Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables. Their findings
will be published in a colour booklet entitled 'What's your poison?' to
be distributed widely.

S.A. quote the example of Aldicarb, a pesticide used on potatoes.
Aldicarb acts as a nerve poison and is classified by the World Health
Organisation as 'extremely hazardous'. A UK Govt. survey in 2003 found
that five percent of potato samples had detectable levels of Aldicarb
residues up to and in one case exceeding legal limits. This suggests
that last year 500,000 may have eaten potatoes containing residues of
Aldicarb that exceeded safety limits.

The UK Government's Food Standards Agency [FSA] are seeking ways to
minimise pesticide residues in food, but Govt. pesticide safety advisors
are playing down the dangers. Soil Association wish to press for more
positive Govt. action by means of their research and publicity.

Soil Association: www.soilassociation.org
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...

Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables.

That's strange. To arrive at a balanced view, they also ought to carry out
detailed research into pesticides encountered in _organic_ fruit &
vegetables, too.

--
Anton

In article , anton
writes
Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables.

That's strange. To arrive at a balanced view, they also ought to carry out
detailed research into pesticides encountered in _organic_ fruit &
vegetables, too.

S.A. are doing that in respect of four pesticides which are allowable
for conversion and/or crisis purposes - what HDRA call 'qualified
approval'. Such produce cannot be sold for public consumption as
organic. The aim is to phase out their use completely and the current
research is designed to speed up that process.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...

Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables. Their
findings
will be published in a colour booklet entitled 'What's your poison?'
to
be distributed widely.

S.A. quote the example of Aldicarb, a pesticide used on potatoes.
Aldicarb acts as a nerve poison and is classified by the World
Health
Organisation as 'extremely hazardous'. A UK Govt. survey in 2003
found
that five percent of potato samples had detectable levels of
Aldicarb
residues up to and in one case exceeding legal limits. This suggests
that last year 500,000 may have eaten potatoes containing residues
of
Aldicarb that exceeded safety limits.

The UK Government's Food Standards Agency [FSA] are seeking ways to
minimise pesticide residues in food, but Govt. pesticide safety
advisors
are playing down the dangers. Soil Association wish to press for
more
positive Govt. action by means of their research and publicity.

That is a laudable exercise on the part of the Soil Asssociation.
I support all efforts to make sure that the unwanted contaminants in
foodstuffs are kept within bounds.

Franz

Soil Association: www.soilassociation.org
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , anton
writes
Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into
pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables.

That's strange. To arrive at a balanced view, they also ought to
carry out
detailed research into pesticides encountered in _organic_ fruit &
vegetables, too.

S.A. are doing that in respect of four pesticides which are
allowable
for conversion and/or crisis purposes - what HDRA call 'qualified
approval'. Such produce cannot be sold for public consumption as
organic. The aim is to phase out their use completely and the
current
research is designed to speed up that process.

That would go only part of the way towards meeting Anton's worry about
the methodology of the Soil Association's investigation.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Pete wrote in reply to Anton...

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables.

That's strange. To arrive at a balanced view, they also ought to carry
out
detailed research into pesticides encountered in _organic_ fruit &
vegetables, too.

We already know it's minimal and all natural.


It depends whether it's grown organically like Alan grows for his family,
grown Organically (TM) as sold in the shops (some chemicals are allowed!!!)
or grown like ours with the bare minimum of chemicals and then only as a
last resort to save the crop. (still better than you can buy)

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Alan Gould" wrote

Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables. Their findings
will be published in a colour booklet entitled 'What's your poison?' to
be distributed widely.

S.A. quote the example of Aldicarb, a pesticide used on potatoes.
Aldicarb acts as a nerve poison and is classified by the World Health
Organisation as 'extremely hazardous'. A UK Govt. survey in 2003 found
that five percent of potato samples had detectable levels of Aldicarb
residues up to and in one case exceeding legal limits. This suggests
that last year 500,000 may have eaten potatoes containing residues of
Aldicarb that exceeded safety limits.

The UK Government's Food Standards Agency [FSA] are seeking ways to
minimise pesticide residues in food, but Govt. pesticide safety advisors
are playing down the dangers. Soil Association wish to press for more
positive Govt. action by means of their research and publicity.

Soil Association: www.soilassociation.org
--

All very laudable I'm sure, however I still haven't got over the SA telling
me they considered it OK for organic crops to be grown right next to a busy
motorway/road.
Although I know most pollutants will be washed off in food preparation,
damned if I would want to eat anything grown in such a place let alone
expect it to be called organic. The soil would be full of heavy metals (
yes, even platinum from catalysts), tyre dust, hydrocarbons,
soot/particulates.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London


--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:21:13 +0000 (UTC), "anton"
wrote:


"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...

Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables.

That's strange. To arrive at a balanced view, they also ought to carry
out
detailed research into pesticides encountered in _organic_ fruit &
vegetables, too.

We already know it's minimal and all natural.



So natural posions are OK whilst 'unnatural' ones arent? Same goes, no doubt
for 'unnatural' cancer-causing agents whilst 'natural' ones are ok?
Break out the hemlock and serve with a chilled lettuce.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

It depends whether it's grown organically like Alan grows for his family,
grown Organically (TM) as sold in the shops (some chemicals are allowed!!!)
or grown like ours with the bare minimum of chemicals and then only as a
last resort to save the crop. (still better than you can buy)

No chemicals are permitted to be used in the production of food to be
sold to the public as organic. Soil Association and HDRA give qualified
acceptance to a small number of such substances being used during
conversion from chemical to organic growing, but resulting crops cannot
legally be marketed as organic.

There may be different arrangements for so called 'Organic (TM)'
produce, but I have never discovered any food on sale under that name.
Could you detail where you have seen it?
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Hobden
writes

It depends whether it's grown organically like Alan grows for his family,
grown Organically (TM) as sold in the shops (some chemicals are
allowed!!!)
or grown like ours with the bare minimum of chemicals and then only as a
last resort to save the crop. (still better than you can buy)

No chemicals are permitted to be used in the production of food to be
sold to the public as organic. Soil Association and HDRA give qualified
snip

LOL. What about the food itself? I think you'll find that detailed analysis
will show that it is, in fact, composed entirely of chemicals.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks for email address

Tumbleweed wrote:
"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Hobden
writes

It depends whether it's grown organically like Alan grows for his
family, grown Organically (TM) as sold in the shops (some
chemicals
are allowed!!!)
or grown like ours with the bare minimum of chemicals and then
only
as a last resort to save the crop. (still better than you can
buy)

No chemicals are permitted to be used in the production of food to
be
sold to the public as organic. Soil Association and HDRA give
qualified snip

LOL. What about the food itself? I think you'll find that detailed
analysis will show that it is, in fact, composed entirely of
chemicals.

I assume you imagine we didn't know that.

Tumbleweed wrote:
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:21:13 +0000 (UTC), "anton"
wrote:


"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...

Soil Association are carrying out detailed research into
pesticides
commonly encountered in non-organic fruit and vegetables.

That's strange. To arrive at a balanced view, they also ought to
carry out
detailed research into pesticides encountered in _organic_ fruit
&
vegetables, too.

We already know it's minimal and all natural.



So natural posions are OK whilst 'unnatural' ones arent? Same goes,
no doubt for 'unnatural' cancer-causing agents whilst 'natural'
ones
are ok?
Break out the hemlock and serve with a chilled lettuce.

I'm not sure that you've paid close attention to the discussions of
the past fifty years. Are you trying to suggest that Alan is stupid?
If so, why not go off and find Cereus-validus and have a balanced
little chat between yourselves? You should get on very well.

In article , Tumbleweed
writes
LOL. What about the food itself? I think you'll find that detailed analysis
will show that it is, in fact, composed entirely of chemicals.

Oh dear! Now why didn't I think of that? :-((
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Hobden
writes

It depends whether it's grown organically like Alan grows for his family,
grown Organically (TM) as sold in the shops (some chemicals are
allowed!!!)
or grown like ours with the bare minimum of chemicals and then only as a
last resort to save the crop. (still better than you can buy)

No chemicals are permitted to be used in the production of food to be
sold to the public as organic.

Dream on, Alan. Look at this, for instance:
http://www.organic-research.com/Laws...ection_int.asp
There are a few inorganic chemicals and a number of plant extracts permitted
to be used.

Soil Association and HDRA give qualified
acceptance to a small number of such substances being used during
conversion from chemical to organic growing, but resulting crops cannot
legally be marketed as organic.

You presumably know that the residues on some fruit n veg have shown that
some non-organic growers have been breaking the rules that exist for all
growers. Human nature and supermarket buying policies being what they are,
I'd be very surprised if a suitable study didn't show that some organic
growers break the rules, too.

There are also additional risks with organic produce that non-use of modern
fungicides may result in more moulds growing on the produce, with a
(natural!) chemical soup produced that may well include some very nasty
things.

I think that the wholesome faith in the organic ideal as shown by you, Alan,
does not correspond to the practices of the larger-scale organisations that
supply the supermarkets. Most organic produce sold in this country is
supplied from abroad, including countries where, to say the least, following
the rules is uncommon.

--
Anton

"Alan Gould" wrote in reply...
, Bob Hobden
It depends whether it's grown organically like Alan grows for his family,
grown Organically (TM) as sold in the shops (some chemicals are
allowed!!!)
or grown like ours with the bare minimum of chemicals and then only as a
last resort to save the crop. (still better than you can buy)

No chemicals are permitted to be used in the production of food to be
sold to the public as organic. Soil Association and HDRA give qualified
acceptance to a small number of such substances being used during
conversion from chemical to organic growing, but resulting crops cannot
legally be marketed as organic.

That's not my understanding Alan, I understood some chemicals and "natural"
plant extract chemicals are allowed, and as some plant extract chemicals
will kill I don't see they are any more valid in an organic garden than man
made ones.


There may be different arrangements for so called 'Organic (TM)'
produce, but I have never discovered any food on sale under that name.
Could you detail where you have seen it?

What I meant by that is, the organic stuff sold in supermarkets and similar
which is produced on factory type farms like the other non-organic produce,
i.e. highly commercial, millions of £'s involved.......

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London