Plants for a Future raves about the fruit. Is it good? Easy to grow?

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

"Steve Harris" wrote in message
...
Plants for a Future raves about the fruit. Is it good? Easy to grow?

Steve Harris - Cheltenham

Should be interesting to see the replies to this, Eleagnus x ebbingei is a
great hedge plant with scented flowers in Autumn, many forms have lovely
variegated foliage, but fruit? I have never seen any, but then if they are
hedges I suppose they may get cut off! its also not 100% hardy if you are in
a cold place.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article ,
(Charlie Pridham) wrote:

but fruit? I have never seen any

According to http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/elaeagns.html

"If the plants are trimmed in late summer (when being grown as a hedge
for example) then you will be removing most of the plants potential for
producing fruit. The simple answer to this is to only trim the hedge in
the spring, after harvesting the fruit."

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

The message
from (Steve Harris) contains these words:

In article ,
(Charlie Pridham) wrote:

but fruit? I have never seen any

According to http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/elaeagns.html

"If the plants are trimmed in late summer (when being grown as a hedge
for example) then you will be removing most of the plants potential for
producing fruit. The simple answer to this is to only trim the hedge in
the spring, after harvesting the fruit."

Istr reading of eleagnus fruiting in Russia; though my memory also
tells me it was e. angustifolia not ebbingii. (Haven't got my books here
to check). That would presumably be the parts of Russia that have warmer
drier summers than the UK.

I have grown both e. ebbingii and e. angustifolia in mainland West
Scotland; both of them flowered well(untrimmed) but never fruited in the
ten years or so they survived; they are not longlived plants here ime.
I've never seen fruits on them elsewhere in the UK either.

I've seen before, some very questionable horticultural "information"
from the same website, re what plants could be developed as food sources
in the UK. It has appeared to me that someone with not much
horticultural experience of growing crops/plants in average UK
conditions, has presented second hand crop research drawn mainly from
continental climates, without fully realising why our mild wet high
latitude climate is not advantageous to crops which need high light
levels or long dry warm summers to ripen. Their pages on quinoa are an
example, (and the advice on quinoa's "preferred" soil growing conditions
is nonsensically garbled).

Janet.

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:56:29 -0000, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:


"Steve Harris" wrote in message
...
Plants for a Future raves about the fruit. Is it good? Easy to grow?

Steve Harris - Cheltenham

Should be interesting to see the replies to this, Eleagnus x ebbingei is a
great hedge plant with scented flowers in Autumn, many forms have lovely
variegated foliage, but fruit? I have never seen any, but then if they are
hedges I suppose they may get cut off! its also not 100% hardy if you are in
a cold place.

Ours has small berries about the size of a small olive or rose hip,
green with some reddish streaks IIRC, but pretty insignificant. Never
tried eating them though, if that's what Steve means.
--
Chris
De-* virgin for e-mail reply

Ours has small berries about the size of a small olive or rose hip,
green with some reddish streaks IIRC, but pretty insignificant. Never
tried eating them though, if that's what Steve means.
--
Chris

When are they on the plant Chris? I would have thought such a leafy
evergreen would hide most berries even if they were bright red, still for
something that has good foliage and scented flowers its probebly a bit much
to expect anything else as well!!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article ,
(Charlie Pridham) wrote:

When are they on the plant

April according to http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/elaeagns.html

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

In article ,
(Janet Baraclough) wrote:

I've seen before, some very questionable horticultural "information"
from the same website, re what plants could be developed as food
sources

They say Fuchsia fruit is edible and I'm not dead yet :-)

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:52:03 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

I've seen before, some very questionable horticultural "information"
from the same website, re what plants could be developed as food sources
in the UK. It has appeared to me that someone with not much
horticultural experience of growing crops/plants in average UK
conditions, has presented second hand crop research drawn mainly from
continental climates, without fully realising why our mild wet high
latitude climate is not advantageous to crops which need high light
levels or long dry warm summers to ripen. Their pages on quinoa are an
example, (and the advice on quinoa's "preferred" soil growing conditions
is nonsensically garbled).


Hi Janet,

Plants for a Future do actually grow plants you know! So, much of
their information is, wherever possible, verified empirically.

Their "field" is however situated in Cornwall but they freely admit
accessions to this more clement situation. They do also keep tabs on
what is flourishing in various gardens up and down the country.

Respect

Hussein

Janet Baraclough wrote in message (snipped)
...
continental climates, without fully realising why our mild wet high
latitude climate is not advantageous to crops which need high light
levels or long dry warm summers to ripen. Their pages on quinoa are an
example, (and the advice on quinoa's "preferred" soil growing conditions
is nonsensically garbled).

Janet.
----------------
In the Isles of Scilly, Eleagnus ebbingei mosy definately fruits. The
fruits are black (in July) and very hard. One that I brought back has
germinated and is now a well established bush, but has not yet flowered.

Marina
E. Sx

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:07:29 -0000, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:



Ours has small berries about the size of a small olive or rose hip,
green with some reddish streaks IIRC, but pretty insignificant. Never
tried eating them though, if that's what Steve means.
--
Chris

When are they on the plant Chris? I would have thought such a leafy
evergreen would hide most berries even if they were bright red, still for
something that has good foliage and scented flowers its probebly a bit much
to expect anything else as well!!

To be honest, I can't remember. I've never taken much notice of them
as they're pretty insignificant. Certainly none at the moment that I
can see, although plenty of tiny scented flowers. I think the berries
develop slowly over the winter months, but there's only ever a few of
them, nothing like the abundance of flowers, so easy to miss.

(sorry for the late reply: Virgin newsgroups server seems almost
impossible to get into at the moment)
--
Chris
De-* virgin for e-mail reply

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:00:45 +0000, Chris Hogg
wrote:

To be honest, I can't remember. I've never taken much notice of them
as they're pretty insignificant. Certainly none at the moment that I
can see, although plenty of tiny scented flowers. I think the berries
develop slowly over the winter months, but there's only ever a few of
them, nothing like the abundance of flowers, so easy to miss.

According to PFAF the plant flowers October through January and the
"seed ripens" April through May.

Respect

Hussein

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:00:45 +0000, Chris Hogg
wrote:


To be honest, I can't remember. I've never taken much notice of them
as they're pretty insignificant. Certainly none at the moment that I
can see, although plenty of tiny scented flowers. I think the berries
develop slowly over the winter months, but there's only ever a few of
them, nothing like the abundance of flowers, so easy to miss.

Sorry, I could have given a little more info from PFAF to save any
interested person the trouble of looking it up. I have their database
on my local HD you see and it's therefore very easy for me.

"Fruit - raw or cooked[177]. A reasonable size, it is about 20mm long
and 13mm wide although it does have a large seed[K]. The fully ripe
fruit has a very rich flavour and makes pleasant tasting with a slight
acidity[K]. The fruit should be deep red in colour and very soft when
it is fully ripe, otherwise it will be astringent[K]. The flavour
improves further if the fruit is stored for a day or two after being
picked. The fruit ripens intermittently over a period of about 6 weeks
from early to mid April until May[K].

Seed - raw or cooked. It can be eaten with the fruit though the seed
case is rather fibrous[K]. The taste is vaguely like peanuts[K]."

(I don't know to whom or to what "[K]" refers but the [177] indicates
"Plants for Human Consumption" by Kunkel. G. as the source of the
information. (Maybe the "K" refers to Kunkel?)

Respect

Hussein
(Who has, I think, an Elaeagnus in his garden but hasn't a clue as
to the species)

From: Hussein M. )

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:52:03 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

I've seen before, some very questionable horticultural "information"
from the same website,(snip)

Hi Janet,

Plants for a Future do actually grow plants you know!

So, much of
their information is, wherever possible, verified empirically.

Sigh. Here's what they list under "physical characteristics",for every
single plant name I've ever looked up on their database of 7,000.

"The plant prefers light (sandy), medium (loamy) and heavy (clay)
soils. The plant prefers acid, neutral and basic (alkaline) soils."

That is not empirically verified "information".It's horticulturally
meaningless fluff, waffle, space-filling junk; what does that suggest
about the accuracy of the rest of their plant "information"?

Janet.

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:14:03 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

Sigh. Here's what they list under "physical characteristics",for every
single plant name I've ever looked up on their database of 7,000.

"The plant prefers light (sandy), medium (loamy) and heavy (clay)
soils. The plant prefers acid, neutral and basic (alkaline) soils."

That is not empirically verified "information".It's horticulturally
meaningless fluff, waffle, space-filling junk; what does that suggest
about the accuracy of the rest of their plant "information"?

Who is waffling?

Actually you are not waffling. You are spewing venom like a harridan.
What did PFAF ever do to you?

Just to test your sweeping statement I looked up Rhododendron
campanulatum.

This is what they say:

An evergreen shrub growing to 4.5m. It is hardy to zone 5. It is in
leaf all year, in flower from April to May. The flowers are
hermaphrodite (have both male and female organs) and are pollinated
by Insects.

We rate it 1 out of 5 for usefulness.

The plant prefers light (sandy) and medium (loamy) soils and requires
well-drained soil.

The plant prefers acid soils and can grow in very acid soil.
It can grow in semi-shade (light woodland) or no shade.
It requires moist soil.

Habitats and Possible Locations
Woodland, Dappled Shade, Shady Edge.

Edible Uses None known

Medicinal Uses Disclaimer

Miscellany.
The leaves are mixed with tobacco and used as a snuff in the treatment
of colds and headaches that affect only one side of the head[240]. The
leaves are also used in the treatment of chronic rheumatism, sciatica
and syphilis[240].
The dried twigs and wood are used in the treatment of phthisis and
chronic fevers[240].

Other Uses None known

Cultivation details
Succeeds in most humus rich lime free soils except those of a dry arid
nature or heavy or clayey[1]. Prefers a peaty or well- drained sandy
loam[1].

Succeeds in sun or shade, the warmer the climate the more shade a
plant requires[200]. Requires a pH between 4.5 and 5.5[200].

Succeeds in a woodland though, because of its surface-rooting
habit[200], it does not compete well with surface-rooting trees[1].

Plants need to be kept well weeded, they dislike other plants growing
over or into their root system, in particular they grow badly with
ground cover plants, herbaceous plants and heathers[200].

There are many named varieties selected for their ornamental
value[200].

Plants form a root ball and are very tolerant of being transplanted,
even when quite large, so long as the root ball is kept intact[200].

Plants in this genus are notably susceptible to honey fungus[200].

Propagation
Seed - best sown in a greenhouse as soon as it is ripe in the autumn
and given artificial light. Alternatively sow the seed in a lightly
shaded part of the warm greenhouse in late winter or in a cold
greenhouse in April.
Surface-sow the seed and do not allow the compost to become dry[200].
Pot up the seedlings when they are large enough to handle and grow on
in a greenhouse for at least the first winter.

Layering in late July. Takes 15 - 24 months[78].

Cuttings of half-ripe wood, August in a frame. Difficult[78].
Cultivars
''
There are some named forms for this species, but these have been
developed for their ornamental value and not for their other uses.
Unless you particularly require the special characteristics of any of
these cultivars, we would generally recommend that you grow the
natural species for its useful properties. We have, therefore, not
listed the cultivars in this database[K].

Web References

[E] Ethnobotany Data (common names, uses, countries) from the
Ethnobotany Database (sadly ftp only. The searchable web pages have
been pulled).
[G] Data
(Common Names, Uses, Distribution) from the USDA/ARS NPGS's GRIN
taxonomic database.
[HP] Links, Photos, Suppliers from Hortiplex Plant Database
See the PFAF Links Pages for other sources
or the The Gatherer where you can search many other sources all in one
go.

References

[1] F. Chittendon. RHS Dictionary of Plants plus Supplement. 1956
Oxford University Press 1951
Comprehensive listing of species and how to grow them. Somewhat
outdated, it has been replaces in 1992 by a new dictionary (see
[200]).

[11] Bean. W. Trees and Shrubs Hardy in Great Britain. Vol 1 - 4 and
Supplement. Murray 1981
A classic with a wealth of information on the plants, but poor on
pictures.

[78] Sheat. W. G. Propagation of Trees, Shrubs and Conifers. MacMillan
and Co 1948
A bit dated but a good book on propagation techniques with specific
details for a wide range of plants.

[183] Facciola. S. Cornucopia - A Source Book of Edible Plants.
Kampong Publications 1990 ISBN 0-9628087-0-9
Excellent. Contains a very wide range of conventional and
unconventional food plants (including tropical) and where they can be
obtained (mainly N. American nurseries but also research institutes
and a lot of other nurseries from around the world.

[200] Huxley. A. The New RHS Dictionary of Gardening. 1992. MacMillan
Press 1992 ISBN 0-333-47494-5
Excellent and very comprehensive, though it contains a number of silly
mistakes. Readable yet also very detailed.

[211] Coventry. B. O. Wild Flowers of Kashmir Raithby, Lawrence and
Co. 1923
A nice little pocket guide to 50 wildflowers of Kashmir. This is part
one of three, we have not seen the other two volumes

[240] Chopra. R. N., Nayar. S. L. and Chopra. I. C. Glossary of Indian
Medicinal Plants (Including the Supplement). Council of Scientific and
Industrial Research, New Delhi. 1986
Very terse details of medicinal uses of plants with a wide range of
references and details of research into the plants chemistry. Not for
the casual reader.