Spent half the morning trying to identify:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79018230@N05/41307793635/

East Midlands, south facing rockery, on its own amongst dwarf(?)
strawberries. About 40cm high.

Clues of what to enter on which recommended plant ID site would be
most welcomed too.

So to the subject what is it? Wife thinks it is quite pretty and
wants to leave it in.

--
AnthonyL

On 19/05/18 12:54, AnthonyL wrote:
Spent half the morning trying to identify:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79018230@N05/41307793635/

East Midlands, south facing rockery, on its own amongst dwarf(?)
strawberries. About 40cm high.

Clues of what to enter on which recommended plant ID site would be
most welcomed too.

So to the subject what is it? Wife thinks it is quite pretty and
wants to leave it in.

Looks like Goat's Beard - tragopogon pratensis (probably ssp minor).
http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pages/tragopogon_pratensis_ssp_minor_goats_beard.htm

--

Jeff

On Sat, 19 May 2018 13:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 19/05/18 12:54, AnthonyL wrote:
Spent half the morning trying to identify:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79018230@N05/41307793635/

East Midlands, south facing rockery, on its own amongst dwarf(?)
strawberries. About 40cm high.

Clues of what to enter on which recommended plant ID site would be
most welcomed too.

So to the subject what is it? Wife thinks it is quite pretty and
wants to leave it in.

Looks like Goat's Beard - tragopogon pratensis (probably ssp minor).
http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pages/tragopogon_pratensis_ssp_minor_goats_beard.htm


Yes that's the one thanks for much, the photo was this morning, now,
just after lunch,the flower is closed - "Jack-go-to-bed-at-noon".

Still difficult to google or use a plant-identifier for a layman.

--
AnthonyL

On 19/05/18 14:04, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sat, 19 May 2018 13:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 19/05/18 12:54, AnthonyL wrote:
Spent half the morning trying to identify:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79018230@N05/41307793635/

East Midlands, south facing rockery, on its own amongst dwarf(?)
strawberries. About 40cm high.

Clues of what to enter on which recommended plant ID site would be
most welcomed too.

So to the subject what is it? Wife thinks it is quite pretty and
wants to leave it in.

Looks like Goat's Beard - tragopogon pratensis (probably ssp minor).
http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pages/tragopogon_pratensis_ssp_minor_goats_beard.htm


Yes that's the one thanks for much, the photo was this morning, now,
just after lunch,the flower is closed - "Jack-go-to-bed-at-noon".

Still difficult to google or use a plant-identifier for a layman.

Well, I knew it was Asteraceae (Compositae in pre-decimal currency), so
it was a matter of looking through the Comps in my book of British flora
(The Illustrated Flora of GB and Northern Europe - Blamey and
Grey-Wilson). It wasn't that difficult to find, as just about all other
Asteraceae have leaves with non-smooth edges, and they are fairly wide
to some extent or other. Goat's Beard has very thin, smooth-edged leaves.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Well, I knew it was Asteraceae (Compositae in pre-decimal currency), so
it was a matter of looking through the Comps in my book of British flora
(The Illustrated Flora of GB and Northern Europe - Blamey and
Grey-Wilson). It wasn't that difficult to find, as just about all other
Asteraceae have leaves with non-smooth edges, and they are fairly wide
to some extent or other. Goat's Beard has very thin, smooth-edged leaves.

Salsify doesn't :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Well, I knew it was Asteraceae (Compositae in pre-decimal currency), so
it was a matter of looking through the Comps in my book of British flora
(The Illustrated Flora of GB and Northern Europe - Blamey and
Grey-Wilson). It wasn't that difficult to find, as just about all other
Asteraceae have leaves with non-smooth edges, and they are fairly wide
to some extent or other. Goat's Beard has very thin, smooth-edged leaves.

Salsify doesn't :-)

Damn. I posted too quickly. What I should have said is that's another
Tragopogon.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 19/05/18 19:47, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Well, I knew it was Asteraceae (Compositae in pre-decimal currency), so
it was a matter of looking through the Comps in my book of British flora
(The Illustrated Flora of GB and Northern Europe - Blamey and
Grey-Wilson). It wasn't that difficult to find, as just about all other
Asteraceae have leaves with non-smooth edges, and they are fairly wide
to some extent or other. Goat's Beard has very thin, smooth-edged leaves.

Salsify doesn't :-)

Damn. I posted too quickly. What I should have said is that's another
Tragopogon.

True, but I think the colour is a bit of a give-away. Isn't it really
just a purple Goat's Beard?

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Well, I knew it was Asteraceae (Compositae in pre-decimal currency), so
it was a matter of looking through the Comps in my book of British flora
(The Illustrated Flora of GB and Northern Europe - Blamey and
Grey-Wilson). It wasn't that difficult to find, as just about all other
Asteraceae have leaves with non-smooth edges, and they are fairly wide
to some extent or other. Goat's Beard has very thin, smooth-edged leaves.

Salsify doesn't :-)

Damn. I posted too quickly. What I should have said is that's another
Tragopogon.

True, but I think the colour is a bit of a give-away. Isn't it really
just a purple Goat's Beard?

Sort of. It's normally described as a different species, but I don't
know how separate the species really are. I have given up growing it
in favour of scorzonera, which is more useful (e.g. you can blanch it
for salads, and eat its leaves as a green vegetable). I discovered
the last only recently, but it's really quite good. And, it's easier
to grow, being perennial.

I believe that you can do the same with the Tragopogons (including
T. pratensis), but haven't done it myself.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 19/05/2018 22:50, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Well, I knew it was Asteraceae (Compositae in pre-decimal currency), so
it was a matter of looking through the Comps in my book of British flora
(The Illustrated Flora of GB and Northern Europe - Blamey and
Grey-Wilson). It wasn't that difficult to find, as just about all other
Asteraceae have leaves with non-smooth edges, and they are fairly wide
to some extent or other. Goat's Beard has very thin, smooth-edged leaves.

Salsify doesn't :-)

Damn. I posted too quickly. What I should have said is that's another
Tragopogon.

True, but I think the colour is a bit of a give-away. Isn't it really
just a purple Goat's Beard?

Sort of. It's normally described as a different species, but I don't
know how separate the species really are. I have given up growing it
in favour of scorzonera, which is more useful (e.g. you can blanch it
for salads, and eat its leaves as a green vegetable). I discovered
the last only recently, but it's really quite good. And, it's easier
to grow, being perennial.

There's a cluster of species formed of T. pratensis pro parte, T. minor,
T. dubius and T. porrifolius pro parte. The North American neopolyploids
T. mirus and T. miscellus are T. dubius x T. porrifolius and T. dubius x
T. pratensis respectively. (The latter could be T. minor - it's not
usual practice to segregate it.) Other populations of T. pratensis and
T. porrifolius are more distantly related, and I need to read a few more
papers to find out what's going on, but the British populations of both
species appear to belong to the name-bearing taxa, and are therefore
close relations.

The hybrid T. x mirabilis is nearly sterile, so they do look like good
species. (The fertile Czech "T. x mirabilis" is not of this parentage.)

I believe that you can do the same with the Tragopogons (including
T. pratensis), but haven't done it myself.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.