I have no greenhouse and I always lose a lot of the cuttings and
seedlings of hardy plants which I try to overwinter in a cold frame.

I am considering rigging up an illuminated spot in a spare part of my
garage where the young plants could stay during the worst part of the
winter. An area of around 2'6"" x 2'6"" would do very nicely.

I have had a look at a few web sites, all of which were produced by
folk who appear to be unable to express themselves unambiguously.

Who is prepared to post some advice on lighting requirements?

Franz

In article , Franz Heymann
writes
Who is prepared to post some advice on lighting requirements?

Only to point out that you are proposing to substitute daylight, which
is a fairly complex element, especially where plants are concerned. You
may also need to keep an eye on ambient temperature and humidity, again
plants are more sensitive to those things than garages usually demand.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:34:08 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

I have no greenhouse and I always lose a lot of the cuttings and
seedlings of hardy plants which I try to overwinter in a cold
frame.

I am considering rigging up an illuminated spot in a spare part of
my
garage where the young plants could stay during the worst part of
the
winter. An area of around 2'6"" x 2'6"" would do very nicely.

I have had a look at a few web sites, all of which were produced by
folk who appear to be unable to express themselves unambiguously.

Who is prepared to post some advice on lighting requirements?

Any Dutch pot grower :-)

Is it illegal to grow it in the open in Holland?

perhaps this http://www.hydroponics.com/light/growlamps.htm

Google with grow lamps.

Thanks for the URL. I'll see what it says

Franz

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
writes
Who is prepared to post some advice on lighting requirements?

Only to point out that you are proposing to substitute daylight,
which
is a fairly complex element, especially where plants are concerned.

Daylight has an extremely well known spectrum. It is also known quite
exactly which two wavelength regions of the spectrum are required for
photosynthesis. There are lamps which produce entirely acceptable
spectra for plant growth. In fact some of the fluorescent lamps are
better than sunlight, since they produce a better active light to heat
ratio.

My problem is essentially to find out quantitatively how many lamps,
of what power, at what distance from the plants, to use.

You
may also need to keep an eye on ambient temperature and humidity,
again
plants are more sensitive to those things than garages usually
demand.

I agree. I intend to build a small enclosure of a few foot cube
inside the garage.

Franz

"Martin" wrote in message
...

[snip]

perhaps this http://www.hydroponics.com/light/growlamps.htm

I had a look

I think they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes, unless there is
something fundamental which I misunderstand. I thought the light was
only used by the plant for photosynthesis of carbohydrates from CO2
and water. So why do they waffle about spectra which are adjusted for
good fruiting versus good vegetative growth?

I have little faith in an organisation which thinks the plural of
"wattage" is "wattage's"

Some of their internal links don't work.

[snip]

Franz

In article , Franz Heymann notfranz.
writes

My problem is essentially to find out quantitatively how many lamps,
of what power, at what distance from the plants, to use.

The manufacturers will almost certainly be able to advise you on that.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
notfranz.
writes

My problem is essentially to find out quantitatively how many
lamps,
of what power, at what distance from the plants, to use.

The manufacturers will almost certainly be able to advise you on
that.

But I don't necessarily want to use any lamps sold as horticultural
apparatus, because the chances are that I will decide on using a
battery of ordinary household bayonet fitting fluorescent lamps,
because they are items which we use in the house anyway. I have
looked at their spectra, and they are as best I can judge identical
with those of the lamps usually used in horticultural circles.
Essentially, the information I want is
How many lumens per square metre do I need for overwintering rooted
cuttings of typical hardy plants?
How many lumens per square metre does the lamp provide at specific
distances?

Franz

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:31:13 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .

[snip]

perhaps this http://www.hydroponics.com/light/growlamps.htm

I had a look

I think they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes, unless there
is
something fundamental which I misunderstand. I thought the light
was
only used by the plant for photosynthesis of carbohydrates from CO2
and water. So why do they waffle about spectra which are adjusted
for
good fruiting versus good vegetative growth?

dunno I am not an expert on the subject.

Maybe Jenny knows more?

From observation of light emitted from green houses, most of the
lamps
used *appear* to be sodium vapour lamps i.e the sky is a sodium
colour
at night in these parts. It's particularly noticeable if you
approach
Schiphol by air from the south.

That's weird, because sodium lamps give little more than the yellow
Sodium doublet line, and photosynthesis requires both red and blue
light. {:-((

I have little faith in an organisation which thinks the plural of
"wattage" is "wattage's"

Don't confuse scientific knowledge with basic literacy. :-)


Some of their internal links don't work.

I'll do a bit more googling and try to find out what the average
marijuana growing Dutchman in the street uses; or I'll check the
rubbish skips after the next police raid.

Do you mean "growing Dutchman in the street" or "Dutchman growing in
the street"?

Franz

In article ,
(Franz Heymann) wrote:

My problem is essentially to find out quantitatively how many lamps,
of what power, at what distance from the plants, to use.

Last winter, I couldn't find definitive information either. In the end I
used a single 21W "energy saver" bulb no more than 9" away from some
seedlings and got reasonable results.

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com
A useful bit of gardening software at http://www.netservs.com/garden/

"Steve Harris" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Franz Heymann) wrote:

My problem is essentially to find out quantitatively how many
lamps,
of what power, at what distance from the plants, to use.

Last winter, I couldn't find definitive information either. In the
end I
used a single 21W "energy saver" bulb no more than 9" away from some
seedlings and got reasonable results.

That's a starting point any way. I presume that would do for one
small seedtray.
Just my luck: the biggest energy saver I could find today was 16
watts. {:-((

The other possibility seems to be one of the very high power halide
lamps. I have an unchecked idea that one needs around 1000 lumens per
sq. metre. One of those high powered halogen bulbs of 200 watts
suspended at 50 cm above the table should be able to serve an area of
roughly
50 x 50 cm.
I'll try to look if its spectrum is reasonable.

Franz

Franz

"Martin" wrote
"Franz Heymann" wrote:
"Martin" wrote
[snip]

I think they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes, unless there is
something fundamental which I misunderstand. I thought the light was
only used by the plant for photosynthesis of carbohydrates from CO2
and water. So why do they waffle about spectra which are adjusted for
good fruiting versus good vegetative growth?

dunno I am not an expert on the subject.

Maybe Jenny knows more?

snip

Sorry but, "I know nothing........."
Jenny

"Martin" wrote
"Franz Heymann" wrote:
"Martin" wrote .

[snip]

Careful or I'll stop offering you my googling skills :-)
Martin

My googling threw up this page with links to places that sell lamps for growing
indoor 'crops' :~))
http://www.wietcd.nl/techtekst/licht/licht.htm

Jenny

"Franz Heymann"
snip
How many lumens per square metre do I need for overwintering rooted
cuttings of typical hardy plants?
How many lumens per square metre does the lamp provide at specific
distances?
Franz

Hi Franz
Here are some technical sites for you. i don't know if they will help as I don't
understand a word of the content :~)

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/guide3.shtml
http://homeharvest.com/growlightglossary.htm
http://www.growell.co.uk/g/4/The_GroWell_GroW_Tent.html
http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu/...ght/light.html
http://www.specialty-lights.com/plan...questions.html
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23844

Plus loads more via google with light lumen indoor plant as search
words..........
jenny

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Martin" wrote
"Franz Heymann" wrote:
"Martin" wrote .

[snip]

Careful or I'll stop offering you my googling skills :-)
Martin

My googling threw up this page with links to places that sell lamps
for growing
indoor 'crops' :~))
http://www.wietcd.nl/techtekst/licht/licht.htm

Hello Jenny,
If you had looked at that website, you would have discovered, like I
did, that it has practically zero information. {:-((

Franz

Jenny

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann"
snip
How many lumens per square metre do I need for overwintering
rooted
cuttings of typical hardy plants?
How many lumens per square metre does the lamp provide at specific
distances?
Franz

Hi Franz
Here are some technical sites for you. i don't know if they will
help as I don't
understand a word of the content :~)

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/guide3.shtml
http://homeharvest.com/growlightglossary.htm
http://www.growell.co.uk/g/4/The_GroWell_GroW_Tent.html
http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu/...ght/light.html
http://www.specialty-lights.com/plan...questions.html
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23844

Plus loads more via google with light lumen indoor plant as
search
words..........

Thanks, Jenny. It will take some time to wade through that lot!

Franz