On 27 Jul 2004 08:52:07 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
writes:
| On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 22:59:56 +0100, "datsy"
| wrote:
|
| If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket
| (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call
| Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to
| call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any
| harm, will it?
|
| Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called
| "wild rocket" in the first place??
|
| Perhaps because that's it's common name?

Well, no, it isn't.

You seem to have a different understanding of the word common to most
other people.


The rocket that is sold sold in supermarkets is still Eruca sativa,
which is called rocket or sweet rocket. There are other plants
called rocket, but their "wild rocket" is merely a different variety
of sweet rocket. Remember that there is no law against inventing
bogus names for such things.

Perhaps you should read the links I gave and take it up with those who
made the websites.
--
Martin

In message , datsy
writes


...
If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket
(actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call
Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to
call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any
harm, will it?

Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called
"wild rocket" in the first place??



According to the Organic Gardening Catalogue, their wild rocket is
Diplotaxis tenuifolia, not Sisymbrium officinale (but it's also known as
Sisymbrium tenuifolium, according to www.scs.leeds.ac.uk - just Google
"diplotaxis"). It's a perennial and "doubtfully native" in Britain,
rated a noxious/invasive weed in various parts of Australia. I've had
it in my garden for about 3 years.

There's also another wild rocket, Diplotaxis erucoides; this one is an
annual and (according to the same source) a serious weed in southern
Europe.

I believe the normal cultivated annual or "salad" rockets are Erucas -
allegedly introduced to Britain by the Romans. So perhaps the annual
wild rocket's name means "not actually a rocket but rather like one".

--
Max Wright
www.wys-systems.demon.co.uk/plotcrop

In article , Max Wright
writes
According to the Organic Gardening Catalogue, their wild rocket is
Diplotaxis tenuifolia, not Sisymbrium officinale (but it's also known as
Sisymbrium tenuifolium, according to www.scs.leeds.ac.uk - just Google
"diplotaxis"). It's a perennial and "doubtfully native" in Britain,
rated a noxious/invasive weed in various parts of Australia. I've had
it in my garden for about 3 years.

There's also another wild rocket, Diplotaxis erucoides; this one is an
annual and (according to the same source) a serious weed in southern
Europe.

I believe the normal cultivated annual or "salad" rockets are Erucas -
allegedly introduced to Britain by the Romans. So perhaps the annual
wild rocket's name means "not actually a rocket but rather like one".

I suspect it's just to sound trendy, like 'wild mushrooms' or 'wild
rice'
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

I suspect it's just to sound trendy, like 'wild mushrooms' or 'wild
rice'
--

"Wild mushrooms" I agree is mainly trendy, not exactly wild ones when they
are served up in the restaurant! "Wild rice", however, I think is wild -
it's not the stuff that is grown in paddy fields but is a grass-type plant
growing in lakes in N. America.

"datsy" wrote in message ...
...
If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket
(actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call
Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to
call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any
harm, will it?

Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called
"wild rocket" in the first place??

First, maybe they're a bunch of lying *******s. Second, I fancy it's
come to us this way through Italian usage (could be wrong here, and
have only a tiny Italian dictionary) and got a bit mangled en route.

Though the Collins Field Guide uses "Hedge mustard" for what the
Internet calls "wild rocket", the botanical name also seems, from the
'net at any rate, to apply to cultivated varieties sold as "rocket". I
assume that by "wild" the sellers mean the type, as distinct from
cultivars: Italians are very good on wild vegetables.

Mike.

I suspect it's just to sound trendy, like 'wild mushrooms' or 'wild
rice'
--

"Wild mushrooms" I agree is mainly trendy, not exactly wild ones when they
are served up in the restaurant! "Wild rice", however, I think is wild -
it's not the stuff that is grown in paddy fields but is a grass-type plant
growing in lakes in N. America.

Max Wright wrote in message ...
In message , datsy
writes


...
If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket
(actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call
Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to
call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any
harm, will it?

Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called
"wild rocket" in the first place??



According to the Organic Gardening Catalogue, their wild rocket is
Diplotaxis tenuifolia, not Sisymbrium officinale (but it's also known as
Sisymbrium tenuifolium, according to www.scs.leeds.ac.uk - just Google
"diplotaxis"). It's a perennial and "doubtfully native" in Britain,
rated a noxious/invasive weed in various parts of Australia. I've had
it in my garden for about 3 years.

There's also another wild rocket, Diplotaxis erucoides; this one is an
annual and (according to the same source) a serious weed in southern
Europe.

I believe the normal cultivated annual or "salad" rockets are Erucas -
allegedly introduced to Britain by the Romans. So perhaps the annual
wild rocket's name means "not actually a rocket but rather like one".

Thanks for that. Collins lists D. tenuifolia as "Perennial wall
rocket". Another species, D. muralis or Annual wall rocket appears in
the same paragraph. No sign of D. erucoides under that name. Back to
the Internet!

MIke.

In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:

Thanks for that. Collins lists D. tenuifolia as "Perennial wall
rocket". Another species, D. muralis or Annual wall rocket appears in
the same paragraph. No sign of D. erucoides under that name. Back to
the Internet!

Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is
as follows:

The rocket that supermarkets sell has been called rocket or
garden rocket (I was wrong about sweet rocket), and is Eruca sativa
(Brassica eruca etc.) We all agreed on the last.

The term "rocket" has been applied, with or without qualifications,
to at least 6 genera of brassicas, including all those mentioned, plus
Hesperis and Barbarea. Like most common names, it is "loose".

Interestingly, "blue rocket" has been applied to aconite,
delphinium and bluebell (two of which are seriously poisonous), and
there are several other non-brassicas called rockets.

The term "wild rocket" has been applied to a fair number of them,
including at least Sisymbrium officinale, but I believe that the
supermarkets have invented it as a marketing term for another variety
of Eruca sativa.

So there is no reasonable sense in which it is a common name for what
the supermarkets are selling, unless I am wrong and they really ARE
selling Sisymbrium officinale - and what I saw sold as wild rocket
was definitely Eruca sativa ...


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in message ...
[...]
Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is
as follows:
[...]

Thanks: most informative.

Mike.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in message ...
[...]
Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is
as follows:
[...]

Thanks: most informative.

Mike.

Nick Maclaren wrote or quoted:

Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is
as follows:

The rocket that supermarkets sell has been called rocket or
garden rocket (I was wrong about sweet rocket), and is Eruca sativa
(Brassica eruca etc.) We all agreed on the last.

[...]

Interestingly, "blue rocket" has been applied to aconite,
delphinium and bluebell (two of which are seriously poisonous), and
there are several other non-brassicas called rockets.

The term "wild rocket" has been applied to a fair number of them,
including at least Sisymbrium officinale, but I believe that the
supermarkets have invented it as a marketing term for another variety
of Eruca sativa.

So there is no reasonable sense in which it is a common name for what
the supermarkets are selling, unless I am wrong and they really ARE
selling Sisymbrium officinale - and what I saw sold as wild rocket
was definitely Eruca sativa ...

The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants
of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves,
and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or
buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be
selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale.

Regarding "wild" wild rockets - there are a few of those in
hedgerows around here.

I've tried some of them, and they taste quite different from
the wild rocket that I grow in my garden (though the yellow
flowers look the same). They are not as nice tasting - and
are stronger. I keep meaning to dig some up and take them
home, nontheless...
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.

Nick Maclaren wrote or quoted:

Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is
as follows:

The rocket that supermarkets sell has been called rocket or
garden rocket (I was wrong about sweet rocket), and is Eruca sativa
(Brassica eruca etc.) We all agreed on the last.

[...]

Interestingly, "blue rocket" has been applied to aconite,
delphinium and bluebell (two of which are seriously poisonous), and
there are several other non-brassicas called rockets.

The term "wild rocket" has been applied to a fair number of them,
including at least Sisymbrium officinale, but I believe that the
supermarkets have invented it as a marketing term for another variety
of Eruca sativa.

So there is no reasonable sense in which it is a common name for what
the supermarkets are selling, unless I am wrong and they really ARE
selling Sisymbrium officinale - and what I saw sold as wild rocket
was definitely Eruca sativa ...

The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants
of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves,
and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or
buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be
selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale.

Regarding "wild" wild rockets - there are a few of those in
hedgerows around here.

I've tried some of them, and they taste quite different from
the wild rocket that I grow in my garden (though the yellow
flowers look the same). They are not as nice tasting - and
are stronger. I keep meaning to dig some up and take them
home, nontheless...
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.

In article , Tim Tyler wrote:

The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants
of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves,
and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or
buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be
selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale.

Yes, the one I grow is like that. Your second comment is most
interesting - THOSE supermarkets are at least using a reasonable
name for the plant.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Tim Tyler wrote:

The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants
of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves,
and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or
buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be
selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale.

Yes, the one I grow is like that. Your second comment is most
interesting - THOSE supermarkets are at least using a reasonable
name for the plant.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.