I keep hearing these terms mentioned and I would really appreciate an
explanation.

Thankyou very much to anyone willing to educate me in this matter!
Lorraine

F1 hybrids are pollinated manually under very strict conditions so that
there is no chance of cross over of pollen from another type of that plant.
That is why they are so expensive. When they are grown in your garden or
allotment and they set seed, they are unlikely to come true i.e. have the
same qualities as the original, if sown, because they will probably have
cross pollinated with surrounding plants


Robert
"Newbie Gardener" wrote in message
...
: I keep hearing these terms mentioned and I would really appreciate an
: explanation.
:
: Thankyou very much to anyone willing to educate me in this matter!
: Lorraine

"The Devil's Advocate" wrote in
:

F1 hybrids are pollinated manually under very strict conditions so
that there is no chance of cross over of pollen from another type of
that plant. That is why they are so expensive.

Not exactly. An F1 hybrid is a particular type of first generation
cross, not just a hand-pollinated plant.

Say I cross: short fat hairy one with tall thin weedy one

First generation of their children - all gorgeous tall slim ones - the
F1 hybrids


Then I breed together two of my F1 hybrids.

Their children may be : tall and weedy, short and fat, tall and fat,
short and weedy etc...


F1 hybrids don't 'come true' when they breed together, because they have
a bunch of different genes that can combine in different ways - however
much you isolate them. Only the F1 generation will all have the same
combination of genes to produce the desired characteristics.

Lots of plants have characteristics that are not governed by one
'perfect' combination of genes. According to a bloke on the telly last
night, Aquilegia vulgaris Black Barlow fits this model - as do most
wildflowers, and pretty much any garden seed that comes in a big, cheap
bag ;-)

They have a bunch of genes that can combine in several different ways to
produce more or less the same results. You get the odd slightly
different one, but on the whole, the children look pretty much like the
parents - they 'come true from seed' without being F1 hybrids.

If you plant 'em next to something skyblue pink, you may get the odd
skyblue pink one. But if you get *all* weird looking skyblue pink
ones, which then go to a mixture the year after, you have created your
own F1 hybrids!

Some plants are not F1 hybrids or 'true from seed'. They may be a
'selected strain' (like a labrador is a selected strain of dog), or they
may be a one-off freaks propagated by cuttings. Most fruit tree
varieties are freaks, which is why growing apples from pips is less
rewarding than reason says it should be.

HTH and that I've got it right!

Victoria

that went without saying ha lol

Robert
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
.205...
: "The Devil's Advocate" wrote in
: :
:
: F1 hybrids are pollinated manually under very strict conditions so
: that there is no chance of cross over of pollen from another type of
: that plant. That is why they are so expensive.
:
: Not exactly. An F1 hybrid is a particular type of first generation
: cross, not just a hand-pollinated plant.
:
: Say I cross: short fat hairy one with tall thin weedy one
:
: First generation of their children - all gorgeous tall slim ones - the
: F1 hybrids
:
:
: Then I breed together two of my F1 hybrids.
:
: Their children may be : tall and weedy, short and fat, tall and fat,
: short and weedy etc...
:
:
: F1 hybrids don't 'come true' when they breed together, because they have
: a bunch of different genes that can combine in different ways - however
: much you isolate them. Only the F1 generation will all have the same
: combination of genes to produce the desired characteristics.
:
: Lots of plants have characteristics that are not governed by one
: 'perfect' combination of genes. According to a bloke on the telly last
: night, Aquilegia vulgaris Black Barlow fits this model - as do most
: wildflowers, and pretty much any garden seed that comes in a big, cheap
: bag ;-)
:
: They have a bunch of genes that can combine in several different ways to
: produce more or less the same results. You get the odd slightly
: different one, but on the whole, the children look pretty much like the
: parents - they 'come true from seed' without being F1 hybrids.
:
: If you plant 'em next to something skyblue pink, you may get the odd
: skyblue pink one. But if you get *all* weird looking skyblue pink
: ones, which then go to a mixture the year after, you have created your
: own F1 hybrids!
:
: Some plants are not F1 hybrids or 'true from seed'. They may be a
: 'selected strain' (like a labrador is a selected strain of dog), or they
: may be a one-off freaks propagated by cuttings. Most fruit tree
: varieties are freaks, which is why growing apples from pips is less
: rewarding than reason says it should be.
:
: HTH and that I've got it right!
:
: Victoria
:
:

"Newbie Gardener" wrote in message
...
I keep hearing these terms mentioned and I would really appreciate an
explanation.

I suppose "coming true" depends on the context. F1 hybrids is an easy one,
you should get a copy of "RHS encyclopedia of gardening" or something. I
bought a copy for 15 quid (half price) in WH Smith.

On Wed, 21 May 2003 20:04:31 +0100, Victoria Clare
wrote:

"The Devil's Advocate" wrote in
:

F1 hybrids are pollinated manually under very strict conditions so
that there is no chance of cross over of pollen from another type of
that plant. That is why they are so expensive.

Not exactly. An F1 hybrid is a particular type of first generation
cross, not just a hand-pollinated plant.

Say I cross: short fat hairy one with tall thin weedy one

First generation of their children - all gorgeous tall slim ones - the F1
hybrids


Then I breed together two of my F1 hybrids.

Their children may be : tall and weedy, short and fat, tall and fat,
short and weedy etc...


F1 hybrids don't 'come true' when they breed together, because they have
a bunch of different genes that can combine in different ways - however
much you isolate them. Only the F1 generation will all have the same
combination of genes to produce the desired characteristics.

Lots of plants have characteristics that are not governed by one
'perfect' combination of genes. According to a bloke on the telly last
night, Aquilegia vulgaris Black Barlow fits this model - as do most
wildflowers, and pretty much any garden seed that comes in a big, cheap
bag ;-)

They have a bunch of genes that can combine in several different ways to
produce more or less the same results. You get the odd slightly
different one, but on the whole, the children look pretty much like the
parents - they 'come true from seed' without being F1 hybrids.

If you plant 'em next to something skyblue pink, you may get the odd
skyblue pink one. But if you get *all* weird looking skyblue pink ones,
which then go to a mixture the year after, you have created your own F1
hybrids!

Some plants are not F1 hybrids or 'true from seed'. They may be a
'selected strain' (like a labrador is a selected strain of dog), or they
may be a one-off freaks propagated by cuttings. Most fruit tree
varieties are freaks, which is why growing apples from pips is less
rewarding than reason says it should be.

HTH and that I've got it right!

Victoria

That's about right.

BTW "F1" stands for "first filial generation" which means it's the first
generation of offspring to be produced from a cross.
If you then cross these with F1s with each other, you'll get the F2
generation, which will in all probability produce a mixture of tall thin
hairy ones, short fat hairy ones and various other combinations, but most
likely resembling the original parent plants.

F1 hybrids marked as such on the packet are just marked so to warn you that
if you try and cross these plants, you're more than likely to just get
plants with the parent's features, rahter than the ones that you bought in
the packet.

If you want to know more, look up Gregor Mendel - a hungarian monk who was
one of the pioneers in quantifying crosses and heritable traits. Ok, some
of his results may have been "fiddled" abit, because they are suspiciouls
too close to the "ideal" but the principles apply, and his choice of peas
was a good one.

Tim.

The basic idea is simple. Imagine each parent has pairs of identical genes,
call them AA and BB.

AA + BB = AB + AB + AB + AB (four combinations, but they're all the same).
This is the F1 generation.

Now cross the AB F1s...

AB + AB = AA + AB + BA + BB or AA + 2 x AB + BB (AB and BA are the same).

Note that half the offspring match the parents, the other half match the
grandparents (AA and BB).

Now throw in some random polination from your neighbours plants, nature's
natural "randomize the odd gene and see what happens" etc. and you see what
the F2 generation is a right mix.

Paul DS.