On 24/09/19 14:50, Martin Brown wrote:
On 24/09/2019 14:45, Jeff Layman wrote:


FWIW, I took me five years to eradicate Montbretia in our previous
garden - and I had planted it without knowing what would happen! In our
new place which we moved into seven years ago a small patch of it was
already growing. I dug it out, but it came back, so I must have missed a
corm. I removed that, and a small plant appeared the next year. That
plant was removed, and for three years I didn't see it. This year, it
appeared again.

But in that respect it is no different to foxglove, poppy or teasel.
Once you have them in a garden they are pretty much there to stay.

There is a big difference between seed dispersal and vegetative spread.
With any annual/biennial, or even perennial which reproduces by seed all
you need do is deadhead for a couple of years (maybe more with poppies),
and you've eradicated 99% of the problem. Trying to get rid of anything
which spreads underground can be extremely difficult. I have a list of
plants I will never grow again because on previous occasions they have
spread uncontrollably by roots, rhizomes, or underground shoots.

I've never grown any of the plants you've mentioned, and I've seen them
in my garden only on very rare occasions, obviously blown in on the wind.

--

Jeff

On 24/09/19 13:54, Graeme wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes

Montbretia is nothing like so invasive at least where I have gardened.
It might be more of a problem down south but it barely clings on here.

Seems to grow reasonably well here (Royal Deeside) but, as I said
earlier, I have not noticed it invading this or other gardens despite
our neighbour having quite a display.

Are you sure it is *the* invasive Montbretia, or perhaps another variety
which spreads slowly?

--

Jeff

On 24/09/2019 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/09/19 12:31, Martin Brown wrote:
On 24/09/2019 12:24, Jeff Layman wrote:

TBH I'm a bit surprised that it is in this list. It survives OK on my
clay soil but daffodils and narcissi are both more invasive.

Some daffs do seem a bit "vigorous", but they don't spread in the way
that Montbretia does.

They spread by cormlets, and sometimes by seed. In my experience, even
glyphosate has difficulty killing them (as it does with many plants
which have a storage organ such as a bulb, e.g. Spanish Bluebell). If
your neighbour still has them, keep an eye out for the leaves suddenly
appearing in your garden. :-(

I have never seen it escape from gardens around here. Daffodils do!

I don't know where you are, but I would guess anywhere south of a line
from Bristol to London would be fair game for Montbretia, and I think
that is why it has appeared in the CWA (see Chris Hogg's post).

North Yorkshire on heavy clay soil. Wet in winter which they don't like.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/09/19 13:54, Graeme wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes

Montbretia is nothing like so invasive at least where I have gardened.
It might be more of a problem down south but it barely clings on here.

Seems to grow reasonably well here (Royal Deeside) but, as I said
earlier, I have not noticed it invading this or other gardens despite
our neighbour having quite a display.

Are you sure it is *the* invasive Montbretia, or perhaps another variety
which spreads slowly?

The distinction is nugatory. Many or most of the garden hybrids are
the same cross, and will spread in exactly the same way. My guess
is that they will breed back to the wild form, in the same way that
Primulas do, in places where they naturalise and set seed. That's
one of the many reasons that legislation is so appalling.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 24/09/19 13:05, Graeme wrote:

Maybe the Wildlife and Countryside Act doesn't apply to Scotland. Even
so, if you really would like a Crocosmia there are much better
cultivars which are not invasive (according to the breeders).

That I don't know. To be honest, I am only planting it because it was a
gift, and looks attractive.

FWIW, I took me five years to eradicate Montbretia in our previous
garden - and I had planted it without knowing what would happen! In our
new place which we moved into seven years ago a small patch of it was
already growing. I dug it out, but it came back, so I must have missed
a corm. I removed that, and a small plant appeared the next year. That
plant was removed, and for three years I didn't see it. This year, it
appeared again.

Wow!

--
Graeme

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 24/09/19 13:54, Graeme wrote:

Seems to grow reasonably well here (Royal Deeside) but, as I said
earlier, I have not noticed it invading this or other gardens despite
our neighbour having quite a display.

Are you sure it is *the* invasive Montbretia, or perhaps another
variety which spreads slowly?

No, I'm not sure. Just going by images found using Google. I'll try to
take a picture tomorrow.
--
Graeme

On 24/09/19 16:42, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/09/19 13:54, Graeme wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes

Montbretia is nothing like so invasive at least where I have gardened.
It might be more of a problem down south but it barely clings on here.

Seems to grow reasonably well here (Royal Deeside) but, as I said
earlier, I have not noticed it invading this or other gardens despite
our neighbour having quite a display.

Are you sure it is *the* invasive Montbretia, or perhaps another variety
which spreads slowly?

The distinction is nugatory. Many or most of the garden hybrids are
the same cross, and will spread in exactly the same way. My guess
is that they will breed back to the wild form, in the same way that
Primulas do, in places where they naturalise and set seed. That's
one of the many reasons that legislation is so appalling.

Up to a point I agree with you - in the end it's all Crocosmia xxxxxxx.
But there are, according to the breeders, crosses which are not as
invasive as "Montbretia". I guess it depends on whether you believe them
or not. I find many Crocosmias quite attractive, but I won't be planting
them in case they spread.

--

Jeff

On 24/09/19 12:51, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:32:25 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


Morning all,

Just been given Montbretia by a neighbour, thinning her patch. I have
the corms, complete with greenery and even a few orange flowers. No
earth on the corms.

When should I plant them? Now, or spring? Should I cut off the growth,
or just leave it to wither and die?

Thanks!

I wouldn't have them as a gift! I'm surprised they 'do' so far north.
They're South African in origin.

There are many quite hardy SA plants (particularly those from the
Drakensberg Mountains). Although Montbretia's parents aren't from the
Drakensbergs, it is said to be hardy to US zone 5. The wiki for
Crocosmia x crocosmiiflora states at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocosmia_%C3%97_crocosmiiflora#Invasive_species
"It is widely naturalised in England and Scotland especially along the
western seaboard from Cornwall north all the way to Sutherland. ", so
that confirms it should be hardy in Aberdeenshire.

Two points:

Down here in Cornwall, they grow wild in hedgerows and on rough
uncultivated land, _everywhere_.

I am not at all surprised; the wiki for Crocosmia notes that x
crocosmiiflora is "naturalised in parts of Europe, Rwanda, Zaire, Assam,
Norfolk Island in Australia, Fiji, the Caribbean, Argentina, Tristan da
Cunha (C. aurea × C. pottsii)". It is deemed as "invasive" in New
Zealand and California.
If you really want a Crocosmia, there are much more attractive and
better behaved ones.

Are those the ones made from silk?... ;-)

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Up to a point I agree with you - in the end it's all Crocosmia xxxxxxx.
But there are, according to the breeders, crosses which are not as
invasive as "Montbretia". I guess it depends on whether you believe them
or not. I find many Crocosmias quite attractive, but I won't be planting
them in case they spread.

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?

I have several, and some spread gently whereas others fade away, but
none are invasive and (despite them setting seed), I have never had
a seedling. I cannot say the same about several plants NOT on that
list. This is near Cambridge.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 24/09/2019 14:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/09/19 13:05, Graeme wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 24/09/19 11:30, Martin Brown wrote:
I
doubt there is much that you can do to them that will stop them
growing.
They are almost indestructible.

That is a crazy suggestion - apart from it being illegal (see my reply
to Jim S). Would you say the same thing if he had been given Japanese
Knotweed?!

The OP *must* not plant them. They need to be destroyed.

That seems a little extreme.Â* The plants are for my own garden, not for
planting out and about in random fields and hedgerows.Â* They came from a
neighbour, who is thinning (not removing) hers and, in 20 years here, I
have never noticed the neighbour's plants spreading outside her garden.

Maybe the Wildlife and Countryside Act doesn't apply to Scotland. Even
so, if you really would like a Crocosmia there are much better cultivars
which are not invasive (according to the breeders).

I have just been to have a look at the nearest place with Montbretia. I
know it was planted in 2007 when the Village Hall patio was completed
and started in a 5" pot. It is so invasive that the clump is now a
whopping 1m across after 12 growing seasons. It was planted through weed
membrane and mulched with plum slate which limits its expansion.

No incursions into the neighbouring field either which is more than can
be said of the snowdrops and daffodils which have spread to the other
side of the fence. A decade is plenty long enough for bulbs from seed to
mature to flowering even in harsh adverse conditions grazed by beast.

FWIW, I took me five years to eradicate Montbretia in our previous
garden - and I had planted it without knowing what would happen! In our
new place which we moved into seven years ago a small patch of it was
already growing. I dug it out, but it came back, so I must have missed a
corm. I removed that, and a small plant appeared the next year. That
plant was removed, and for three years I didn't see it. This year, it
appeared again.

I have never tried to eradicate it. But in another garden where I
sometimes work it can barely hold its own against Lilly of the Valley or
Paeony Rose. I wouldn't class that as invasive compared to Ground Elder.

I'm with Nick - the legislation is appalling. Some of these species are
invasive and a big problem in the mildest parts of the country with the
right soil but some of them are actually well behaved compared to lots
of other potentially invasive plants that are not on the list.

Incidentally on that weeds website where in the UK is goldenrod a
serious weed? I know it causes problem for hayfever sufferers.

And why isn't the toxic to horses Ragwort (aka Senecio Jacobaea) on it?
(that is becoming an increasing problem on grazing land round here)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 25/09/2019 11:02, Martin Brown wrote:
On 24/09/2019 14:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/09/19 13:05, Graeme wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 24/09/19 11:30, Martin Brown wrote:
I
doubt there is much that you can do to them that will stop them
growing.
They are almost indestructible.

That is a crazy suggestion - apart from it being illegal (see my reply
to Jim S). Would you say the same thing if he had been given Japanese
Knotweed?!

The OP *must* not plant them. They need to be destroyed.

That seems a little extreme.Â* The plants are for my own garden, not for
planting out and about in random fields and hedgerows.Â* They came from a
neighbour, who is thinning (not removing) hers and, in 20 years here, I
have never noticed the neighbour's plants spreading outside her garden.

Maybe the Wildlife and Countryside Act doesn't apply to Scotland. Even
so, if you really would like a Crocosmia there are much better
cultivars which are not invasive (according to the breeders).

I have just been to have a look at the nearest place with Montbretia. I
know it was planted in 2007 when the Village Hall patio was completed
and started in a 5" pot. It is so invasive that the clump is now a
whopping 1m across after 12 growing seasons. It was planted through weed
membrane and mulched with plum slate which limits its expansion.

No incursions into the neighbouring field either which is more than can
be said of the snowdrops and daffodils which have spread to the other
side of the fence. A decade is plenty long enough for bulbs from seed to
mature to flowering even in harsh adverse conditions grazed by beast.

FWIW, I took me five years to eradicate Montbretia in our previous
garden - and I had planted it without knowing what would happen! In
our new place which we moved into seven years ago a small patch of it
was already growing. I dug it out, but it came back, so I must have
missed a corm. I removed that, and a small plant appeared the next
year. That plant was removed, and for three years I didn't see it.
This year, it appeared again.

I have never tried to eradicate it. But in another garden where I
sometimes work it can barely hold its own against Lilly of the Valley or
Paeony Rose. I wouldn't class that as invasive compared to Ground Elder.

I'm with Nick - the legislation is appalling. Some of these species are
invasive and a big problem in the mildest parts of the country with the
right soil but some of them are actually well behaved compared to lots
of other potentially invasive plants that are not on the list.

Incidentally on that weeds website where in the UK is goldenrod a
serious weed? I know it causes problem for hayfever sufferers.

It might not be serious round here, but it's more invasive that
montbretia; Solidago gigantea forms large colonies.

And why isn't the toxic to horses Ragwort (aka Senecio Jacobaea) on it?
(that is becoming an increasing problem on grazing land round here)


Ragwort (and broad-leaved dock and curled dock and creeping thistle and
spear thistle) is on another lost - the Weeds Act of 1959.

--
SRH

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 25/09/2019 11:02, Martin Brown wrote:

And why isn't the toxic to horses Ragwort (aka Senecio Jacobaea) on it?
(that is becoming an increasing problem on grazing land round here)

Ragwort (and broad-leaved dock and curled dock and creeping thistle and
spear thistle) is on another lost - the Weeds Act of 1959.

That was entirely about stopping poor farmers from causing trouble to
their neighbours' grazing land. Ragwort infestations, especially, are
almost always caused by using land exclusively for grazing horses.

My guess is that the reason they didn't include couch grass, nettles
etc. is that they don't spread into grazing land by seed.

As far as I know, it's still in force, though hasn't been enforced for
many decades.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.