendations for the best compost type for garden plants when grown
(outdoors) in containers? Should they be potted in a peat-type compost, a
loam-type compost or in sterile topsoil? And is there any real difference
between the last two?

I still don't really understand the differences between the peat-type and the
loam-type. I've read that the latter holds water better/longer and so plants
don't need so much water, but I don't get the other differences, such as
which type holds nutrients longer, or what other advantages/disadvantages
they have.

--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

VX wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:19:21 +0000, Mike Lyle wrote
(in message ):

spakker wrote:
I have got into gardening over the last two years. I am planning
some
re-building work and have put most of my plants into pots-upto
dustbin size. However I used B&Q type compost rather than garden
soil-some black soil but all based on heavy clay-to avoid
weeds.One
or two years down the line many plants are suffering.I know
watering
is more required for pots , but I am begining to suspect that the
bought -in compost is not really upto the job. Any comments
please.

The compost's probably exhausted: the nutrients they put in it
don't
last long, and the compost itself won't have any food value. If
you
start giving a regular liquid feed (Phostrogen or B&Q's own brand,
whatever's cheap), just follow the instructions on the packet and
your plants should perk up. As you say, plants in containers do
need
regular watering.

snip

Any recommendations for the best compost type for garden plants
when
grown (outdoors) in containers? Should they be potted in a
peat-type
compost, a loam-type compost or in sterile topsoil? And is there
any
real difference between the last two?

I still don't really understand the differences between the
peat-type
and the loam-type. I've read that the latter holds water
better/longer and so plants don't need so much water, but I don't
get
the other differences, such as which type holds nutrients longer,
or
what other advantages/disadvantages they have.

I'm for the loam type. They don't hold as much water as peat or
compost-based ones, but they're easier to wet, which more than makes
up for it. They have a few trace elements which the others lack; but
still need to have regular feeds of liquid manure or the stuff out of
a packet.

If you've got some nice topsoil, it'll probably be fine; but it's
very very variable. I'd tend to mix it with some peat or compost for
water-retention. Guesswork has always served me well enough, but I
suppose one peaty stuff to two of topsoil would be near enough for
jazz. If you've got any grit, sling in a bit of that, too: maybe half
as much as the peat. If the soil's got a lot of grit in it already,
let's say three soil to one peat. This barbaric approximation isn't
at all unlike John Innes mixture. Do it your own way: the plants
won't mind. You can get fussy when you've built up some more
experience and feel ready to take on some more ticklish plants.

--
Mike.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:01:27 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote
(in message ):

Any recommendations for the best compost type for garden plants
when
grown (outdoors) in containers?

I'm for the loam type. They don't hold as much water as peat or
compost-based ones, but they're easier to wet, which more than makes
up for it. They have a few trace elements which the others lack; but
still need to have regular feeds of liquid manure or the stuff out of
a packet.

If you've got some nice topsoil, it'll probably be fine; but it's
very very variable. I'd tend to mix it with some peat or compost for
water-retention. Guesswork has always served me well enough, but I
suppose one peaty stuff to two of topsoil would be near enough for
jazz. If you've got any grit, sling in a bit of that, too: maybe half
as much as the peat. If the soil's got a lot of grit in it already,
let's say three soil to one peat. This barbaric approximation isn't
at all unlike John Innes mixture. Do it your own way: the plants
won't mind. You can get fussy when you've built up some more
experience and feel ready to take on some more ticklish plants.

Thanks for that, topsoil or loamy-type it is then. Guesswork is a valuable
thing when it works, I need to do that more. I'm also ordering a couple of
books on container gardening, just so I have some reference material. As I
type this I feel a sudden growing fascination with container gardening-
oooops.....



--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

VX wrote in
s.com:

I still don't really understand the differences between the peat-type
and the loam-type. I've read that the latter holds water better/longer
and so plants don't need so much water, but I don't get the other
differences, such as which type holds nutrients longer, or what other
advantages/disadvantages they have.

Peat-type potting composts are entirely composed of organic matter - ie,
mostly-rotted or broken down bark, coir, or other sorts of vegetation.
(I once had some brilliant potting compost made from brewery waste -
excellent stuff!)

The ingredients can vary quite a lot. For example, kitchen waste is
mostly leftovers of stuff you fancied eating with your soft human
digestive system, so compost made from that tends to be very rich and
gooey like chocolate cake.

Potting compost made from fibrous things like straw or coir or hedge
trimmings is usually less rich and gooey, but tends to be longer
lasting. I mix compost from my wormery with a coir block or 2 to make
potting compost that is really good for hanging baskets - not so good
for long-term plantings like box in pots.

Organic matter is good at absorbing moisture and holding air too, so
roots can easily grow through it and get plenty to drink and breath.

This stuff is sort of living in a way - if you let it dry out
completely, it loses its structure, and also any minute organisms living
in it die off, so it goes all hard and it's very difficult to get it
back to how it should be.

A lot of the things used to make compost, such as peat or coir, don't
contain all the trace elements plants need to grow, so these are often
added by the manufacturers, and after a bit they get washed away or used
up.

Organic matter, being just rotted-down leaves/bark/veg/straw/whatever,
goes on breaking down gently all the time. (It is mostly just carbon and
oxygen mixed up until it becomes a sort of All Bran, so it can easily
rot down to make carbon dioxide and just drift away as a gas).


So a potful of peat-type compost will slowly get smaller and smaller as
the organic matter in it decays, and even if you feed a liquid feed,
you'll also need to top up with more compost.

Loam type compost contains organic matter (it's often made by mixing a
peat-type or garden compost with other things), but it also contains
tiny ground-up bits of rock (sand or even clay), like normal garden soil
does.

Because these bits are hard and more or less inert, they don't lose
their volume when they are dehydrated like purely organic (peaty)
compost does, they can help with drainage as the compost doesn't become
so much of a soggy lump, and they can also release trace minerals over
a much longer timescale than the fertilisers added to peat-like compost
tend to.

However, because it has these tiny bits of rock in it, loam-based
compost can be heavier than peat-only compost, so I find it can be a
pain in situations where you want lightness - hanging baskets for
example, or big pots that need to be light enough to move.

Although loamy compost does reduce in size as the organic matter breaks
down, it doesn't do so as much or as fast as the stuff that is all
organic material with no sand/loam/clay.

Thus, loam-based composts are often good for things like trees that will
be in their pots a long time with just a top dressing or a liquid feed
from time to time.

I have found that most commercial loam-type / John Innes potting
composts contain peat - if you want to avoid using peat in your garden,
you may be stuck with the 'peat-type' alternatives such as coir or bark-
based composts. These have improved a lot recently, but I think could
still be better. They often aren't rotted down enough, or they are made
of very fibrous things like bark that tend to be dry and lacking in
nutrition even when well-rotted.

This is one good reason I have found to have a wormery for kichen waste
- I can then use the worm debris to make really good peat-free potting
compost with no weed seeds in it, and the worm wee to water and feed
pots that might otherwise be struggling because the bought potting
compost in them is a bit light on nutrients.

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:33:00 +0100, Victoria Clare wrote
(in message . 23):

much valuable stuff snipped

This is one good reason I have found to have a wormery for kichen waste
- I can then use the worm debris to make really good peat-free potting
compost with no weed seeds in it, and the worm wee to water and feed
pots that might otherwise be struggling because the bought potting
compost in them is a bit light on nutrients.

Victoria

Thanks for the compost explanation- now I think I actually understand what's
going on!

I've been thinking about getting a wormery- it just seems like such a clever
idea. Is there any particular commercially available wormery that would be a
recommended buy, or are they generally similar?


--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

VX wrote in
s.com:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:33:00 +0100, Victoria Clare wrote
(in message . 23):

much valuable stuff snipped

This is one good reason I have found to have a wormery for kichen
waste - I can then use the worm debris to make really good peat-free
potting compost with no weed seeds in it, and the worm wee to water
and feed pots that might otherwise be struggling because the bought
potting compost in them is a bit light on nutrients.

Victoria

Thanks for the compost explanation- now I think I actually understand
what's going on!

I've been thinking about getting a wormery- it just seems like such a
clever idea. Is there any particular commercially available wormery
that would be a recommended buy, or are they generally similar?


The general feeling of many posters in this newsgroup is usually that
bought wormeries are expensive and unnecessary.

However, I like my bought wormery, as it is dead easy to manage and
empty, and I am both too lazy to build one, and too inept to build a
really solid one. ;-)

I would suggest going for the sort that has several trays and a
reservoir at the bottom - I haven't tried the sort that is just one big
bin with a tap on it, but I understand they are a bit more difficult to
keep from waterlogging, by all accounts.

It's a good idea to add a sheet or two of damp newspaper from time to
time, particularly if you are putting in a lot of soft stuff, or to
quell an outbreak of horrid little flies.

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--