Hi all,

I lurk here often but don't usually contribute as I am not a very
knowledgeable gardener. I am looking for a bit of advice with regard to
rats!

We have two compost heaps side by side at the back of the garden near a
fence. The heaps are made of pallets and are open on the top. I only
ever compost raw fruit and vegetable waste as well as the usual garden
stuff.

Today, we have spotted two rats feeding on the heap. They then
disappeared under the fence but I am not sure if they are living in or
near the heap, or whether they are just visiting for a feed. They must
be living nearby.

The area around the heaps is untidy and needs a good clear out. It is
possible they are living there. Should I have a good clear out and see
what I find? I was going to empty the heaps shortly and spread any
compost that is ready over the garden. I am a bit worried about what
I'll find (a whole nest of them?) and of catching some nasty rat-borne
disease.

What should I do, and how can I make the compost heaps less attractive
for rats in future?

Thanks for listening.
--
Regards
Colette

On 7/3/05 12:28, in article , "Colette A.
O'Brien" wrote:

snip

Today, we have spotted two rats feeding on the heap. They then
disappeared under the fence but I am not sure if they are living in or
near the heap, or whether they are just visiting for a feed. They must
be living nearby.

If you've seen two the potential is that there are many more around or will
be when they breed! I had the same problem in an old garden and within days
saw several more.

The area around the heaps is untidy and needs a good clear out. It is
possible they are living there. Should I have a good clear out and see
what I find? I was going to empty the heaps shortly and spread any
compost that is ready over the garden. I am a bit worried about what
I'll find (a whole nest of them?) and of catching some nasty rat-borne
disease.

If you go the clear out route (which I would) wear sturdy rubber gloves and
wellies. Weil's disease contracted from rat urine is very nasty. If you
think you can kill them yourself, all well and good, if you don't, get
someone in to do the clear out and kill for you. Having a couple of
terriers standing by isn't a bad idea, either! After you've done your clean
up, get the local council to come and put down rat poison in safe 'feeders'
which will protect domestic pets or other wildlife from picking it up. If
they won't, get a contractor who will probably make two visits for safety's
sake. I'd get him to check outhouses and possibly the attic, too. Check the
area regularly for any further infestations.

What should I do, and how can I make the compost heaps less attractive
for rats in future?

I wouldn't make a new heap until you're sure you've got rid of the rats
altogether. And then make sure absolutely nothing meaty or even eggy goes
onto it. That said, rats eat almost anything and I've seen them going up a
fig tree after the fruit! If you can, it might be a good idea to make it in
a different area so that you can keep an eye on the present one, just in
case you don't get all the rats this time.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 7/3/05 12:28, in article , "Colette A.
O'Brien" wrote:

snip

Today, we have spotted two rats feeding on the heap. They then
disappeared under the fence but I am not sure if they are living in or
near the heap, or whether they are just visiting for a feed. They must
be living nearby.



If you go the clear out route (which I would) wear sturdy rubber gloves
and
wellies. Weil's disease contracted from rat urine is very nasty. If you
think you can kill them yourself, all well and good, if you don't, get
someone in to do the clear out and kill for you. Having a couple of
terriers standing by isn't a bad idea, either! After you've done your
clean
up, get the local council to come and put down rat poison in safe
'feeders'
which will protect domestic pets or other wildlife from picking it up. If
they won't, get a contractor who will probably make two visits for
safety's
sake. I'd get him to check outhouses and possibly the attic, too. Check
the
area regularly for any further infestations.

What should I do, and how can I make the compost heaps less attractive
for rats in future?

I wouldn't make a new heap until you're sure you've got rid of the rats
altogether. And then make sure absolutely nothing meaty or even eggy goes
onto it. That said, rats eat almost anything and I've seen them going up a
fig tree after the fruit! If you can, it might be a good idea to make it
in
a different area so that you can keep an eye on the present one, just in
case you don't get all the rats this time.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

We discovered the rats had got into our black bin type composter by
burrowing under, but the monkeys had eaten all the worms and left the veg
peelings!! I suspect yours are not living in it at this time of year but
just visiting for "lunch" once you cut of the food supply they will go
elsewhere.
I just went around the edge of ours and inserted slates vertically then laid
a path of bricks around to stop them digging, they have not been back.
In your shoes I would use the compost, tidy the area, then start afresh with
a rat proof compost heap, you can get subsidised ones from the local
councils. Sasha's remarks re gloves are a sensible precaution.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

birdfoods ect should be stored in a really strong lidded container and
no spills left lying around.

Janet.

Now I would expect YOU of all people to spell "etc" correctly

tut tut

:-))

Colette A. O'Brien wrote:
:: Hi all,
::
:: I lurk here often but don't usually contribute as I am not a very
:: knowledgeable gardener. I am looking for a bit of advice with
:: regard to rats!
::
:: We have two compost heaps side by side at the back of the garden
:: near a fence. The heaps are made of pallets and are open on the
:: top. I only ever compost raw fruit and vegetable waste as well as
:: the usual garden stuff.
::

It's the fruit and veg they are after, it would be wise to partially compost
these in a sealed plastic bucket which could then be emptied onto the heap
periodically, once they have broken down and stopped being food.

:: Today, we have spotted two rats feeding on the heap. They then
:: disappeared under the fence but I am not sure if they are living
:: in or near the heap, or whether they are just visiting for a feed.
:: They must be living nearby.
::
They are visiting, your heap is the local rodent cafe.
You can clear the heap, kill the rats, put down poison and be as vigilant as
you like, none of it will make a blind bit of difference, as long as there
is food (fruit and veg) on site, it will continue to be used as a port of
call for every passing rat.
Personally, I can't see the problem, they are walking and pi**ing all over
the garden anyway and that includes any vegetables you might be growing, the
only time they become a problem is when they get out of control and with an
unlimited supply of free food they soon will, making a nuisance of
themselves only through their numbers and so I disregard poisoning as an
option and favour the removal of their feed, once this has gone they will
simply go somewhere else.


:: The area around the heaps is untidy and needs a good clear out. It
:: is possible they are living there. Should I have a good clear out
:: and see what I find? I was going to empty the heaps shortly and
:: spread any compost that is ready over the garden. I am a bit
:: worried about what I'll find (a whole nest of them?) and of
:: catching some nasty rat-borne disease.
::
You won't disturb a nest of rats unless the heap is dry and covered, rats
are pretty much like us, they like warm and dry places to live, although
millions of sewer rats don't mind getting wet if they are likely to get a
good meal, their nests are not where water can reach them or dampness affect
their young...if your heap is a dried out, sheltered one, I would suggest
removing the top and drenching with water a few days prior to disturbing it
as a nursing mother has been known to sink teeth *deep* into the flesh in
protecting her litter and will not let go.


:: What should I do, and how can I make the compost heaps less
:: attractive for rats in future?

no food, or if you insist on (fairly fresh) fruit and veg, a sealed
unit....high sides and solid building materials such as paving flags /could/
keep them at bay but unless it's got a lid too rats *will* get in, they are
good climbers and can jump three feet directly upwards.

--

http://www.blueyonder256k.myby.co.uk/

On 7/3/05 17:51, in article , "Janet
Baraclough" wrote:

The message
from Sacha contains these words:

I wouldn't make a new heap until you're sure you've got rid of the rats
altogether. And then make sure absolutely nothing meaty or even eggy goes
onto it. That said, rats eat almost anything and I've seen them going up a
fig tree after the fruit! If you can, it might be a good idea to make it in
a different area so that you can keep an eye on the present one, just in
case you don't get all the rats this time.

No point, unless she's nocturnal :-). Rats are everywhere in rural
and urban UK, we just don't see them often because they mostly move
around at night.

The ones I had can't have read the books then. They were all-too-visible in
broad daylight!

No amount of poisoning will make someone's garden or
street a rat-free zone for longer than a day or so. Unless the compost
heap is very dry, it's unlikely they are nesting in it. I would empty
and use it as planned, and as they don't like disturbance you can be
pretty certain of not surprising them at their lunch. Wear gloves by all
means, but one is far more likely to become infected with Weill's
Disease from dabbling in garden pondwater than from a compost heap.

But IF the compost heap is wet..... I think as a precaution I would
certainly wear gloves. It's quite possible they're nesting in next door's
garden, her compost heap or somewhere in whatever is around and about. But
we have poison put down every 6 weeks here right through the breeding season
because of mice, mainly but also in case of rats. In my old garden, I don't
recall having to do the poison thing more than twice in 8 years in that
house but we did get rid of that compost heap and the grass was mown
regularly. A little later, I saw rats running across the lawn much closer
to the house and disappearing up a drainpipe which really did bother me!
Some poison in the attic of what was a small annexe soon dealt with that.
snip
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In message of Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Sacha writes
No point, unless she's nocturnal :-). Rats are everywhere in rural
and urban UK, we just don't see them often because they mostly move
around at night.

The ones I had can't have read the books then. They were all-too-visible in
broad daylight!

The pair today were happily gambolling about in broad daylight. Earlier,
when I had spotted just one, I was only a few feet away from it and it
kept on nibbling its breakfast. It was only when I moved that it
scampered off.

But IF the compost heap is wet..... I think as a precaution I would
certainly wear gloves. It's quite possible they're nesting in next door's
garden, her compost heap or somewhere in whatever is around and about.

Thanks very much Sacha and all who replied. It has made interesting and
rather chilling reading!

I have decided that I will clear the entire area this weekend and
dismantle both heaps. I will ensure I wear gloves etc for protection. In
case the rats are nesting in my 'untidy area' on in the heap itself
(both of which are really quite dry) I will soak the whole place
thoroughly every day until then.

Since I throw out a great deal of fruit/veg peelings I am rethinking my
composting. The heaps were very ugly anyway (have meant for ages to
build a screening fence of some sort).

I have googled a tumbling composter called an envirocycle tumbler. It is
very expensive (about 120 pounds) but you can add to it over a period of
weeks, tumble it several times a week and then empty it. I could empty
it elsewhere to further break down once it is no longer recognisably
food. It also makes a liquid feed from the run-off which can be diluted
and used as plant food.

Has anyone here had experience of this composter?

You all are pretty much of the opinion that while there is food
available the rats will come looking for it, so I want to eliminate the
food source. This tumbler would do this for me and speed up the
composting process a bit.

Thanks again for all your help.
--
Colette A. O'Brien

In article ,
Charlie Pridham wrote:

We discovered the rats had got into our black bin type composter by
burrowing under, but the monkeys had eaten all the worms and left the veg
peelings!! I suspect yours are not living in it at this time of year but
just visiting for "lunch" once you cut of the food supply they will go
elsewhere.

Cripes. I knew that you were warmer than Cambridge, but I didn't
know that you had feral monkeys.

Anyway, don't worry about the meat/egg/vegetable content unless it
happens to work for you. Rats will eat anything, and are attracted
as much by the worms as anything, and any serious heap has worms.
In my case, I chuck on all meat residue and it has no attactive
effect whatsoever.

The thing that does make the difference is turning the heap over, as
rats don't like the disturbance. Otherwise, get a rat man in to
poison them (our WONDERFUL government will no longer allow effective
rat poisons to be sold to the peasantry).

If you can tell the difference between our politicians, bureaucrats
and rats, you are clearly a skilled taxonomist.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
Otherwise, get a rat man in to
poison them (our WONDERFUL government will no longer allow effective
rat poisons to be sold to the peasantry).

What makes you say that? I get a very efficient poison from my local ag'
merchant or feed store to put into my bait boxes.

"w.g.s.hamm" fenlandfowl @talktalk.net wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
Otherwise, get a rat man in to
poison them (our WONDERFUL government will no longer allow effective
rat poisons to be sold to the peasantry).

What makes you say that? I get a very efficient poison from my local ag'
merchant or feed store to put into my bait boxes.


Actually with one exception the same bait is available to amateurs as the
council .........its the form of bait you use and the way you use it thats
crucial

Antec who make Tomcat 2 also do a block bait which you can secure and is
much easier to see how much the pests are eating also their farm
applications expert if you phone him is excellent in giving advice

Once i did what he said the rat problem disapeared

its vital to site all compost bins on solid concrete bases not straight onto
soil

In article ,
"nambucca" writes:
|
| Otherwise, get a rat man in to
| poison them (our WONDERFUL government will no longer allow effective
| rat poisons to be sold to the peasantry).
|
| What makes you say that? I get a very efficient poison from my local ag'
| merchant or feed store to put into my bait boxes.
|
| Actually with one exception the same bait is available to amateurs as the
| council .........its the form of bait you use and the way you use it thats
| crucial

Well, it wasn't so the last time I checked - and I did so in three
ways, including asking the rat man where I could buy bait from.

It is often possible to buy things from agricultural merchants that
they are not strictly allowed to sell to amateurs. For utterly
insane reasons, this includes Savona (liquid horticultural soap);
luckily, it is not an offence to say that you are a professional.

| its vital to site all compost bins on solid concrete bases not straight onto
| soil

No, it isn't. It doesn't even help significantly, unless you are
going to completely enclose them in ratproof metal mesh.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message of Mon, 14 Mar 2005, nambucca writes
Actually with one exception the same bait is available to amateurs as the
council .........its the form of bait you use and the way you use it thats
crucial

Antec who make Tomcat 2 also do a block bait which you can secure and is
much easier to see how much the pests are eating also their farm
applications expert if you phone him is excellent in giving advice

Once i did what he said the rat problem disapeared

its vital to site all compost bins on solid concrete bases not straight onto
soil

Well our compost heaps are on soil and I spent a lot of time over the
weekend emptying them and tidying up the whole area. The rats had
tunnelled their way into the bottom of one heap and were using that for
access to both heaps but I don't think they were actually living in it.
Not sure where they are living, though there is at least one in next
door's heap.

I have re-filled one heap with compost that is not quite done but none
of the contents are edible. The rats are still about, there were two
here this morning searching the garden for food, and coming much nearer
the house than they used to. I am buying a new compost bin that will rot
the contents down fairly quickly, then I will transfer the contents once
inedible to the main heaps.

A pest control man from the council is coming tomorrow, I'll let you
know how it all pans out.
--
Rgds
Colette

In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
|
| Well, it wasn't so the last time I checked - and I did so in three
| ways, including asking the rat man where I could buy bait from.
|
| Well, now you know. Pest-catchers have a vested interest in
| dissuading amateurs from exterminating their livelihood :-)

That is why I cross-checked.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.