Having read articles on http://www.thevegetablepatch.com/ that suggest
avoiding pressure treated timber and the explanation as to why on
http://www.organicgardening.com/watc...eatedwood.html I am starting to
think. I have grown my lettuce and carrots in a home made wooden box
constructed from pressure treated timber which I have painted green (garden
fence paint). Do we use the same chemicals here in the UK that are used in
the US?

Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a little).
Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that might last more
than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with moist compost for 9 months
of the year good (I empty them out over winter).

Mike

"Mike Tickle" wrote snip
I have grown my lettuce and carrots in a home made wooden box
constructed from pressure treated timber which I have painted green
(garden
fence paint snip Mike

I have five raised beds 12ft x 4ft x 1ft, all made from reclaimed
floorboards, which were sanded back to a good finish. My plot is near the
top of a hill in South Wales but a spring makes the ground boggy for most of
the year and the drainage is surprisingly poor. With thin soil on a bed of
clay I needed a good depth in the raised beds to stop the plants from
drowning! The timbers are treated with cheapo B&Q Tudar Oak fence treatment
and show little sign of deterioration at the end of their third season
(despite sitting on a bog for most of the year).

In article ,
Mike Tickle wrote:
Having read articles on http://www.thevegetablepatch.com/ that suggest
avoiding pressure treated timber and the explanation as to why on
http://www.organicgardening.com/watc...eatedwood.html I am starting to
think. I have grown my lettuce and carrots in a home made wooden box
constructed from pressure treated timber which I have painted green (garden
fence paint). Do we use the same chemicals here in the UK that are used in
the US?

Usually, but we tend to by less hysterial and histrionic. The same
cannot be said for our ruling bureaucracy, of course.

Most of those pages are unmitigated crap, and I have not seen one
that is in any way reliable. Despite claims, the amount of copper
involved is no danger to mammals and might even be beneficial. It
is less clear about the arsenic, but even that is an essential
mineral - and, if it was as toxic as many of those pages make out,
most of the Welsh would be dead.

I haven't checked up on that page, so that is a generic statement.

Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a little).
Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that might last more
than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with moist compost for 9 months
of the year good (I empty them out over winter).

Not much. I don't know what the new "safe" treatments contain but,
if they work, I doubt they are safe. What I have heard is that they
give limited protection in return for being not obviously dangerous
to humans.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in
:

Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a
little). Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that
might last more than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with
moist compost for 9 months of the year good (I empty them out over
winter).

Not much. I don't know what the new "safe" treatments contain but,
if they work, I doubt they are safe. What I have heard is that they
give limited protection in return for being not obviously dangerous
to humans.

The 'safe' one I use on my rabbit house seems to be basically a coloured
semi-transparent acrylic coating, rather than anything that sinks in and
acts as a poison (though a non-poisonous coating is what I wanted on wood
that will get chewed, really).

I also used it on my pond surround. The pond surround will need another
coat next year, after a bit over 2 years wear.

The rabbit house needs re-doing already after only a few months use: their
claws (which are not all that sharp) seem to be scraping the treatment off
the wood. :-((( Luckily, though, they don't seem to like the taste of it.

Victoria

The message
from "Mike Tickle" contains these words:

Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a little).
Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that might last more
than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with moist compost for 9 months
of the year good (I empty them out over winter).

Line with polythene - solve both problems then.

--
Rusty Hinge
No m'lud, it wasn't a sneg. My joints creak.

In article , Jaques d'Altrades writes:
| The message
| from "Mike Tickle" contains these words:
|
| Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
| applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a little).
| Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that might last more
| than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with moist compost for 9 months
| of the year good (I empty them out over winter).
|
| Line with polythene - solve both problems then.

Bet?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article , Jaques d'Altrades
writes:
| The message
| from "Mike Tickle" contains these words:
|
| Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
| applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a
little).
| Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that might
last more
| than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with moist compost
for 9 months
| of the year good (I empty them out over winter).
|
| Line with polythene - solve both problems then.

Bet?

You're on. Remind me next year - I'm lining wooden troughs with
polythene to put on my proposed roof garden - on top of the ablutions
block jerrybuilt on the end of my place.

Iron bath with fig tree in it -------------

--
Rusty Hinge
No m'lud, it wasn't a sneg. My joints creak.

In article ,
Jaques d'Altrades writes:
| The message
| from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
| In article , Jaques d'Altrades
| writes:
| | The message
| | from "Mike Tickle" contains these words:
| |
| | Aside from that after two years the boxes need a little more paint
| | applying - insects have started to eat the inside of them (just a
| little).
| | Is there anything (safe) that I can paint them with that might
| last more
| | than 2 years, or is 2 years when in contacts with moist compost
| for 9 months
| | of the year good (I empty them out over winter).
| |
| | Line with polythene - solve both problems then.
|
| Bet?
|
| You're on. Remind me next year - I'm lining wooden troughs with
| polythene to put on my proposed roof garden - on top of the ablutions
| block jerrybuilt on the end of my place.

Next year? He was asking about longer periods than that!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Think before you panic.

Are the chemicals left in the timber soluble in water? I can enviseage a
system whereby a double application of chemicals results in a non-soluble
precipitate being left in the timber.

If they are water soluble, what is probability of more moisture passing from
the timber to the soil in the raised bed rather than from that soil to the
timber?

It would seem to me that more moisture will pass from the soil to the timber
if only because one waters the soil more than the timber.

Ergo, what is the fuss about?

Is it about poisoning gardeners or the environment?

I'm against both but am not going to worry about what I think is a
microscopic risk of being poisoned from the lettuce, leeks, peppers and
asparagus in three of my raised beds.

If anybody is worried about the risk, consider painting the inside of the
timber with bitumastic paint as wold be done on decorative brickwork raised
beds to prevent leaching of salt to the outside of the bricks.

It's very easy to create panic!

Ron

It would seem to me that more moisture will pass from the soil to the
timber
if only because one waters the soil more than the timber.

Ergo, what is the fuss about?

Good point. Panic over. I'll paint the boxes and use again and will also
probably make raised beds if/when I move in to the new house for the veggies
next year (since the "soil" around here is solid clay).


Mike

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

| You're on. Remind me next year - I'm lining wooden troughs with
| polythene to put on my proposed roof garden - on top of the ablutions
| block jerrybuilt on the end of my place.

Next year? He was asking about longer periods than that!

OK. Ask me the following year, and the next. Just keep asking until I
fall off my perch.....

--
Rusty Hinge
No m'lud, it wasn't a sneg. My joints creak.

The old CCA treatment (tanalith to most people although thats a trade
name) was perfectly safe to use in a garden. The levels of arsenic in it
ar`nt high enough to cause any worry to little mammals. The only tricky
point is the FACT that it needed to be fixed before use (fixed means
that the carrier solution, water in CCA case, had to be no longer in
place). This usually meant a 14 day drying time between treating and
allowing for sale.

The new treatments are still water borne but have other formulations of
chemicals. The one we have access to at work is a green one (the green
is just a dye) which is still a copper based treatment with a new
generation of biocides which protects against fungi and termite. This is
called A.C.Q and is from a company called C.S.I who have been developing
the stuff for 2 decades.

I think the point here is that treated timber in the case of the new
stuff does not cover you for being water sealed. It is only suitable
against bio degredation. For keeping water away from timber then I`d go
for the bitumastic approach. We recommend the use of these products in
roof trusses when in a swimming room enviroment as the chemicals in the
air can actually attack the connector plates.

CCA is still available but mostly as a brown treatment rather than green.

I doubt if this has made anyone any the wiser as to what to use.

--
email farmer chris on
Please don`t use as it`s a spam haven.

Christopher Norton wrote in
:

The new treatments are still water borne but have other formulations of
chemicals. The one we have access to at work is a green one (the green
is just a dye) which is still a copper based treatment with a new
generation of biocides which protects against fungi and termite. This is
called A.C.Q and is from a company called C.S.I who have been developing
the stuff for 2 decades.

Any idea if this is likely to be lethal to small animals if they actually
eat some of the treated wood? I could really do with something that is
not just a coating, due to the 'scraping' problem mentioned above ( if I
use a thicker coating of something, they take great joy in peeling it off,
bit by bit...)

If it was hens or cats or something I would not worry, but rabbits will try
munching on anything! But if the treatment is specific to fungi and
insects, maybe they would not be affected?

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

In article . 6,
Victoria Clare writes:
| Christopher Norton wrote in
| :
|
| The new treatments are still water borne but have other formulations of
| chemicals. The one we have access to at work is a green one (the green
| is just a dye) which is still a copper based treatment with a new
| generation of biocides which protects against fungi and termite. This is
| called A.C.Q and is from a company called C.S.I who have been developing
| the stuff for 2 decades.
|
| Any idea if this is likely to be lethal to small animals if they actually
| eat some of the treated wood? I could really do with something that is
| not just a coating, due to the 'scraping' problem mentioned above ( if I
| use a thicker coating of something, they take great joy in peeling it off,
| bit by bit...)

Dunno. It is unlikely that the copper would be - it really isn't
that toxic, and you need some in your diet anyway - but I don't have
a clue about the rest.

| If it was hens or cats or something I would not worry, but rabbits will try
| munching on anything! But if the treatment is specific to fungi and
| insects, maybe they would not be affected?

Unlikely. There are few effective fungicides that are not pretty
nasty to mammals, though sometimes only in obscure ways.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message . 6
from Victoria Clare contains these words:

Any idea if this is likely to be lethal to small animals if they actually
eat some of the treated wood? I could really do with something that is
not just a coating, due to the 'scraping' problem mentioned above ( if I
use a thicker coating of something, they take great joy in peeling it off,
bit by bit...)

If it was hens or cats or something I would not worry, but rabbits will try
munching on anything! But if the treatment is specific to fungi and
insects, maybe they would not be affected?

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

Specific to wood boring insects rather than mammals as far as I can
ascertain. I can look further into it if you want me to.

--
email farmer chris on
Please don`t use as it`s a spam haven.