http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...ley/index.html

Join the Tractors & Trolley Parade - Monday 13th October 2003, Central
London

Come on the parade - sign up here
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...y/sign_up.html

Sign the message of opposition [online]
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_.../petition.html

Spread the word
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...read_word.html

"This autumn will be crucial for the GM campaign as the Government
will soon decide whether to grow GM crops commercially. Your right to
choose GM-free food could be about to disappear. But the fight isn’t
over yet. We need to pile the pressure on Tony Blair to show that
farmers, consumers and campaigners say no to GM.

The Tractor and Trolley parade, following a summer of local anti-GM
activities around the country, will be a fun, peaceful and good
humoured event.

Consumers and farmers will unite to demonstrate their strong
resistance to GM crops and food.

Led by tractors and accompanied by samba and ceilidh bands, hundreds
of people will push decorated trolleys full of GM-free produce along a
route that passes DEFRA, 10 Downing Street and the National Farmers
Union. The parade will stop off at each venue to hand in messages of
opposition to GM crops."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GM Free Britain, if we dont stop it now we never will.

http://www.gmfreebritain.com/

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:10:21 GMT, "" wrote:

http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...ley/index.html

Join the Tractors & Trolley Parade - Monday 13th October 2003, Central
London

Come on the parade - sign up here
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...y/sign_up.html

Sign the message of opposition [online]
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_.../petition.html

Spread the word
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...read_word.html

"This autumn will be crucial for the GM campaign as the Government
will soon decide whether to grow GM crops commercially. Your right to
choose GM-free food could be about to disappear. But the fight isn’t
over yet. We need to pile the pressure on Tony Blair to show that
farmers, consumers and campaigners say no to GM.

The Tractor and Trolley parade, following a summer of local anti-GM
activities around the country, will be a fun, peaceful and good
humoured event.

Consumers and farmers will unite to demonstrate their strong
resistance to GM crops and food.

Led by tractors and accompanied by samba and ceilidh bands, hundreds
of people will push decorated trolleys full of GM-free produce along a
route that passes DEFRA, 10 Downing Street and the National Farmers
Union. The parade will stop off at each venue to hand in messages of
opposition to GM crops."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GM Free Britain, if we dont stop it now we never will.

http://www.gmfreebritain.com/

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

--
Paul
My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):
http://paulrooney.netfirms.com

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at:
http://www.justgiving.com/london2004

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:51:25 +0100, Paul Rooney
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:10:21 GMT, "" wrote:

http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...ley/index.html

Join the Tractors & Trolley Parade - Monday 13th October 2003, Central
London

Come on the parade - sign up here
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...y/sign_up.html

Sign the message of opposition [online]
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_.../petition.html

Spread the word
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_...read_word.html

"This autumn will be crucial for the GM campaign as the Government
will soon decide whether to grow GM crops commercially. Your right to
choose GM-free food could be about to disappear. But the fight isn’t
over yet. We need to pile the pressure on Tony Blair to show that
farmers, consumers and campaigners say no to GM.

The Tractor and Trolley parade, following a summer of local anti-GM
activities around the country, will be a fun, peaceful and good
humoured event.

Consumers and farmers will unite to demonstrate their strong
resistance to GM crops and food.

Led by tractors and accompanied by samba and ceilidh bands, hundreds
of people will push decorated trolleys full of GM-free produce along a
route that passes DEFRA, 10 Downing Street and the National Farmers
Union. The parade will stop off at each venue to hand in messages of
opposition to GM crops."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GM Free Britain, if we dont stop it now we never will.

http://www.gmfreebritain.com/

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

Might make you run faster in the short term, before it kills you.

I'm a Ford man myself!

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:21:41 +0100, Reid©
wrote:

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?

Efficient crops, disease-resistant veg, etc. Any evidence that it's
bad? Or is that just a *possibility*?

--
Paul
My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):
http://paulrooney.netfirms.com

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at:
http://www.justgiving.com/london2004

"Paul Rooney" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:21:41 +0100, Reid©
wrote:

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?

Efficient crops, disease-resistant veg, etc.

Swallowed the hype then?

In what way are the crops more efficient?

Any evidence that it's
bad?

Well, The rats eating too many potatoes stuff was rubbish.
BUT the real and less exciting aspect is that it allows crops to be sprayed
with even more herbicides.
There's evidence that thats bad.

[Snip]

I don't know why you are shy of indicating who you are, but what I do know
is that Mother Nature has been modifying the genes of all living objects
since the beginning of life, and Homo sapiens has been doing the same at a
vastly increased rate for the past three thousand years or so.

Franz

"W K" wrote in message
...

"Paul Rooney" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:21:41 +0100, Reid©
wrote:

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?

Efficient crops, disease-resistant veg, etc.

Swallowed the hype then?

In what way are the crops more efficient?

Any evidence that it's
bad?

Well, The rats eating too many potatoes stuff was rubbish.
BUT the real and less exciting aspect is that it allows crops to be
sprayed
with even more herbicides.
There's evidence that thats bad.

You are lying in your teeth. Prove me wrong by pointing to any scientific
paper which proves that glyphosate has deleterious effects on humans if used
correctly.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"W K" wrote in message
...

"Paul Rooney" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:21:41 +0100, Reid©
wrote:

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?

Efficient crops, disease-resistant veg, etc.

Swallowed the hype then?

In what way are the crops more efficient?

Any evidence that it's
bad?

Well, The rats eating too many potatoes stuff was rubbish.
BUT the real and less exciting aspect is that it allows crops to be
sprayed
with even more herbicides.
There's evidence that thats bad.

You are lying in your teeth. Prove me wrong by pointing to any scientific
paper which proves that glyphosate has deleterious effects on humans if
used
correctly.

You seem to be assuming that I am talking about the effect on human health.
I am not.

In article ,
"W K" wrote:

BUT the real and less exciting aspect is that it allows crops to be sprayed
with even more herbicides.
There's evidence that thats bad.

To whom or what?
From an earlier discussion about glyphosate:
quote
From: Oz
Newsgroups:
uk.environment.conservation,uk.rec.birdwatching,uk .rec.gardening,uk.rec.n
atural-history,uk.business.agriculture
Subject: Is Glyphosate weed killer safe??
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:07:22 +0100
Organization: acoohdb
Lines: 31
Message-ID:

LD50 for rats 4050 mg/kg
LC50 for rats (4h) 1.3mg/l air
(note greater than, implies they couldn't reach LD50).

So a 100kg person would need to ingest about 400g or 1lb of glyphosate
to have a 50% chance of killing themselves. I would suggest a more
active product would be better.

Note that diluted spray in the sprayer tank at 1.5kg active in 200L
means that you need to consume some 70L of product straight from the
sprayer. The acute lethal dose for water is about 5L, so you get to die
from water ingestion well before dying from the glyphosate. OK, that's
not the whole picture but you get the drift.

Glyphosate is rapidly excreted.

/quote

Note the point that you would die from water intoxication before the
glyphosate could kill you.

Now we could have a discussion about the toxicity of various detergents
used as wetting agents in commercial glyphosate preps but they aren't
herbicides. As best as I am aware they don't persist either.

BTW animals are not plants so the term herbicide might indicate that the
toxicity is not directed at animals.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?

Efficient crops, disease-resistant veg, etc. Any evidence that it's
bad? Or is that just a *possibility*?

Indeed, its a risk, an unquantified one that could have
catastrophic results or might not. Then there are issues about
the way farmers loose the ownership of their seed and the
environmental damage of using pesticide resistant crops coupled
with the pesticide. To my mind, its not worth it.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

In article ,
bigboard wrote:

Franz Heymann wrote:
[Snip]

I don't know why you are shy of indicating who you are, but what I do know
is that Mother Nature has been modifying the genes of all living objects
since the beginning of life, and Homo sapiens has been doing the same at a
vastly increased rate for the past three thousand years or so.

Franz


Bully for you. What has that got to do with it?

What it means is that if you think eating GM might be bad for you then
stay away from all conventional crop varieties since we don't know what
genetic changes happened to yield the required characters, unlike GM.
Also don't eat cauliflower, Brussel sprouts or broccoli, all mutant
cabbages. Who knows what genetic sequences caused these? some may have
happened because, gasp!, a virus went haywire and disrupted some vital
genes. Oh and also stay away from organge carrots, nature meant carrots
to be green.

GM is simply the application of extremely selective, controlled genetic
change in place of non selective, uncontrolled genetic change which
characterises conventional crop breeding. We could argue about dubious
benefits for some particular applications of the technology, but that
does not mean all uses of the technology are bad.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

In article ,
Reid? wrote:

Following up to Paul Rooney

Hang about - GM is good, isn't it?

that's very much a matter of opinion isn't it Paul?

Efficient crops, disease-resistant veg, etc. Any evidence that it's
bad? Or is that just a *possibility*?

Indeed, its a risk, an unquantified one that could have
catastrophic results or might not. Then there are issues about
the way farmers loose the ownership of their seed and the
environmental damage of using pesticide resistant crops coupled
with the pesticide. To my mind, its not worth it.

Then stay away from conventional crops then, very far away. Because the
uncontrolled genetic changes used in their production must, using your
own logic, carry vastly more unquantified risk than a plant in which one
gene has been inserted under controlled conditions and then subjected to
rigorous testing and analysis to show it differs from its unmanipulated
cousins only by the introduced trait.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

In article ,
"W K" wrote:

You are lying in your teeth. Prove me wrong by pointing to any scientific
paper which proves that glyphosate has deleterious effects on humans if
used
correctly.

You seem to be assuming that I am talking about the effect on human health.
I am not.

Then state the things you think are bad about it or shut up.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland
To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded.
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

"Peter Ashby" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"W K" wrote:

You are lying in your teeth. Prove me wrong by pointing to any
scientific
paper which proves that glyphosate has deleterious effects on humans
if
used
correctly.

You seem to be assuming that I am talking about the effect on human
health.
I am not.

Then state the things you think are bad about it or shut up.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland

Hmm. rather a narrow thinker if you can only do this in terms of LD50.

Read up on what the RSPB thinks about this issue. Its to do with effects
similar to those we already see with increased intensification of farming.