I've finally got my new allotment, I've been asking since February, they
said I could have the plot in June and actually I got the plot today!!! (A
friend in the next county managed the whole process in less than a month,
but that's another gripe!)
Here's my problem:
Nettles!
Oh and thistles and brambles and just about every other perennial weeds you
care to think of that will grow after years of neglect.
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to clear it and suggestions on
what would be a good vegetables to start with?

"Alan Crocker" wrote in message
...
I've finally got my new allotment, I've been asking since February,
they
said I could have the plot in June and actually I got the plot
today!!! (A
friend in the next county managed the whole process in less than a
month,
but that's another gripe!)
Here's my problem:
Nettles!
Oh and thistles and brambles and just about every other perennial
weeds you
care to think of that will grow after years of neglect.
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to clear it and
suggestions on
what would be a good vegetables to start with?

It sounds as if you ought to treat the whole allotment withglyphosate
weedkiller. After 3 weeks, give it a repeat dose on all the surviving
weeds. But it has to be applied in the growing season, so you don't
have much time left.

Franz

Franz

In message , Alan Crocker
writes
Here's my problem:
Nettles!

Nettles are fairly shallow rooted will come out with a brave heart and a
strong fork. They are a good sign of fertile soil too.

Oh and thistles and brambles and just about every other perennial weeds you
care to think of that will grow after years of neglect.
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to clear it and suggestions on
what would be a good vegetables to start with?

Easiest way is hit the lot with glyphosate now. Wait a couple of weeks
until it is all tinder dry. Make a fire break round the edges and any
sheds and then torch the tangle of undergrowth. It is a lot easier than
digging everything out and will kill a proportion of the weed seeds too.

Don't let this years weeds set seed if you can help it.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

I took on an allotment in April this year & although it was weedy i managed
to get a fair bit of produce.
But during summer the whole plot was over run with a blanket of tumbleweed &
many other weeds, most of this has easily
rolled of in a blanket but i'm getting ready to blitz the whole lot with
weedkiller & hopefully i'll have a better chance next
year.

For some excellent info & good ideas have a look at this Leeds allotment
website...
http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/

as i'm in Sunny Scunny it's much the same climate, i find this v.useful.

Good luck

DD

"Alan Crocker" wrote in message
...
I've finally got my new allotment, I've been asking since February, they
said I could have the plot in June and actually I got the plot today!!! (A
friend in the next county managed the whole process in less than a month,
but that's another gripe!)
Here's my problem:
Nettles!
Oh and thistles and brambles and just about every other perennial weeds
you
care to think of that will grow after years of neglect.
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to clear it and suggestions
on
what would be a good vegetables to start with?

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:47:08 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Crocker"
wrote:

I've finally got my new allotment, I've been asking since February, they
said I could have the plot in June and actually I got the plot today!!! (A
friend in the next county managed the whole process in less than a month,
but that's another gripe!)
Here's my problem:
Nettles!
Oh and thistles and brambles and just about every other perennial weeds you
care to think of that will grow after years of neglect.
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to clear it and suggestions on
what would be a good vegetables to start with?

If you're considering the 'organic' approach - hack the weeds down as
best you can and remove the cuttings ( or burn them on site ), cover
the plot with manure, then cover the whole lot over with black
polythene ( the thin, cheap stuff is good enough for a single season's
use ).
Come spring you can begin planting through the polythene.

I've grown a variety of veg in this manner with very good results -
even first early potatoes ( using a bulb planter to make the holes -
though another method is to peel back the polythene, plant as normal,
replace the sheet and simply cut slits in it as and when the shoots
push up against it. ).
For crops such as carrots and onions you'll be better off exposing a
section of the allotment and cultivating as per normal.
Peas can be grown through the polythene, but it's a bit tricky - and
in most cases you'd be looking to use plants rather than sow directly
into the soil.

By the end of next season you'll have had a decent crop from the
allotment, and you can then discard the polythene and cultivate as
normal.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
...

[snip]

If you're considering the 'organic' approach - hack the weeds down
as
best you can and remove the cuttings ( or burn them on site ).

I was told that burning garden waste is naughty.

[snip]

Franz

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:06:57 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
.. .

[snip]

If you're considering the 'organic' approach - hack the weeds down
as
best you can and remove the cuttings ( or burn them on site ).

I was told that burning garden waste is naughty.

Depends on the local bylaws I'd imagine.
Fresh ashes can help to counteract the tendency for a polythene mulch
to raise the acidity of the soil.

Other options include composting the debris - but at this time of year
there are likely to be lots of seeds in the mix, which will require a
decent heap and a good temperature to kill them.
For the same reason it wouldn't be ideal to simply leave the debris on
site as part of the mulch.


Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Alan Crocker wrote:

I've finally got my new allotment, I've been asking since February, they
said I could have the plot in June and actually I got the plot today!!! (A
friend in the next county managed the whole process in less than a month,
but that's another gripe!)
Here's my problem:
Nettles!
Oh and thistles and brambles and just about every other perennial weeds you
care to think of that will grow after years of neglect.
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to clear it and suggestions on
what would be a good vegetables to start with?

Hi

I'm not terribly experienced, I got my first allotment ever this year at
the end of May, but this is what I did.

It was in the same state as yours. Burning was not an option as it's
strictly forbidden in our allotments.

I started by clearing a 2x3m area using a fork to dig the ground and remove
the roots of perennial weeds. Backbreaking work, but I wanted to put at
least one raised bed and start growing stuff, to encourage myself.

Then, a neighbouring plotholder lent me a hoe that made the whole job soooo
much easier.
It's not the weeding hoe, it has a flat blade 8in wide that sits at right
angles from the handle - it can be used to just cut the weeds at ground
level or to dig the ground. I'd never seen it in garden centres, I bought
mine from a builders merchant.

I managed to clear the whole plot in a few weeks, piled all weeds and roots
in a great heap. This hoe does cut the roots in smaller pieces, but I
found it more manageable - with new thistle/bindweed shoots, I dig some up
or spray them weekly and they are dying. Lots of seeds germinated, and
annual weeds are still coming up, but with this hoe it takes me about 1
hour a week to clear the plot.

With the ground clear, I managed to put 8 raised beds made from pallets and
have grown a lot of stuff in just 3 months. Other friendly plotholders
gave me thinnings of their plants and lots of advice. I've grown carrots,
peas, french beans, spinach, runner beans, beetroot, cos lettuce, leeks,
sweetcorn, tomatoes, potatoes, cauliflowers, even pumpkins and melons.

I had old seed packets and bought some new ones, but I tried sowing stuff
even if the packet said it was too late. I didn't care too much if I
didn't get anything back from it, I just wanted to have a go. Some failed
to come up, but most grew, and I've been bringing home lots of lovely,
sweet, fresh vegetables for weeks. So enjoy your allotment.

I've just planted onion sets (got three varieties from Mr Fothergills
online), still sowing spring onions, onions, carrots (Autumn King), Pak
choi, cabbage for spring greens, salads, rocket. I also ordered strawberry
plants, which should arrive in October.

For more ideas of what to sow now, the hdra and rhs have pages with what to
do this month,

http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/calendar.asp
http://www.hdra.org.uk/todo_now/veg_gard_now.htm

Also, look in seeds websites, get seeds catalogues etc.

Sorry it's a long post, but I hope it helps

Griz

In message , Stephen Howard
writes
On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:06:57 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
. ..

[snip]

If you're considering the 'organic' approach - hack the weeds down
as
best you can and remove the cuttings ( or burn them on site ).

I was told that burning garden waste is naughty.

Depends on the local bylaws I'd imagine.

In some regions domestic garden fires are banned (not that anyone pays a
blind bit of notice in Belgium). It turns out that a significant
proportion of dioxin pollution (and other bad stuff) comes from badly
constructed fires burning garden waste and domestic refuse. The
Organic(TM) fraternity prefer to ignore this fact - fire is "natural".

Fresh ashes can help to counteract the tendency for a polythene mulch
to raise the acidity of the soil.

I only burn my garden rubbish when it is tinder dry. Onions and fruit
trees seem to thrive on any charcoal and wood ash that remains.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:33:43 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

In message , Stephen Howard
writes
On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:06:57 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Stephen Howard" wrote in message
...

[snip]

If you're considering the 'organic' approach - hack the weeds down
as
best you can and remove the cuttings ( or burn them on site ).

I was told that burning garden waste is naughty.

Depends on the local bylaws I'd imagine.

In some regions domestic garden fires are banned (not that anyone pays a
blind bit of notice in Belgium). It turns out that a significant
proportion of dioxin pollution (and other bad stuff) comes from badly
constructed fires burning garden waste and domestic refuse. The
Organic(TM) fraternity prefer to ignore this fact - fire is "natural".

Don't recall ever seeing any organic gardening publications
recommending burning waste as opposed to composting it - save for
obviously diseased material.
Most people have bonfires because bonfires are fun.

Mind you, one has to wonder about the checks and balances - on the one
hand there's a load of bonfires, and on the other there's a load of
cars, lorries and heavy plant shoving garden waste around.
Compost miles, I suppose.

Fresh ashes can help to counteract the tendency for a polythene mulch
to raise the acidity of the soil.

I only burn my garden rubbish when it is tinder dry. Onions and fruit
trees seem to thrive on any charcoal and wood ash that remains.

That's a valid point - a soggy bonfire is not a happy bonfire.
Round about now I burn all the twigs and broken off branches from the
plum trees, and throw the ash round the roots - seems to work for me,
I get good yields in spite of being rather neglectful of my plums!

Similarly I too find it helps the onions along - those beds that are
treated with ash seem to produce more robust onions...though still not
so robust that they won't fall prey to a spot of grey mildew in some
years.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In message , Stephen Howard
writes
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:33:43 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

In message , Stephen Howard
writes
On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:06:57 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

I was told that burning garden waste is naughty.

Depends on the local bylaws I'd imagine.

In some regions domestic garden fires are banned (not that anyone pays a
blind bit of notice in Belgium). It turns out that a significant
proportion of dioxin pollution (and other bad stuff) comes from badly
constructed fires burning garden waste and domestic refuse. The
Organic(TM) fraternity prefer to ignore this fact - fire is "natural".

Don't recall ever seeing any organic gardening publications
recommending burning waste as opposed to composting it - save for
obviously diseased material.

Composting isn't all that much better. ISTR that fungal decay is about
third down the list of sources of dioxins in the environment.

Most people have bonfires because bonfires are fun.

And to be fair fire is a pretty effective way to sterilise most things.
Though some hardy spores may actually be distributed in smoke by the
updraft.

Mind you, one has to wonder about the checks and balances - on the one
hand there's a load of bonfires, and on the other there's a load of
cars, lorries and heavy plant shoving garden waste around.
Compost miles, I suppose.

It is never as clear cut as you might hope.


Fresh ashes can help to counteract the tendency for a polythene mulch
to raise the acidity of the soil.

I only burn my garden rubbish when it is tinder dry. Onions and fruit
trees seem to thrive on any charcoal and wood ash that remains.

That's a valid point - a soggy bonfire is not a happy bonfire.
Round about now I burn all the twigs and broken off branches from the
plum trees, and throw the ash round the roots - seems to work for me,
I get good yields in spite of being rather neglectful of my plums!

They tend to go biennial if you don't look after them. My neighbours
tree has so many plums this year that the entire village has been
supplied!

Next year I expect it will have almost none (like last year).

Similarly I too find it helps the onions along - those beds that are
treated with ash seem to produce more robust onions...though still not
so robust that they won't fall prey to a spot of grey mildew in some
years.

I reckon the onions like the extra drainage from the charcoal and the
fruit like the wood ash. YMMV.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:51:31 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

In message , Stephen Howard
writes

Don't recall ever seeing any organic gardening publications
recommending burning waste as opposed to composting it - save for
obviously diseased material.

Composting isn't all that much better. ISTR that fungal decay is about
third down the list of sources of dioxins in the environment.

We're all doomed!

Most people have bonfires because bonfires are fun.

And to be fair fire is a pretty effective way to sterilise most things.
Though some hardy spores may actually be distributed in smoke by the
updraft.

Probably find that more spores are distributed simply by the process
of gathering up all the stuff into one place.

Mind you, one has to wonder about the checks and balances - on the one
hand there's a load of bonfires, and on the other there's a load of
cars, lorries and heavy plant shoving garden waste around.
Compost miles, I suppose.

It is never as clear cut as you might hope.

If you extend the comparison to include the manufacturing of the plant
and packaging that surrounds the whole operation it starts to look as
clear as mud.

The council started a green waste collection scheme in this general
area some time ago. It's not a pretty sight to see thundering great
refuse trucks ploughing their way through the narrow sunken lanes
round here.

That's a valid point - a soggy bonfire is not a happy bonfire.
Round about now I burn all the twigs and broken off branches from the
plum trees, and throw the ash round the roots - seems to work for me,
I get good yields in spite of being rather neglectful of my plums!

They tend to go biennial if you don't look after them. My neighbours
tree has so many plums this year that the entire village has been
supplied!

That explains why I've been getting a good crop every second year
then!
Keep meaning to get in there and sort them out, but the plot gets
thoroughly overgrown with weeds, nettles and brambles come mid-summer
- and there are so many trees that even scouting round the perimeter
and picking the fruits within arm's reach yields more than I know what
to do with.
And I have something of a dilemma with the brambles - they produce
very large and juicy berries that come into season just after the main
thicket over the other side of the garden.
Decisions, decisions...

Next year I expect it will have almost none (like last year).

I think last year was a good year too - but then it was an exceptional
one.

Similarly I too find it helps the onions along - those beds that are
treated with ash seem to produce more robust onions...though still not
so robust that they won't fall prey to a spot of grey mildew in some
years.

I reckon the onions like the extra drainage from the charcoal and the
fruit like the wood ash. YMMV.

Sounds reasonable to me!

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:55:12 +0100, Stephen Howard
wrote:

~On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:51:31 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:
~
~In message , Stephen Howard
writes
~
~Don't recall ever seeing any organic gardening publications
~recommending burning waste as opposed to composting it - save for
~obviously diseased material.
~
~Composting isn't all that much better. ISTR that fungal decay is about
~third down the list of sources of dioxins in the environment.
~
~We're all doomed!
~
~Most people have bonfires because bonfires are fun.
~
~And to be fair fire is a pretty effective way to sterilise most things.
~Though some hardy spores may actually be distributed in smoke by the
~updraft.
~
~Probably find that more spores are distributed simply by the process
~of gathering up all the stuff into one place.
~
~Mind you, one has to wonder about the checks and balances - on the one
~hand there's a load of bonfires, and on the other there's a load of
~cars, lorries and heavy plant shoving garden waste around.
~Compost miles, I suppose.
~
~It is never as clear cut as you might hope.
~
~If you extend the comparison to include the manufacturing of the plant
~and packaging that surrounds the whole operation it starts to look as
~clear as mud.
~
~The council started a green waste collection scheme in this general
~area some time ago. It's not a pretty sight to see thundering great
~refuse trucks ploughing their way through the narrow sunken lanes
~round here.
~
~That's a valid point - a soggy bonfire is not a happy bonfire.
~Round about now I burn all the twigs and broken off branches from the
~plum trees, and throw the ash round the roots - seems to work for me,
~I get good yields in spite of being rather neglectful of my plums!
~
~They tend to go biennial if you don't look after them. My neighbours
~tree has so many plums this year that the entire village has been
~supplied!
~
~That explains why I've been getting a good crop every second year
~then!

My lottie has got biennial apples - feast or famine! This year's a
feast, and how...

~Keep meaning to get in there and sort them out, but the plot gets
~thoroughly overgrown with weeds, nettles and brambles come mid-summer
~- and there are so many trees that even scouting round the perimeter
~and picking the fruits within arm's reach yields more than I know what
~to do with.
~And I have something of a dilemma with the brambles - they produce
~very large and juicy berries that come into season just after the main
~thicket over the other side of the garden.
~Decisions, decisions...

I've made so far 15lb bramble jelly this year. Not to mention 5lb
raspberry jam (after freezing loads for eating), 3lb blackcurrant, 2lb
redcurrant jelly, 2lb plum, and have just embarked on herb jellies
(basically apple jelly made with part water and part distilled vinegar
and herb leaves) to try and use up some of the bounty rather than
leaving it to go rotten. As it was I didn't get all the redcurrants as
I was fed up of picking them! There are a lot of very sated birds this
year too...

But the brambles (Himalayan giant) are going nuts. Still have pounds
to pick...

jane

~
~Next year I expect it will have almost none (like last year).
~
~I think last year was a good year too - but then it was an exceptional
~one.
~
~Similarly I too find it helps the onions along - those beds that are
~treated with ash seem to produce more robust onions...though still not
~so robust that they won't fall prey to a spot of grey mildew in some
~years.
~
~I reckon the onions like the extra drainage from the charcoal and the
~fruit like the wood ash. YMMV.
~
~Sounds reasonable to me!
~
~Regards,
~
~
~
~--
~Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
~www.shwoodwind.co.uk
~Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

In article , Stephen Howard
writes
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:51:31 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

In message , Stephen Howard
writes

Don't recall ever seeing any organic gardening publications
recommending burning waste as opposed to composting it - save for
obviously diseased material.

Composting isn't all that much better. ISTR that fungal decay is about
third down the list of sources of dioxins in the environment.

We're all doomed!

I must admit my first thought was to wonder what proportion of the
fungal decay in the UK is happening in compost heaps.


--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article ,
Janet Baraclough.. wrote:

Rowan berries also make a good herb jelly, delicious with cold meat or
sharp cheese.

Ah! I am pretty certain that tells me things about your DNA ....

Some 60% of the UK population can't tell bitter from sour (or
possibly distinguish them very weakly). Rowan berries are as
bitter as hell (quinine-like) and almost all of us who can
distinguish will find the jelly inedible. I made some, and it
went in the bin.

Note that, if you can counteract bitterness with sugar, you are
one of the 60%. The 40% can PARTIALLY counteract it with salt.
Grapefruit is sweet, bitter and slightly sour. Lemon juice is
not bitter at all, but the peel is. Orange juice is slightly
bitter.

Now, it is POSSIBLE that I picked them too early (it is common
for both bitterness and sourness to drop as fruit ripens), but I
don't think so.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.