My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Thanks

John
In limine sapientiae

John Edgar wrote in
:

My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

It will, but keep it very dilute indeed - a drop or so, no more.

This year my roses have been doing well enough that I haven't bothered
though - I just give them a blast with the hosepipe from time to time, to
wash the greenfly off. They don't seem to come back very quickly.

Victoria

In article , John Edgar
writes
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

In the past I have just chucked my old washing up water over them and it
seems to have done the job.
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:07:35 +0100, John Edgar
wrote:

My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

I, too, have used washing up liquid but found it adversely affected
the leaves of some plants.
On one GQT programme Pippa Greenwood said it must be soft soap and
NOT detergent.
I remember Pippa saying a year or so ago that as a child she used to
help her parents by mixing Lux flakes in water for spraying. Can one
still buy Lux flakes? I don't know. I have a big tub of insecticidal
soap purchased years ago and assume it is still effective.
BTW I have not seen any whitefly on any of my plants this year and
very few aphids.


Pam in Bristol

"John Edgar" wrote in message
...
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

Franz

"John Edgar" wrote in message
...
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

Franz

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"John Edgar" wrote in message
.. .
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?
--
Martin

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"John Edgar" wrote in message
.. .
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?
--
Martin

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"John Edgar" wrote in message
.. .
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?
--
Martin

In article ,
martin wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
"John Edgar" wrote in message
. ..

My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?

Yes, it is.

I can't tell you what the difference is between a detergent and a
soap, though I could ask my tame biochemist (my wife!) Soaps are
definitely salts of fatty acids, and the normal detergent in
household gloops is sodium laureth sulphate. The latter applies
whether it is shampoo, "liquid soap", washing up liquid, carpet
cleaner, car shampoo and so on - so you can use them all more-or-less
interchangeably.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
martin wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
"John Edgar" wrote in message
. ..

My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?

Yes, it is.

I can't tell you what the difference is between a detergent and a
soap, though I could ask my tame biochemist (my wife!) Soaps are
definitely salts of fatty acids, and the normal detergent in
household gloops is sodium laureth sulphate. The latter applies
whether it is shampoo, "liquid soap", washing up liquid, carpet
cleaner, car shampoo and so on - so you can use them all more-or-less
interchangeably.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"John Edgar" wrote in message
...
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return
visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Thanks John

Soapy water and methelated spirits mixed together is even better :~))
A squirt of washing up liquid + a dollop of meths in a pint of water.
Jenny

"John Edgar" wrote in message
...
My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return
visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Thanks John

Soapy water and methelated spirits mixed together is even better :~))
A squirt of washing up liquid + a dollop of meths in a pint of water.
Jenny

On 30 Sep 2003 20:31:58 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
"John Edgar" wrote in message
...

My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?

Yes, it is.

I can't tell you what the difference is between a detergent and a
soap, though I could ask my tame biochemist (my wife!) Soaps are
definitely salts of fatty acids, and the normal detergent in
household gloops is sodium laureth sulphate.

I remember that much from school too :-)

The latter applies
whether it is shampoo, "liquid soap", washing up liquid, carpet
cleaner, car shampoo and so on - so you can use them all more-or-less
interchangeably.

Soft soap is apparently made from vegetable oils

Definition: [n] a soft (or liquid) soap made from vegetable oils;
used in certain skin diseases

*or* it's not according to..........

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \Soap\, n. [OE. sope, AS. s[=a]pe; akin to D. zeep, G.
seife, OHG. seifa, Icel. s[=a]pa, Sw. s?pa, Dan. s?be, and
perhaps to AS. s[=i]pan to drip, MHG. s[=i]fen, and L. sebum
tallow. Cf. {Saponaceous}.]
A substance which dissolves in water, thus forming a lather,
and is used as a cleansing agent. Soap is produced by
combining fats or oils with alkalies or alkaline earths,
usually by boiling, and consists of salts of sodium,
potassium, etc., with the fatty acids (oleic, stearic,
palmitic, etc.). See the Note below, and cf.
{Saponification}. By extension, any compound of similar
composition or properties, whether used as a cleaning agent
or not.

Note: In general, soaps are of two classes, hard and soft.
Calcium, magnesium, lead, etc., form soaps, but they
are insoluble and useless.

The purifying action of soap depends upon the
fact that it is decomposed by a large quantity of
water into free alkali and an insoluble acid
salt. The first of these takes away the fatty
dirt on washing, and the latter forms the soap
lather which envelops the greasy matter and thus
tends to remove it. --Roscoe &
Schorlemmer.

{Castile soap}, a fine-grained hard soap, white or mottled,
made of olive oil and soda; -- called also {Marseilles, or
Venetian, soap}.

{Hard soap}, any one of a great variety of soaps, of
different ingredients and color, which are hard and
compact. All solid soaps are of this class.

{Lead soap}, an insoluble, white, pliable soap made by
saponifying an oil (olive oil) with lead oxide; -- used
externally in medicine. Called also {lead plaster},
{diachylon}, etc.

{Marine soap}. See under {Marine}.

{Pills of soap} (Med.), pills containing soap and opium.

{Potash soap}, any soap made with potash, esp. the soft
soaps, and a hard soap made from potash and castor oil.

{Pumice soap}, any hard soap charged with a gritty powder, as
silica, alumina, powdered pumice, etc., which assists
mechanically in the removal of dirt.

{Resin soap}, a yellow soap containing resin, -- used in
bleaching.

{Silicated soap}, a cheap soap containing water glass (sodium
silicate).

{Soap bark}. (Bot.) See {Quillaia bark}.

{Soap bubble}, a hollow iridescent globe, formed by blowing a
film of soap suds from a pipe; figuratively, something
attractive, but extremely unsubstantial.

This soap bubble of the metaphysicians. --J. C.
Shairp.

{Soap cerate}, a cerate formed of soap, olive oil, white wax,
and the subacetate of lead, sometimes used as an
application to allay inflammation.

{Soap fat}, the refuse fat of kitchens, slaughter houses,
etc., used in making soap.

{Soap liniment} (Med.), a liniment containing soap, camphor,
and alcohol.

{Soap nut}, the hard kernel or seed of the fruit of the
soapberry tree, -- used for making beads, buttons, etc.

{Soap plant} (Bot.), one of several plants used in the place
of soap, as the {Chlorogalum pomeridianum}, a California
plant, the bulb of which, when stripped of its husk and
rubbed on wet clothes, makes a thick lather, and smells
not unlike new brown soap. It is called also {soap apple},
{soap bulb}, and {soap weed}.

{Soap tree}. (Bot.) Same as {Soapberry tree}.

{Soda soap}, a soap containing a sodium salt. The soda soaps
are all hard soaps.

{Soft soap}, a soap of a gray or brownish yellow color, and
of a slimy, jellylike consistence, made from potash or the
lye from wood ashes. It is strongly alkaline and often
contains glycerin, and is used in scouring wood, in
cleansing linen, in dyehouses, etc. Figuratively,
flattery; wheedling; blarney. [Colloq.]

{Toilet soap}, hard soap for the toilet, usually colored and
perfumed.




--
Martin

On 30 Sep 2003 20:31:58 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
"John Edgar" wrote in message
...

My roses are still growing hard here in Sussex, and because of the
dryness and heat we now have the dreaded aphids making a return visit.
I don't want to use Rose Clear etc, and have heard that they do not
like soapy water. Is this true, and if so what sort of soap and what
strength of mixture is best? Will dilute washing up liquid do the
trick for instance?

Washing-up liquid is not soap.

soft soap isn't either or is it?

Yes, it is.

I can't tell you what the difference is between a detergent and a
soap, though I could ask my tame biochemist (my wife!) Soaps are
definitely salts of fatty acids, and the normal detergent in
household gloops is sodium laureth sulphate.

I remember that much from school too :-)

The latter applies
whether it is shampoo, "liquid soap", washing up liquid, carpet
cleaner, car shampoo and so on - so you can use them all more-or-less
interchangeably.

Soft soap is apparently made from vegetable oils

Definition: [n] a soft (or liquid) soap made from vegetable oils;
used in certain skin diseases

*or* it's not according to..........

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \Soap\, n. [OE. sope, AS. s[=a]pe; akin to D. zeep, G.
seife, OHG. seifa, Icel. s[=a]pa, Sw. s?pa, Dan. s?be, and
perhaps to AS. s[=i]pan to drip, MHG. s[=i]fen, and L. sebum
tallow. Cf. {Saponaceous}.]
A substance which dissolves in water, thus forming a lather,
and is used as a cleansing agent. Soap is produced by
combining fats or oils with alkalies or alkaline earths,
usually by boiling, and consists of salts of sodium,
potassium, etc., with the fatty acids (oleic, stearic,
palmitic, etc.). See the Note below, and cf.
{Saponification}. By extension, any compound of similar
composition or properties, whether used as a cleaning agent
or not.

Note: In general, soaps are of two classes, hard and soft.
Calcium, magnesium, lead, etc., form soaps, but they
are insoluble and useless.

The purifying action of soap depends upon the
fact that it is decomposed by a large quantity of
water into free alkali and an insoluble acid
salt. The first of these takes away the fatty
dirt on washing, and the latter forms the soap
lather which envelops the greasy matter and thus
tends to remove it. --Roscoe &
Schorlemmer.

{Castile soap}, a fine-grained hard soap, white or mottled,
made of olive oil and soda; -- called also {Marseilles, or
Venetian, soap}.

{Hard soap}, any one of a great variety of soaps, of
different ingredients and color, which are hard and
compact. All solid soaps are of this class.

{Lead soap}, an insoluble, white, pliable soap made by
saponifying an oil (olive oil) with lead oxide; -- used
externally in medicine. Called also {lead plaster},
{diachylon}, etc.

{Marine soap}. See under {Marine}.

{Pills of soap} (Med.), pills containing soap and opium.

{Potash soap}, any soap made with potash, esp. the soft
soaps, and a hard soap made from potash and castor oil.

{Pumice soap}, any hard soap charged with a gritty powder, as
silica, alumina, powdered pumice, etc., which assists
mechanically in the removal of dirt.

{Resin soap}, a yellow soap containing resin, -- used in
bleaching.

{Silicated soap}, a cheap soap containing water glass (sodium
silicate).

{Soap bark}. (Bot.) See {Quillaia bark}.

{Soap bubble}, a hollow iridescent globe, formed by blowing a
film of soap suds from a pipe; figuratively, something
attractive, but extremely unsubstantial.

This soap bubble of the metaphysicians. --J. C.
Shairp.

{Soap cerate}, a cerate formed of soap, olive oil, white wax,
and the subacetate of lead, sometimes used as an
application to allay inflammation.

{Soap fat}, the refuse fat of kitchens, slaughter houses,
etc., used in making soap.

{Soap liniment} (Med.), a liniment containing soap, camphor,
and alcohol.

{Soap nut}, the hard kernel or seed of the fruit of the
soapberry tree, -- used for making beads, buttons, etc.

{Soap plant} (Bot.), one of several plants used in the place
of soap, as the {Chlorogalum pomeridianum}, a California
plant, the bulb of which, when stripped of its husk and
rubbed on wet clothes, makes a thick lather, and smells
not unlike new brown soap. It is called also {soap apple},
{soap bulb}, and {soap weed}.

{Soap tree}. (Bot.) Same as {Soapberry tree}.

{Soda soap}, a soap containing a sodium salt. The soda soaps
are all hard soaps.

{Soft soap}, a soap of a gray or brownish yellow color, and
of a slimy, jellylike consistence, made from potash or the
lye from wood ashes. It is strongly alkaline and often
contains glycerin, and is used in scouring wood, in
cleansing linen, in dyehouses, etc. Figuratively,
flattery; wheedling; blarney. [Colloq.]

{Toilet soap}, hard soap for the toilet, usually colored and
perfumed.




--
Martin