"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...


"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in
message ...
snip
Moreover, such weeds (and most common weeds are of this class)
actually occur unnaturally, having been spread by man himself via
cultivation, both horticultural and agricultural.

Since when are people not 'natural'?

I can think of many who aren't!(:-)

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

"ned" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote in message
...
In article , Carol Russell
Russells@
queenborough42.freeserve.co.uk writes
I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to
sever the
ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots.


Carol you have seen all the 'Tree Huggers' replies and what should
and
should not be done. Well, as someone else has pointed out, it is
'your'
garden for a few years for you to do what you wish, so do what 'you'
want to do.

We had a very old Apple Tree in our last garden and just like your
tree
it had a lot of Ivy growing up it. I cut the Ivy stem and kept the
tree
clear.

The Earth is reputed to be 36 Thousand Million Years old. How long
has
'Man' been on it? Well it has been said that if the age of the Earth
is
related to a 24 hour clock, we have been on this Earth since
23.59.30.

It doesn't matter what you as 'an individual' do, Nature will
'correct'
it after you have gone:-((

Look at the Twyford Gap on the M3 near Winchester, colouring over
all
ready :-))


:-))
Nice summation Mike.
As you see Carol, there are few right or wrong answers to be had but,
lots of shades of grey. Every argument will have its protagonists. And
sometimes, even highly respected scientific minds will disagree.
No matter what you do, you won't please everyone.

--
ned

Thank you all.


--
Art

Garden Web http://www.gardenweb.com
My Garden Web exchange page http://www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/art1952

In article , ned
writes
I think ivy has to climb to
flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any
flowers or fruit at ground level.

We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas.
It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing.
--
Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , ned
writes
I think ivy has to climb to
flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any
flowers or fruit at ground level.

We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas.
It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing.


......and is a bugger to remove :-)

I wonder if I'll be destroying the planet by removing it (in progress via
black plastic over the winter*) or if I then plant something else there I
wont be destroying the planet. Or will I only be destroying the planet if I
choose what to plant therein its place? Silly tree huggers.

--
Tumbleweed

* Mind you, that is providing shelter to slugs, snails, frogs, and various
other animal life. Probably more than was provided by the ivy. What a
dilemma if I remove it.

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:58:18 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:

Since when are people not 'natural'?

Since five minutes ago. I decided. If anybody objects, just tell
them the internet said so.

QED


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.rec.gardening:161174


In article , (Rodger Whitlock) writes:
| On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:58:18 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
| wrote:
|
| Since when are people not 'natural'?
|
| Since five minutes ago. I decided. If anybody objects, just tell
| them the internet said so.
|
| QED

Now, now, please don't be unnatural about this.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

"cormaic" wrote in message
...
'Twas Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:10:30 +0100, when Mike
enriched all our lives with these worthy
thoughts:


The Earth is reputed to be 36 Thousand Million Years old.

No - it's approximately 3.6 billion years old which is 3
thousand 600 million not 36 thousand million - you are out by an order
of magnitude.

....and you are out by about 1 billion years! More like 4.3-4.5 billion.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)

In article , Tumbleweed fromnews@myso
ckstumbleweed.freeserve.co.uk writes
.....and is a bugger to remove :-)

I wonder if I'll be destroying the planet by removing it (in progress via
black plastic over the winter*) or if I then plant something else there I
wont be destroying the planet. Or will I only be destroying the planet if I
choose what to plant therein its place? Silly tree huggers.

If you think that the ivy is presenting any danger to your trees, or to
your overall gardening plan, then for you it is a weed and you should
remove it. In our case ground cover ivy is growing in a copse of healthy
trees where it is doing no harm, so we have no reason to disturb it -
unless of course it becomes a tree-hugger, then we act.

* Mind you, that is providing shelter to slugs, snails, frogs, and various
other animal life. Probably more than was provided by the ivy. What a
dilemma if I remove it.
Your choice entirely.

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)
Now that does sound a planet unfriendly act!
Do you live in a clean air zone? :-)
--
Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs.

In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:58:18 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:

Since when are people not 'natural'?

Since five minutes ago. I decided. If anybody objects, just tell
them the internet said so.

QED

Don't believe everything you read on the internet Roger!
--
Alan Gould

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
news snip

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)
Now that does sound a planet unfriendly act!
Do you live in a clean air zone? :-)

Only when my socks are still on! VBG

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , ned
writes
I think ivy has to climb to
flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing
any
flowers or fruit at ground level.

We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas.
It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing.


Well, there y'go.
I bow to your experience. :-)

Question.
If it can do that, lying on its back, without having to get out of its
bed, why would it want to climb?

Ivy with a sense of adventure?
Ivy with inquisitiveness?
Thinking ivy?

Oh its definitely got to be kept under control now. :-))

--
ned

The message
from Alan Gould contains these words:


When ivy is seen growing up a tree, it is often assumed by gardeners to
be 'attacking' or setting about to harm the tree and finally to kill it.
In some cases this may be true,

Rubbish.

but it is more often the case that the
tree is already sick or in trouble of some kind and the ivy is growing
up it in preparation to act in its natural role of scavenging.

This is nonsense. Ivy is not a parasitic plant, and does not obtain
its food or water from trees, any more than it does from walls; it gets
those through its own below-ground root system. If you sever climbing
ivy stems at the base of a tree trunk, the entire section of ivy *above*
the cut will die; proving that the living tree is not its means of
sustenance. It is not a "scavenger".

As the ivy develops, the tree deteriorates and finally dies, giving
every impression that the ivy killed it. If left to do so, the ivy will
remain on the tree until it is all gone, stump, roots and all. We often
have questions about stump removal in this group and that is nature's
way of doing it - if given the time.

You seem to be suggesting that ivy somehow digests dead trees, stumps
and roots, which is not true. Given time, all dead trees and their
stumps/roots will eventually rot, fall, and be digested by
microorganisms; that has nothing to do with ivy being present.

Janet.

The message
from Alan Gould contains these words:

In article , ned
writes
I think ivy has to climb to
flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any
flowers or fruit at ground level.

We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas.
It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing.

Very surprising; I have never seen that either. Ivy is dimorphic.It's
usually only the juvenile stage (3 or 5 lobed leaves, adventitious
roots)which grows as ground cover in shaded areas. The adult
stage,(distinguishable by the leaf shape changing from lobed to ovate,
and shrubbier, non-climbing branches) that produces flowers and fruit,
requires much more light, which is why it usually occurs at the tops of
walls, upper branches of trees etc.

Janet.

"Sue" wrote in message
...

I have a vague idea I saw it suggested once that you can take a cutting
from the adult flowering part and grow this into a shrubby fruiting plant
that doesn't put out climbing shoots. Is that correct, and if so could I
grow a few like this to add in an existing hedge? I'd like to include some
ivy somewhere for its food/shelter value and this seems an ideal solution.

Sue

yes you can, although the cuttings are generally slower than normal ivy
cuttings they are quite straight forward. you can produce nice variegated
shrubby ivies in the same way.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

There seems to be much confusion about ivy. I'm not sure that I want to go
into all the details and explain it all to those who don't understand, but I
think it's enough to point out that to be a scavenger you have to be able to
recognise that something's dead, and that it can therefore be 'scavenged'.
Plants (including ivy) are unable to make this distinction. Put simply, plants
don't 'think' in the way we recognise that animals can.

Dave.

Dave.