My back garden is mainly laid to lawn - well, grass! - with just a few
fruit trees. The garden is wider than it is long and I have houses on
all three sides. The garden along the back has a number of very
overgrown shrubs, some about twenty feet tall. Fortunately the back
fence is roughly to the north of me so I do get afternoon sun.

I've had for some years from one of my neighbour's shrubs what I
thought were seedlings coming up in the grass and in a patch that I want
to clear for vegetables next year so a couple of months ago I made an
effort to dig these seedlings up, only to find that they weren't
seedlings at all, they were suckers from the underground roots of my
neighbour's shrub. I managed to locate the main roots that were coming
under the fence and into my garden, about three or four of them, some up
to two inches in diameter. I cut them off and proceeded to dig the roots
out only to find that they were long - very long! I dug two or three out
that were about thirty feet long! They might have been longer but they
broke as I pulled them.

I was away for almost the whole of August. When I came back I could see
the extent of the invasion of these roots. Suckers were coming up over
half the lawn! I hadn't noticed this in previous years because I kept
the grass pretty short. This month I've been spending an hour or two
each day digging and pulling up these roots, but I'm fighting a losing
battle, and ruining my lawn into the bargain! These roots seem to have
renewed vigour now that they are severed from the parent shrub.

Actually the reason I'm posting this is because I'd like to know what
this shrub is called. I've given links to a couple of photos. The first
is a sucker growing at the base of my apple tree, the second shows
berries hanging from a branch of the original shrub in the neighbour's
garden.

http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/img_0292.jpg

http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/img_0293.jpg

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary. Is there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

Actually the reason I'm posting this is because I'd like to know what
this shrub is called. I've given links to a couple of photos. The first
is a sucker growing at the base of my apple tree, the second shows
berries hanging from a branch of the original shrub in the neighbour's
garden.

http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/img_0292.jpg

http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/img_0293.jpg

It looks like a Cornus (dogwood), but I am no expert on them.

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary. Is there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

Roots take time to grow, and rarely start suckering immediately. The
suckers in the lawn will eventially die if you keep it mown, because
they have no parent plant any longer. Or you can let them grow, and
glyphosate them. But few will survive in a vegetable patch, assuming
you gig it over at least once a year; only the very deep-rooted weeds,
like horsetail and bindweed, will.

But you will have to block the invasive roots or cut them regularly.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 14/09/2019 17:03, Nick Maclaren wrote:
It looks like a Cornus (dogwood), but I am no expert on them.

Looks rather like Cornus sanguinea (few pairs of leaf veins, black
berries). This is said to reach 4m in height.

--
SRH

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:03:10 Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary. Is there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

Roots take time to grow, and rarely start suckering immediately. The
suckers in the lawn will eventially die if you keep it mown, because
they have no parent plant any longer. Or you can let them grow, and
glyphosate them. But few will survive in a vegetable patch, assuming
you gig it over at least once a year; only the very deep-rooted weeds,
like horsetail and bindweed, will.

But you will have to block the invasive roots or cut them regularly.

Thanks, Nick, I feel more positive about it now. I'll give it the
glyphosate and mowing treatment. I'm glad I don't have to rip up any
more of my lawn!

I'm just wondering - would an application of glyphosate directly to a
root have any effect or does it have to be absorbed through the foliage?

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:33:41 Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

On 14/09/2019 17:03, Nick Maclaren wrote:

It looks like a Cornus (dogwood), but I am no expert on them.

Looks rather like Cornus sanguinea (few pairs of leaf veins, black
berries). This is said to reach 4m in height.

Interesting. I'd never thought of that. I'm familiar with Cornus Alba
Elegantissima (the variegated one) as I've had that in previous gardens.
And I know that, in order to get the display of red stems it has to be
cut back regularly otherwise it just looks rather ordinary in the
winter.

On looking up Cornus Sanguina I see that it, too, should have a display
of red stems (obviously because of the name!) yet I've never seen that
on my neighbour's. In fact, I wondered why on earth it had been planted
because it is such a dull looking and invasive shrub.

But it does explain why the previous owner planted it many years ago. He
was a very keen gardener and kept his shrubs well pruned, thus I never
saw it because of the solid fence between our gardens. This neighbour
died and his house was pulled down a good ten years ago and a new one
built in its place, though the builders left the garden as it was. The
present owner is not a keen gardener and does no pruning, thus his
shrubs are now very much overgrown and I have to prune back regularly
the branches that overhang my garden.

Anyway thanks, Nick and Stewart, for that very quick identification. On
reading the Wiki article it does seem to describe perfectly what I have
here.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On 14/09/19 21:30, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:03:10 Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary. Is there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

Roots take time to grow, and rarely start suckering immediately. The
suckers in the lawn will eventially die if you keep it mown, because
they have no parent plant any longer. Or you can let them grow, and
glyphosate them. But few will survive in a vegetable patch, assuming
you gig it over at least once a year; only the very deep-rooted weeds,
like horsetail and bindweed, will.

But you will have to block the invasive roots or cut them regularly.

Thanks, Nick, I feel more positive about it now. I'll give it the
glyphosate and mowing treatment. I'm glad I don't have to rip up any
more of my lawn!

I'm just wondering - would an application of glyphosate directly to a
root have any effect or does it have to be absorbed through the foliage?

David


It has to be absorbed through the foliage. Note, though, that if you
spray enough of it on it will kill the whole plant - including your
neighbour's - unless you cut the root(s) between the main plant and the
suckers in your lawn.

--

Jeff

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 21:51:04 Jeff Layman wrote:

On 14/09/19 21:30, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:03:10 Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary. Is there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

Roots take time to grow, and rarely start suckering immediately. The
suckers in the lawn will eventially die if you keep it mown, because
they have no parent plant any longer. Or you can let them grow, and
glyphosate them. But few will survive in a vegetable patch, assuming
you gig it over at least once a year; only the very deep-rooted weeds,
like horsetail and bindweed, will.

But you will have to block the invasive roots or cut them regularly.
Thanks, Nick, I feel more positive about it now. I'll give it the
glyphosate and mowing treatment. I'm glad I don't have to rip up any
more of my lawn!
I'm just wondering - would an application of glyphosate directly to

root have any effect or does it have to be absorbed through the foliage?
David


It has to be absorbed through the foliage. Note, though, that if you
spray enough of it on it will kill the whole plant - including your
neighbour's - unless you cut the root(s) between the main plant and the
suckers in your lawn.

Already done! But as the shrub is about twenty feet high I guess that it
would take quite a few applications to kill it!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On 14/09/2019 21:34, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:33:41 Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

On 14/09/2019 17:03, Nick Maclaren wrote:

It looks like a Cornus (dogwood), but I am no expert on them.

Looks rather like Cornus sanguinea (few pairs of leaf veins, black
berries). This is said to reach 4m in height.

Interesting. I'd never thought of that. I'm familiar with Cornus Alba
Elegantissima (the variegated one) as I've had that in previous gardens.
And I know that, in order to get the display of red stems it has to be
cut back regularly otherwise it just looks rather ordinary in the winter.

On looking up Cornus Sanguina I see that it, too, should have a display
of red stems (obviously because of the name!) yet I've never seen that
on my neighbour's. In fact, I wondered why on earth it had been planted
because it is such a dull looking and invasive shrub.

There are cultivars that have red stems, at least when treated
appropriately, but I think that it's used in amenity plantings for the
flowers and the berries.

But it does explain why the previous owner planted it many years ago. He
was a very keen gardener and kept his shrubs well pruned, thus I never
saw it because of the solid fence between our gardens. This neighbour
died and his house was pulled down a good ten years ago and a new one
built in its place, though the builders left the garden as it was. The
present owner is not a keen gardener and does no pruning, thus his
shrubs are now very much overgrown and I have to prune back regularly
the branches that overhang my garden.

Anyway thanks, Nick and Stewart, for that very quick identification. On
reading the Wiki article it does seem to describe perfectly what I have
here.

David

On 14/09/2019 22:10, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 21:51:04 Jeff Layman wrote:

On 14/09/19 21:30, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:03:10 Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David RanceÂ* wrote:

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's
possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the
fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new
vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary. Is
there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

Roots take time to grow, and rarely start suckering immediately.Â* The
suckers in the lawn will eventially die if you keep it mown, because
they have no parent plant any longer.Â* Or you can let them grow, and
glyphosate them.Â* But few will survive in a vegetable patch, assuming
you gig it over at least once a year; only the very deep-rooted weeds,
like horsetail and bindweed, will.

But you will have to block the invasive roots or cut them regularly.
Â*Thanks, Nick, I feel more positive about it now. I'll give it the
glyphosate and mowing treatment. I'm glad I don't have to rip up any
more of my lawn!
Â*I'm just wondering - would an application of glyphosate directly to
root have any effect or does it have to be absorbed through the foliage?
Â*David


It has to be absorbed through the foliage. Note, though, that if you
spray enough of it on it will kill the whole plant - including your
neighbour's - unless you cut the root(s) between the main plant and
the suckers in your lawn.

Already done! But as the shrub is about twenty feet high I guess that it
would take quite a few applications to kill it!

David


If the roots arew thick enough then you could try drilling into them and
injecting a 25% solution of Glyphosate (Concentrate) into the holes.
Works very well for stumps etc.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 03:14:27 David Hill wrote:

On 14/09/2019 22:10, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 21:51:04 Jeff Layman wrote:

On 14/09/19 21:30, David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:03:10 Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David Rance* wrote:

But I'm also wondering what I can do to eradicate it - if it's
possible
(and I'm beginning to think that it isn't). I guess that glyphosate
won't be effective as it'll just keep throwing down more roots as it
goes on its merry way. There's not much point in raising the subject
with my neighbour as there's nothing he can do now to clean my garden.
The roots are shallow so I could put a concrete barrier under the
fence
where most of the roots are coming through. As far as the new
vegetable
patch is concerned, regular thorough digging will be necessary.
Is there
anything else I can do? This shrub really is a thug!

Roots take time to grow, and rarely start suckering immediately.* The
suckers in the lawn will eventially die if you keep it mown, because
they have no parent plant any longer.* Or you can let them grow, and
glyphosate them.* But few will survive in a vegetable patch, assuming
you gig it over at least once a year; only the very deep-rooted weeds,
like horsetail and bindweed, will.

But you will have to block the invasive roots or cut them regularly.
*Thanks, Nick, I feel more positive about it now. I'll give it the
glyphosate and mowing treatment. I'm glad I don't have to rip up any
more of my lawn!
*I'm just wondering - would an application of glyphosate directly to
root have any effect or does it have to be absorbed through the foliage?
*David


It has to be absorbed through the foliage. Note, though, that if you
spray enough of it on it will kill the whole plant - including your
neighbour's - unless you cut the root(s) between the main plant and
the suckers in your lawn.
Already done! But as the shrub is about twenty feet high I guess
that it would take quite a few applications to kill it!
David


If the roots arew thick enough then you could try drilling into them
and injecting a 25% solution of Glyphosate (Concentrate) into the
holes. Works very well for stumps etc.

I was wondering about spraying glyphosate on to the sawn ends of the
root.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

I was wondering about spraying glyphosate on to the sawn ends of the
root.

Would something like SK Brushwood killer be bettter, ?

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:35:53 +0100, Derek wrote:

I was wondering about spraying glyphosate on to the sawn ends of the
root.

Would something like SK Brushwood killer be bettter, ?

I think glyphosate is absorbed through the leaves only.
I agree with brushwood killer.
--
Jim S