In article ,
Alan Gould wrote:
In article , IntarsiaCo
writes
Vinegar is not a poison.

It is if you are a weed. The active ingredient is definately a poison.
Is it an acceptable herbicide for the "organic" producer?

Vinegar is not mentioned in the guidelines for organic weed control.
If it is a poisonous herbicide as you say, then it is not acceptable,
along with all spray type chemical weed-killers.

Such as extract of macerated walnut leaves?

Regarding vinegar and walnut leaf extract as "not organic" is most
definitely making a religion out of what is, at least basically,
a scientific approach.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
.uk...
Hey, didn't meen to spark an argument!!

But thanks lads. I'll go for Roundup and leave it a good while to
dissipate.

[snip]

Wait till you see what an argument in urg actually is. {:-))

I think we are all exploring the topic to really find out if the
running out of the patent on Monsanto's roundup is, or is not,
actually putting cheaper products on the market. So far it is
dubious.

There have been lots of generic roundups available cheaper for a while.
Roundup has changed to Roundup Ultra, with a changed surfactant, I believe.

--
Anton

"anton" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
.uk...
Hey, didn't meen to spark an argument!!

But thanks lads. I'll go for Roundup and leave it a good while
to
dissipate.

[snip]

Wait till you see what an argument in urg actually is. {:-))

I think we are all exploring the topic to really find out if the
running out of the patent on Monsanto's roundup is, or is not,
actually putting cheaper products on the market. So far it is
dubious.

There have been lots of generic roundups available cheaper for a
while.

The only ones I have come across which were significantly cheaper,
were so only because they were less concentrated than Roundup.
If you would quote the name of one of these cheaper ones, I would
definitely keep a look out for it.

Roundup has changed to Roundup Ultra, with a changed surfactant, I
believe.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"anton" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...


There have been lots of generic roundups available cheaper for a
while.

The only ones I have come across which were significantly cheaper,
were so only because they were less concentrated than Roundup.
If you would quote the name of one of these cheaper ones, I would
definitely keep a look out for it.


Nufarm 'Clinic' herbicide, for instance- from memory, about £25 for 5litres
with about 30-odd percent glyphosate, 40-odd percent glyphosate salt, 50-odd
percent solids including surfactant. Ag. suppliers will all have a generic
roundup, but you might need to buy 5 litres.

--
Anton

"anton" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"anton" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in
message
...


There have been lots of generic roundups available cheaper for a
while.

The only ones I have come across which were significantly cheaper,
were so only because they were less concentrated than Roundup.
If you would quote the name of one of these cheaper ones, I would
definitely keep a look out for it.


Nufarm 'Clinic' herbicide, for instance- from memory, about £25 for
5litres
with about 30-odd percent glyphosate, 40-odd percent glyphosate
salt, 50-odd
percent solids including surfactant. Ag. suppliers will all have a
generic
roundup, but you might need to buy 5 litres.

Many thanks. I'll look in at a convenirnt ag shop.

Franz

Vinegar is not mentioned in the guidelines for organic weed control.
If it is a poisonous herbicide as you say, then it is not acceptable,
along with all spray type chemical weed-killers.

Who made up these silly guidelines? Are they meant to be followed blindly?

In article ,
Martin writes:
| On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:09:19 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
| wrote:
|
| Alan--do you ever think about what happens to "commercial" potatoes plants
| before the crop is harvested.
|
| They are sprayed with very strong sulphuric acid - IIRC, 85%
|
| To remove the leaves before picking or what?
|
| Since there is a weak solution of sulphuric and hydrochloric acid
| falling out of the sky daily, does it really make any difference if
| the spuds are sprayed with 85% mix?

Well, it probably doesn't make much difference to the ecology,
but I very much doubt that they do use that. The local farmers
grow potatoes, I often see farm equipment being moved along the
roads, and I have never seen any equipment of a type that could
handle that. 85% sulphuric acid cuts through steel or flesh in
a very short space of time - not as fast as Aqua Regia, but fast.

Are you sure that it isn't some other acid? Even hydrochloric
is MUCH easier and safer to handle.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Well, it probably doesn't make much difference to the ecology,
but I very much doubt that they do use that. The local farmers
grow potatoes, I often see farm equipment being moved along the
roads, and I have never seen any equipment of a type that could
handle that. 85% sulphuric acid cuts through steel or flesh in
a very short space of time - not as fast as Aqua Regia, but fast.

Are you sure that it isn't some other acid? Even hydrochloric
is MUCH easier and safer to handle.


Regards,

I am sure, and I was horrified when I discovered it was being used on
large fields of spuds in which there were numbers of partridges and
pheasants, not to mention wildlife.

Partridges and pheasants especially may sit tight while farm machinery
passes by or over them, and - well, I leave the rest up to your
imagination.

I think the practice should be made illegal.

It is mainly large contractors who rent huge areas of land, plant their
own seed potatoes and harvest them with their own tackle, not small
farmers who would need specialist machinery. Most of them (as do some of
our local potato growers) let the haulm die down naturally.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
(Phil L) wrote:

it worked out cheaper to buy roundup in the long run.

If you study the packaging carefully, you will note:

- Dilution before use is the norm
- The glyphosate content

You will find several offerings cheaper than Roundup (more glyphosate
per pound)

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com
A useful bit of gardening software at http://www.netservs.com/garden/

The message
from Martin contains these words:

AFAIR from childhood, the leaves etc. had died back by the time potato
harvesting/spud picking began. Have things changed so much?
Is the acid treatment reserved for crops of new potatoes

Yes, and no.

Harvest your maincrop early and you get a better price, and if the
weather becomes wet, a better yield.

The idea is for the tubers to remain in the ground for a week or two so
the skins harden, which improves their keeping properties.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article , IntarsiaCo
writes

Who made up these silly guidelines? Are they meant to be followed blindly?

Organic regulations begin at EU level and are aimed at protecting
organic produce and its consumers from abuse. HM UK Govt have appointed
UKROFS [United Kingdom Register of Organic Food Standards] as a
regulatory body to oversee the application of the regulations.
UKROFS has appointed a number of certification bodies, including Soil
Association at Bristol to monitor certifications, allocate authority to
use the approved organic symbol, carry out training, inspections etc.

The EU regulations are obligatory on commercial growers, who cannot
offer produce to the public as organic unless they have statutory
approval. They are not obligatory on recreational or non-commercial
growers, but those people cannot legally sell their produce to the
public as organic. HDRA have produced guidelines for recreational
gardeners who choose to follow organic principles and need some
guidance. Those guidelines follow the commercial regulations where they
apply, but do not include items like harvesting, marketing, transport,
storage, promotions etc.

Full details of arrangements for organic growing can be viewed in the
urg FAQ on organic gardening at:
http://www.nugget.demon.co.uk/MetaFA...gardening.html

HDRA: www.hdra.org.uk

HDRA/Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue: www.OrganicCatalog.com
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Organic regulations begin at EU

That's quite a bureaucracy. How much does all this regulation cost the poor
consumer?

"IntarsiaCo" wrote in message
...
Organic regulations begin at EU

That's quite a bureaucracy. How much does all this regulation cost
the poor
consumer?

Well may you ask. The whole exercise is a huge international con
trick.

Franz

In article , IntarsiaCo
writes
Organic regulations begin at EU

That's quite a bureaucracy. How much does all this regulation cost the poor
consumer?
It is one of the more positive parts of EU food and agriculture policy.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

On 9/29/04 8:00 AM, in article
ult, "Steve Harris"
wrote:

In article ,
(Phil L) wrote:

it worked out cheaper to buy roundup in the long run.

If you study the packaging carefully, you will note:

- Dilution before use is the norm
- The glyphosate content

You will find several offerings cheaper than Roundup (more glyphosate
per pound)

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com
A useful bit of gardening software at http://www.netservs.com/garden/
Boys and girls,
Discussing the price of this product (weedkiller-Roundup etc.) does not
make it ok to use. There was a suggestion early on in this post that simply
said:
"Just turn it over..." and
"Using weed killer is not good for a vegetable garden".
What more does one need to know.
But then it is your vegetable garden...please don't invite me over for
supper...!
Will you actually give these vegetables to your kids? Your friends? Your
parents? And you, yourself, will actually eat them?
Don't do it-turn it over. It's called green manure and it will nurture
the soil...it's fall and you can't grow anything now anyway.
Turn it over and let nature take its course. In the spring you can plant
your vegetable seeds and know you did the right thing.
In fact turn it over now and plant a cover crop. You would want one that
will smother the weeds. Ask your local gardening shop about that.
With love...of veggies,
Twiggy