In article , Janet Baraclough
wrote:

Why should garden programmes have to endure
presenters whose experience/expertise is so inferior to the average
sports presenter?

I don't think that's true. Most sports presenters know about as much as
the typical viewer who reads the sports pages. And anyway, many sports
presenters are also picked for their looks and voice. Try watching Sky
Sports News where most of the presenters are dolly birds who know very
little of what they speak.

Whether it's gardening, sport or anything else, it boils down to this:
it doesn't matter how much the presenter knows if he can't get his
message across.

Janet Tweedy muttered:

Anne Marie-Powell

0/0/0

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
In article , VivienB
writes

What a picky lot you are! I am listening to *what* they are telling
me, so I can try to judge whether it is likely to be useful. So
long
as they speak clearly, what does the timbre (or whatever it is you
object to) matter? I would much prefer either of these women
telling
me something that I can use, to the decorative and pretty-voiced
ones
going on about something valueless.

Regards, VivienB


But isn't that the essence of a good communicator? I bet there's
loads
of really great gardeners out there but if they deliver the
information
n a voice that has about as much enthusiasm and emotion as if they
were
reading the telephone directory then the joy of their subject won't
be
imparted.

You seem to have forgotten Fred Loads.

[snip]

Franz

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:53:35 -0000, "Des Higgins"
wrote:


I think it is like a "who was your favourite Doctor Who?" type argument.
We all have fond memories of particular eras and individuals and forget the
bad bits.
Geoff Hamilton was in place just as gardening went into super show business
mode in the mid 1990s and many people remember him as a cross between mother
Theresa and Indiana Jones. I certainly have fond memories of Gardeners
World from dem days but that is a mixture of Geoff's personality (warm,
comforting, knowledgeable) and the fact that I was not super-saturated with
TV garden makeoverology at the time. Everyone since Geoff will look cheap
and nasty, no matter who they are. I certainly do find many garden TV
people irritating but that is partly because the entire genre has become
irritating. Somewhere out there a producer is dreamimg up a
reality-TV-garden-makeover-save-the-children-pop-idol-aid program which will
be hosted by Ant and Dec.

Apart from all that, speaking purely subjectively and persoanally, Gay
search was one of the better presenters and I actually like Monty Don a lot
and Titchmarch is very very good but got over-exposed (as he probably
realises himself). Diarmuid Gavin is a bit of fun; I take great delight in
finding people who dislike him because he does not tell you how many ponds
per square foot of hoof and horn to use as a top dressing in late Spring for
boosting leeks. Rachel de Thame has a clear accent and is very eye-catching
but somehow Diarmuid standing in a huge muddy hole in the ground with three
hairy builders from sligo balancing a 19 tonne brass sphere is more
entertaining to me.

Des Higgins




Well well well, so this is where you're hiding Desmond? Can't say I
blame you...
Anyhoo, I have yet to hear anyone mentioning Reg Moule... Long before
TV gardening was fashionable, he was advising the nation (including
our nation, that is) on what to do this month in the garden. He was
as dull as ditchwater, and yet strangely fascinating. And probably
quite informative.
I see here -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire.../january.shtml
- that he is "BBC's Gloucestershire Gardening Guru"... and that he's
still on the go. I just loved his accent. What do the experts here
make of him?

And what about our own (Irish) Gerry Daly? That man's voice is the
very call of rutting mulsh during the mating season. I derive endless
joy listening to his programme on RTE Radio 1, where listeners can ask
just about any question. I just love the differences in approaches of
Gerry and his various panelists. Joe Bloggs rings with a massive
ground elder infestation... Panelist 1 sends him to the garden centre
for some Roundup, while Gerry tututs the nonsense of it all,
ascertains the size of the border concerned, and if it is anything
less than a square mile, advises the man how to dig it up with a good
spade...

I agree with you on Diarmuid Gavin. He is cheeky, but truly
inspirational, and hugely entertaining, because he doesn't take
himself too seriously. I also love the hunk of a project manager Sean
Cunningham (droolll) for the same reason as I enjoy watching Monty Don
(he can grow me a few courgettes anytime he chooses).

For all the important technical stuff, the fact is that the reason
some of us are glued to garden tv shows, is because the presenters are
entertaining. I love ground force, not because I learn much through
it, but because I love the banter between Titchmarch, Dimmock and the
luscious Tommy Walsh :-)
If I need tech advice, I check my RHS books, I google, and I ask
questions of the wonderfully helpful U.R.G. denizens...
Though I must say I am quite amused to read some finding fault with
some tv garden show presenters not on technical grounds, nor on
grounds of entertainment value, but on ground of ACCENT? Hello? Who
cares about the accent, so long as you can understand what is being
said? I can't think of a single presenter I am having trouble
understanding.









Cat(h)
The world swirls...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Stan The Man contains these words:

In article , VivienB
wrote:


What a picky lot you are! I am listening to *what* they are telling
me, so I can try to judge whether it is likely to be useful. So long
as they speak clearly, what does the timbre (or whatever it is you
object to) matter? I would much prefer either of these women telling
me something that I can use, to the decorative and pretty-voiced ones
going on about something valueless.

It matters to the BBC, and every other programme maker because
gardening programmes aren't Open University courses

Neither are sports programmes

but
lifestyle/entertainment shows which, while educating some of us will
entertain others who may be less committed gardeners, casual viewers,
etc. So these days, someone who looks and sounds good will get the
presenting job over someone who may be more knowledgeable.

Why does this not apply to sports programmes?


Of the two
attributes, voice is more important than looks (snip)

Now, who have I forgotten...?

Try sports presenters. Have you ever known one picked for looks/voice
over proven expertise?

Craig Doyle to mention one lately. BBC use him to front all manner of
major ratings events like Rugby internationals and big soccer games. His
only qualifications that I am aware of are his looks, his Irish accent (de
rigeur these days on UK TV astonishingly) and the fact that he used to do
one of the Holiday Programmes.

Why should garden programmes have to endure
presenters whose experience/expertise is so inferior to the average
sports presenter?

Given the market forces at play, it is inevitable. Brilliant but boring
will lose out to dim but vivacious every time.
Most experts sound tedious to most people. You may know the difference but
most viewers will not.
This was why Magnus Pyke was the fact of British science for years rather
than Professor Smith from the Physiology Department in Bradford.

To be honest, garden programmes are pretty well stocked (ho ho) with people
who do know what they are talking about.
Helen Dillon is the best example I know of (Janet Tweedy mentioned her)
although you deprived lot have probably not seen her on TV (she fronted an
Irish TV show a couple of years ago). Who do you hate the most?


Janet

"McCready" wrote in message
. uk...

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Victoria
Clare writes
"JennyC" wrote in :


"andrewpreece" wrote in message
...

I much rather have Chris back than that strange red-bad-haired woman!

Andy

Oh !!
I liked her :~)

She's growing on me - seems to know her stuff, but what a painful voice
that is to listen to. It's like she's gargled gravel.

I didn't even notice!

What accent has she got? Is it something I'm used to?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

I would like to see some of the Radio 4 Gardeners Question time panel in
the show.
Especially Bob Flowerdew.

Aaaaargh; every time I see that name I remember seeing him say on Gardeners
World in the mid 90s saying with a straight face that he only grew plants
that were culinary, medicinal or aphrodisiac. This was with him dressed in
some kind of hand-knitted afghan yoghurt fibre jump suit standing beside a
pile of used tyres that he was using for growing strawberries. Put me off
my takeaway, so it did.

In article , Des Higgins
wrote:

Who do you hate the most?

'Little Britain' -- the most puerile, unfunny 'comedy' show ever made.

.....Oh, you mean TV gardeners? There is none worth hating but I get
annoyed by Monty Don (superiority complex, prone to errors, organic
evangelist), Chris Beardshaw (bland, boring) and Matt James (smug,
over-stylised).

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Des Higgins
wrote:

Who do you hate the most?

'Little Britain' -- the most puerile, unfunny 'comedy' show ever made.

Ho ho. It is over exposed these days. Peculiar looking pair of blokes it
has to be said.


....Oh, you mean TV gardeners? There is none worth hating but I get
annoyed by Monty Don (superiority complex, prone to errors, organic

I got to like him from his column in the Observer (I have no idea if it is
still running). I also read a beginners book by him when I was starting out
(1995) called the Weekend Gardener which was extremely well written and had
plenty of genuinely useful advice. I learned how to make a compost heap
that really made compost and how to dig and how to make a hedge and all
manner of bits and pieces. After that I can forgive him the superiority
complex. I know what you mean though.

evangelist), Chris Beardshaw (bland, boring) and Matt James (smug,
over-stylised).

"Cat" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:53:35 -0000, "Des Higgins"
wrote:


I think it is like a "who was your favourite Doctor Who?" type argument.
We all have fond memories of particular eras and individuals and forget
the
bad bits.
Geoff Hamilton was in place just as gardening went into super show
business
mode in the mid 1990s and many people remember him as a cross between
mother
Theresa and Indiana Jones. I certainly have fond memories of Gardeners
World from dem days but that is a mixture of Geoff's personality (warm,
comforting, knowledgeable) and the fact that I was not super-saturated
with
TV garden makeoverology at the time. Everyone since Geoff will look cheap
and nasty, no matter who they are. I certainly do find many garden TV
people irritating but that is partly because the entire genre has become
irritating. Somewhere out there a producer is dreamimg up a
reality-TV-garden-makeover-save-the-children-pop-idol-aid program which
will
be hosted by Ant and Dec.

Apart from all that, speaking purely subjectively and persoanally, Gay
search was one of the better presenters and I actually like Monty Don a
lot
and Titchmarch is very very good but got over-exposed (as he probably
realises himself). Diarmuid Gavin is a bit of fun; I take great delight
in
finding people who dislike him because he does not tell you how many ponds
per square foot of hoof and horn to use as a top dressing in late Spring
for
boosting leeks. Rachel de Thame has a clear accent and is very
eye-catching
but somehow Diarmuid standing in a huge muddy hole in the ground with
three
hairy builders from sligo balancing a 19 tonne brass sphere is more
entertaining to me.

Des Higgins




Well well well, so this is where you're hiding Desmond? Can't say I
blame you...
Anyhoo, I have yet to hear anyone mentioning Reg Moule... Long before
TV gardening was fashionable, he was advising the nation (including
our nation, that is) on what to do this month in the garden. He was
as dull as ditchwater, and yet strangely fascinating. And probably
quite informative.
I see here -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire.../january.shtml
- that he is "BBC's Gloucestershire Gardening Guru"... and that he's
still on the go. I just loved his accent. What do the experts here
make of him?

And what about our own (Irish) Gerry Daly? That man's voice is the
very call of rutting mulsh during the mating season. I derive endless
joy listening to his programme on RTE Radio 1, where listeners can ask
just about any question. I just love the differences in approaches of
Gerry and his various panelists. Joe Bloggs rings with a massive
ground elder infestation... Panelist 1 sends him to the garden centre
for some Roundup, while Gerry tututs the nonsense of it all,
ascertains the size of the border concerned, and if it is anything
less than a square mile, advises the man how to dig it up with a good
spade...


Holey Saint Imelda, I forgot him. I find his voice a bit dreary. He can
describe a field of poppies in early Summer with exactly the same voice he
would use to describe a root infection and even using similar sentences. He
knows what he is talking about though. Helen Dillon it is all round so far
in this thread.



I agree with you on Diarmuid Gavin. He is cheeky, but truly
inspirational, and hugely entertaining, because he doesn't take
himself too seriously. I also love the hunk of a project manager Sean
Cunningham (droolll) for the same reason as I enjoy watching Monty Don
(he can grow me a few courgettes anytime he chooses).

For all the important technical stuff, the fact is that the reason
some of us are glued to garden tv shows, is because the presenters are
entertaining. I love ground force, not because I learn much through
it, but because I love the banter between Titchmarch, Dimmock and the
luscious Tommy Walsh :-)
If I need tech advice, I check my RHS books, I google, and I ask
questions of the wonderfully helpful U.R.G. denizens...
Though I must say I am quite amused to read some finding fault with
some tv garden show presenters not on technical grounds, nor on
grounds of entertainment value, but on ground of ACCENT? Hello? Who
cares about the accent, so long as you can understand what is being
said? I can't think of a single presenter I am having trouble
understanding.









Cat(h)
The world swirls...

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:03:41 -0000, "Des Higgins"
wrote:

Aaaaargh; every time I see that name I remember seeing him say on Gardeners
World in the mid 90s saying with a straight face that he only grew plants
that were culinary, medicinal or aphrodisiac. This was with him dressed in
some kind of hand-knitted afghan yoghurt fibre jump suit standing beside a
pile of used tyres that he was using for growing strawberries. Put me off
my takeaway, so it did.

Similar picture with the pigtail carefully positioned in last week's
AG.
According to Janet's rating I would give Bob Flowerdew 2/7/8. His
knowledge of organics is second to none, but he needs to study a bit
of Latin in order to pronounce and understand plant names.
I hope he's not reading this. We know they do sometimes, as Jenny
will remember from her never-to-be-forgotten appearances on GQT! LOL

Pam in Bristol

I hope he's not reading this.

You never know who is reading a newsgroup. I have been quite amazed at the
responses I have received from 'lurkers'. Another good group of newsgroup
to go into is uk.local.* and pass comment on a local topic. Ask a question
of the Police, Council or the like and I find things get done. Classic case
a few years back where the Police had FIVE on duty watching and stopping
cars who had been onto, and stopped, on the yellow boxes at a big
complicated roundabout. I asked on the newsgroup how they could justify
this, when only a short while earlier, they 'didn't have enough staff to
investigate a break in at my daughter's house until tomorrow, please leave
everything where it is'.


Never saw such an overload of Police doing that exercise again :-))
A part of the main road was very badly pot marked and I explained on the
newsgroup where it was, and as it was not outside County Hall, no one
bothered. A couple of days later it was done :-))

Newsgroups. Magic :-))

Mike


H.M.S.Collingwood Ass. Llandudno 20 - 23 May Trip to Portmeirion
National Service (RAF) Ass. Cosford 24 - 27 June Spitfire Fly Past
H.M.S.Impregnable Ass. Sussex 1 - 4 July Visit to Int. Fest of the Sea
British Pacific Fleet. Derby 2 - 5 Sept. Visit to Denby Pottery

"Tim Challenger" wrote in message
news:1110206748.7f963abf9dbd5325dcb96918c3768d2f@t eranews...
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:14:20 +0000 (UTC), jane wrote:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:01:18 GMT, "McCready"
wrote:

~What happened to Chris Beardshaw?
~
~Monty hasn't mentioned why he's disappeared.
~
Poached by the opposition I think, which is fairy snuff since the Beeb
poached Monty off C4... Fair swap to me - now all they have to do is
get rid of all the other pretties and leave just the plantspeople and
stop doing the garden tours in favour of practical stuff and I'll be
happy.

Talking of practical, anyone want to chat about the new-style BBC GW
Magazine? I opened my April one yesterday and was extremely pleasantly
surprised - hugely revamped/expanded 'what to do now' sections, a new
series on allotments covering both traditional style and raised bed
(yippee) and more of it (not visibly all adverts).

I resubbed last summer using the Tesco clubcard cheapie offer (a year
for 8 quid of tokens, so free) and so it's even better value!

I haven't got mine yet - looking forward to it if it is as you say. But I
agree about the old one. It's really "bitty", and the adverts were all
over
the place and very intrusive. I can leave out the garden tours totally.

--
Tim C.

It's definitely better but I still have one complaint - the extra 'little'
bits they insert into the main articles. One article this month almost had
each paragraph on a different page because of all the other stuff squashed
in. You shouldn't have to keep flicking the pages back and forth trying to
find where the end of the sentence has been hidden.

Also a two page picture of Monty digging in the garden with a few words on
one page didn't tell me much beyond the fact that he likes April. I may find
it hard to make use of that little bit of information in future...

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm

"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:03:41 -0000, "Des Higgins"
wrote:

Aaaaargh; every time I see that name I remember seeing him say on Gardeners
World in the mid 90s saying with a straight face that he only grew plants
that were culinary, medicinal or aphrodisiac. This was with him dressed in
some kind of hand-knitted afghan yoghurt fibre jump suit standing beside a
pile of used tyres that he was using for growing strawberries. Put me off
my takeaway, so it did.

Similar picture with the pigtail carefully positioned in last week's
AG.
According to Janet's rating I would give Bob Flowerdew 2/7/8. His
knowledge of organics is second to none, but he needs to study a bit
of Latin in order to pronounce and understand plant names.
I hope he's not reading this. We know they do sometimes, as Jenny
will remember from her never-to-be-forgotten appearances on GQT! LOL

Pam in Bristol

You can still listen to it on my home page :~))
www.ljconline.nl (garden - GQT)

Jenny :~))

"Des Higgins" wrote

Who do you hate the most?

Janet

Alan T !!!
Jenny

"Des Higgins" wrote in message
...

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Des Higgins
wrote:

....Oh, you mean TV gardeners? There is none worth hating but I get
annoyed by Monty Don (superiority complex, prone to errors, organic

Superiority complex ?!?!?!?!?!?!

You should listen to him on depression at :
http://www.nelmh.org/home_affective_...c=001&fid =51

Where IMO he does not sound at all superior !
Jenny