In article ,
Kay writes:
|
| a) you are talking about warning future owners rather than desisting
| entirely

Actually, the point applies to the former. You might be away when
the snow falls - the equivalent can and does happen with leylandii
when someone is ill for a long period.

| b) the need to trim hedges in general and leylandii in particular is
| well known

And so is the need to clear snow off buildings.

| Ad you accuse me of being simplistic! ;-)

Yes. You are being simplistic :-)

When you plant leylandii, you have SOME moral responsibility to
consider what will happen after you cease maintaining them, just
as you do when erecting buildings.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 28/10/04 12:10, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

It's funny you say that about leylandii (and I'm not being sarcastic) but I
had a long and high hedge of it at one house and rarely saw birds on it or
in it.

But that hedge was along the road, wasn't it? In a rural area where
there were plenty of quieter alternatives

But the road wasn't a busy one - more of a lane - in the house you visited.
I once timed the traffic out of 'rush hour' and two cars went past in ten
minutes! It's hardly a busy highway. I found the same thing with another
leylandii hedge in another, earlier house but the hedge was not as long or
as high. At the Tithe Barn, birds came onto the walnut trees right next
door, which were on the lane, my pear trees, lilac and cotoneasters and the
garden wasn't so large that one could say distance from the road was an
issue.
Here, we have as much or possibly more traffic going past this house but
it's still on a lane. However, the bird numbers in the plants around the
edges of the property are much higher. I have no idea why but can only say
that my experience of leylandii was not that it was popular with birds. I
am puzzled by this, I admit, because it's so dense that you'd think it would
be a sort of avian high-rise. Our mixed holly/yew hedge outside the tea
room is alive with sparrows and has people constantly walking up and down
the path beside it, so I'd query that traffic, whether human or motorised,
has much effect on birds that have become accustomed to it.

The Leylandii hedge next door is at least a perching post for quite a
number of birds, and the goldcrests nest in it.

Perching occasionally, yes but nesting, no. I don't think we have
goldcrests around here, or not that I've seen. What sort of habitat and
food do they prefer?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 28/10/04 12:12, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
There are mercifully few around here, most people going in for deciduous
hedging or good old Fuchsia riccartonii.

You are in a very warm corner of the country! 'Good old Fuchsii
riccartonii' dies down to ground level every winter around here.

Yup. That's why I said 'round here'.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 28/10/04 16:27, in article ,
" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
snip If by the usual suspects, you mean me, then yes I hold my hand up.
But if
you have been around this group for several years then you will know that
there have been a great many complaints about this particular plant used in
that particular way.

I *have* been around here for several years Sacha and have also been
consistent in my views but as I said there are relatively few complaints
BUT they do tend to lead to long threads which perhaps gives the
impression of a lot of complaints

I don't know of another hedging plant with its own space in the FAQ but must
look again. Perhaps yew or privet have attained monster status. ;-)
However long the thread, that is not what gives the impression, IMO. What
gives the impression is the people who write in about problems with
leylandii in the first instance.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 28/10/04 16:41, in article ,
" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
On 28/10/04 10:13, in article ,
" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
On 27/10/04 4:59 pm, in article ,
"Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
Perhaps people take better care of beech hedges because they don't take
so
much care and that is because they don't grow at such a terrific rate.

perhaps there are just fewer beech hedges?

Perhaps. But when did you last read 6 complaints about out of control
beech
hedges on here? Or even three? Leylandii even has its own place in urg's
FAQ.

There are a huge number of leylandii and other conifer hedges - a small
proportion not looked after would numerically be much larger than a
similar proportion of other hedges.

And don't forget the bandwagon effect. Leylandii complaints are the 'in
thing' atm.

In that case, they have been the 'in thing' for many years and for very
good
reason. If they are the most planted hedge, they are the most planted
hedge
causing the most annoyance, most suffering and most all round bloody
nuisance.
If they are the most planted hedge then they will have the most
complaints shurely, statistically speaking of course

If they're such a good idea and so easy to maintain, why should there be any
complaints, let alone the scores there are or have been?
They are an easy target because of the high profile cases but if you
look at the hedgeline website you would see that they are far from the
only complained about hedge, if fact I would say boundaries are probably
the most oft complained about part of house owning. Leylandii are seen
as a good idea which is why they are so popular but its when they are
used as a weapon in a dispute that the mass hysteria takes over and
people then ignore the majority of controlled hedges and just talk about
the ones that are hyped up in the media.
I think a statute should be brought in to control neighbours not their
tools because there are many things that can make your neighbours lives
a misery besides hedges

I have never said that leylandii are the only point of dispute. I have said
that *on here* they are the most frequently mentioned hedging (!) plants
that lead to dispute.
But I am sure you're right that boundaries are a matter of dispute. My
daughter has recently moved into our village and her house had been let for
a couple of years before she bought it and the garden was not well
maintained. No leylandii to worry about but a fence collapsing with the
weight of several untrimmed climbers and rotting, too. So her neighbours
asked anxiously if she was going to firstly cut back the climbers and
secondly replace the fence. As I was her foreman in her absence, I said I
was sure she would and she did. So - she took down the climbers and all the
truly appalling tangle with the help of one of our men here and the
neighbours *immediately* said they'd lost all their privacy! They said it
very nicely because they are really delightful people but clearly, it was a
revelation to them that the mess they'd bemoaned in the two years they'd
owned their house had, in fact, given them the privacy they wanted! So -
she has replaced the fence at 6' (it was 4') and will in her own time,
replace it with *managed* climbers. All this has prompted the neighbour on
her right to replace *her* fence, so we hope this is a win/win situation for
everyone, especially the local fencing suppliers from whom we are thinking
of claiming a commission! ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 28/10/04 2:19, in article , "ned"
wrote:

snip
It is a wonderful haven for wildlife.
As is the (well maintained) Leylandii.!!! :-))

It's funny you say that about leylandii (and I'm not being
sarcastic) but I
had a long and high hedge of it at one house

............ Ah, so that's where the prejudice stems from.
'Couldn't hack the maintenance, eh? :-)

and rarely saw birds on it or in it.

:-))
While doing the annual maintenance (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) I found
two nests within the hedge. I suspect tit nests.
Wood pigeons nest on the flat top with only the new growth for cover.
But where the hedge is compact, it should be no surprise that birds
don't fight their way through it.
For reasons not clear, ladybirds in their hundreds appear to love
sunbathing on the flat top.
Butterflies (Large White, Green Veined White, Orange Tip, Comma,
Speckled Wood, this year) often rest on the lea side on windy days.
Where else would you find the Juniper Shieldbug - apart from Juniper?

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 15.10.2004

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

snip

When you plant leylandii, you have SOME moral responsibility to
consider what will happen after you cease maintaining them, just
as you do when erecting buildings.

Really?
Is there case law to support that?
I know many builders who must not sleep easy if its true.
If I have a car, drive it carefully, then sell it, do I have any moral
responsibility if the new owner drives it carelessly?

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 15.10.2004

On 28/10/04 19:16, in article , "ned"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 28/10/04 2:19, in article , "ned"
wrote:

snip
It is a wonderful haven for wildlife.
As is the (well maintained) Leylandii.!!! :-))

It's funny you say that about leylandii (and I'm not being
sarcastic) but I
had a long and high hedge of it at one house

........... Ah, so that's where the prejudice stems from.
'Couldn't hack the maintenance, eh? :-)

Didn't get the chance, smart ass. ;-) In fact, it proves my "owners who let
it get out of control" remarks. It was 12' high or more when I bought the
house and I lived there for mere months before I demolished that piece of
ugliness. There is no doubt it shielded me from passers-by, so I lived with
it for a while. Then one day I looked out at that relentless slab of boring
green and snapped. Within two weeks it was gone, the railings it had pushed
and bent out of shaped were replaced by new ones as was the low brick wall
it had semi-demolished and I, at least, was a much happier bunny. It cost a
lot of money and was worth every single penny to me. At the suggestion of
David Poole, I planted Eucalyptus and Escallonia and as a result of buying
those, met my husband. Hey! Maybe leylandii do have their uses after
all!!!

and rarely saw birds on it or in it.

:-))
While doing the annual maintenance (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) I found
two nests within the hedge. I suspect tit nests.
Wood pigeons nest on the flat top with only the new growth for cover.
But where the hedge is compact, it should be no surprise that birds
don't fight their way through it.
For reasons not clear, ladybirds in their hundreds appear to love
sunbathing on the flat top.
Butterflies (Large White, Green Veined White, Orange Tip, Comma,
Speckled Wood, this year) often rest on the lea side on windy days.
Where else would you find the Juniper Shieldbug - apart from Juniper?

What's with the nudge nudge wink wink? Two nests, eh? Amazing. In 60
feet. Wow.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes
So -
she has replaced the fence at 6' (it was 4') and will in her own time,
replace it with *managed* climbers.

She may well manage them ... but what about the people who come after
her? Surely it is irresponsible of her to plant something that may cause
a problem if future owners don't look after them? ;-)
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article ,
Janet Baraclough.. wrote:

I would say your morals were a moot point, since you had obviously
bribed the Planning Department and Building Control.
:~}

In the index to the Annals of URG:

Maclaren's morals, existence of. See "Moot points".


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Sacha
writes
On 28/10/04 12:10, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

But that hedge was along the road, wasn't it? In a rural area where
there were plenty of quieter alternatives

But the road wasn't a busy one - more of a lane - in the house you visited.
I once timed the traffic out of 'rush hour' and two cars went past in ten
minutes! It's hardly a busy highway.

I was thinking people rather than cars, and although it isn't busy
compared with where I am, in a rural area like that there are a lot more
trees and birds can be more fussy.

I have no idea why but can only say
that my experience of leylandii was not that it was popular with birds. I
am puzzled by this, I admit, because it's so dense that you'd think it would
be a sort of avian high-rise. Our mixed holly/yew hedge outside the tea
room is alive with sparrows

I think the appeal of leylandii is probably a narrow one. Certainly I
don't see our sparrows in it - the seem to prefer something a bit more
open, like rose, elderberry, birch.

and has people constantly walking up and down
the path beside it, so I'd query that traffic, whether human or motorised,
has much effect on birds that have become accustomed to it.

I think you're right there - our nyjer seed feeder is hanging in the
archway over our front gate, and it's only when people go right past it
(rather than cross the road a few feet away) that the goldfinches fly
off.

The Leylandii hedge next door is at least a perching post for quite a
number of birds, and the goldcrests nest in it.

Perching occasionally, yes but nesting, no. I don't think we have
goldcrests around here, or not that I've seen. What sort of habitat and
food do they prefer?

Conifers as habitat. I think they're insect feeders. They're in fact
quite common, but very hard indeed to spot as they're so tiny and spend
so much of they're time grubbing around in foliage. I've seen them in
the leylandii and found nests, then apart from that I've spotted them
grubbing around rather like wrens do (and their common name is 'golden
crested wren') - almost always from very close up, either in the ivy
outside the kitchen window or the euphorbia outside my study window.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article , ned wrote:
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

When you plant leylandii, you have SOME moral responsibility to
consider what will happen after you cease maintaining them, just
as you do when erecting buildings.

Really?
Is there case law to support that?

Hmm. I know about courts with criminal, civil, religious, scientific
and international jurisdiction, but the only ones in the UK that I
know of that claims to include morals are the General Medical Council,
the church courts and some university courts, but none of them apply
those rules to other than their own members. Not even Oxford and
Cambridge did, back in the days when the proctors had the power of
arrest over the general public. Or do you know of one that I don't?

I know many builders who must not sleep easy if its true.
If I have a car, drive it carefully, then sell it, do I have any moral
responsibility if the new owner drives it carelessly?

You should, if it has dangerous aspects, even if they don't make it
illegal to sell. A while ago, a company started importing either
Ladas or Moskvas (I forget), which did not meet UK roadworthiness
standards (e.g. the brakes didn't work in wet weather). It was
illegal to drive them, but not to sell them. The police complained
(publicly), but Whitehall couldn't be bothered to act, so the Kent
police took matters into their own hands. They set up a road block
around the importer's yard (buyers had to collect, for obvious reasons),
stopped every buyer leaving the premises, charged them and impounded
the car. They weren't allowed to stop people entering and say "don't"
but did announce their plan very publicly. The importer complained
to the politicians about "restraint of trade", but received little
sympathy, and stopped trading a few days later.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Sacha" wrote in message
k...

snip
Two nests, eh? Amazing. In 60
feet. Wow.

:-)
It is a dense hedge. And when I trim, I trim. Just the outside bits.
You don't think I would spoil Natures artistry by rummaging about
inside, do you?
Just to do an audit against the off chance that Sacha might want to
know.
:-)
I know your sort. You're just trying to egg me on so that I take the
whole thing to bits just to up the nest count.

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 15.10.2004

On 28/10/04 19:56, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
So -
she has replaced the fence at 6' (it was 4') and will in her own time,
replace it with *managed* climbers.

She may well manage them ... but what about the people who come after
her? Surely it is irresponsible of her to plant something that may cause
a problem if future owners don't look after them? ;-)

Well, the fence will be 6' high and the climbers won't get any encouragement
past that and they will be supplied by us. So, I reckon all parties can
sleep easy. ;-))
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 28/10/04 20:10, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
On 28/10/04 12:10, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

But that hedge was along the road, wasn't it? In a rural area where
there were plenty of quieter alternatives

But the road wasn't a busy one - more of a lane - in the house you visited.
I once timed the traffic out of 'rush hour' and two cars went past in ten
minutes! It's hardly a busy highway.

I was thinking people rather than cars, and although it isn't busy
compared with where I am, in a rural area like that there are a lot more
trees and birds can be more fussy.

Kay, I'm not sure why but you seem to be stretching this to some rather
obscure limits. You were at my house for about 24 hours but seem to feel
able to make a judgment about the area and conditions. You're thinking
'people'? 'People' what? Are you now saying that people walking past,
people on horseback, people walking dogs are going to frighten the local
bird population out of the trees? I repeat that birds were to be found in
neighbours' trees and in my other trees but not in the leylandii hedge. It
was something I particularly remarked because it puzzled me.

I have no idea why but can only say
that my experience of leylandii was not that it was popular with birds. I
am puzzled by this, I admit, because it's so dense that you'd think it would
be a sort of avian high-rise. Our mixed holly/yew hedge outside the tea
room is alive with sparrows

I think the appeal of leylandii is probably a narrow one. Certainly I
don't see our sparrows in it - the seem to prefer something a bit more
open, like rose, elderberry, birch.

The point is that I saw NO birds nesting or even perching for long, in the
thick leylandii hedge that I had in that particular house - a hedge you
never saw, BTW - nor in the smaller hedge I had in a previous house.

and has people constantly walking up and down
the path beside it, so I'd query that traffic, whether human or motorised,
has much effect on birds that have become accustomed to it.

I think you're right there - our nyjer seed feeder is hanging in the
archway over our front gate, and it's only when people go right past it
(rather than cross the road a few feet away) that the goldfinches fly
off.

The Leylandii hedge next door is at least a perching post for quite a
number of birds, and the goldcrests nest in it.

Perching occasionally, yes but nesting, no. I don't think we have
goldcrests around here, or not that I've seen. What sort of habitat and
food do they prefer?

Conifers as habitat. I think they're insect feeders. They're in fact
quite common, but very hard indeed to spot as they're so tiny and spend
so much of they're time grubbing around in foliage. I've seen them in
the leylandii and found nests, then apart from that I've spotted them
grubbing around rather like wrens do (and their common name is 'golden
crested wren') - almost always from very close up, either in the ivy
outside the kitchen window or the euphorbia outside my study window.

Well, we have ivy and euphorbia and lots of wrens, so I'll keep my eyes
open. We have more than a few conifers in this area but I haven't seen these
little birds.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)