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Disappearing lawn
I was sent over here from uk.d-i-y in the hope that you might be able to help me...
In June 2014 I removed the patio and subbase from our back garden and replaced it with Rolawn's Medallion turf sat on approx 6-8 inches of their Blended Loam topsoil. Underneath this was the original heavy clay subsoil. Here's how things looked once laid: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-jun2014.jpg A year later it was still going strong: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-aug2015.jpg However, the past few months have been a different story and we now have this shocking sight: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn1-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn2-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn3-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn4-feb2016.jpg Does anyone have any idea what has happened? As you can hopefully make out, there do not appear to be any weeds or moss but rather the grass has seemingly disappeared. Note also that some areas (in the last photo) are still relatively lush in appearance. We have always had some issues with earth worms and last year I was sweeping away casts regularly. Could this be it? I am assuming that I will ultimately end up reseeding, or at least overseeding, however I am keen to ensure that I understand what has happened and how to prevent it reoccurring. At the risk of biassing the diagnosis I thought I should share one thing with you: Last year I noticed that whenever I removed the odd weed that appeared in-between mowings I often found a 10-15mm long grub at the root of it. I thought nothing of this fact at the time however I have just been reading about leatherjackets and what damage they can do to a lawn. I can't help but wonder if that's what these grubs were and indeed if this is what has led to my loss? (And I really do mean loss - am feeling pretty sad at what has happened given how much effort it took for me to replace the previous completely-patio'd garden with a lawn!). Any thoughts and/or suggestions? Mathew |
#2
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Disappearing lawn
wrote:
Any thoughts and/or suggestions? You mention leatherjackets, which is plausible, though this would be a major infestation. I suspect waterlogging. How wet did it get in winter? Mine often has standing water & ends up with bare patches. How long do you cut it? Some grasses don't like being scalped. |
#4
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Disappearing lawn
In article ,
says... I was sent over here from uk.d-i-y in the hope that you might be able to help me... In June 2014 I removed the patio and subbase from our back garden and replaced it with Rolawn's Medallion turf sat on approx 6-8 inches of their Blended Loam topsoil. Underneath this was the original heavy clay subsoil. Here's how things looked once laid: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-jun2014.jpg A year later it was still going strong: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-aug2015.jpg However, the past few months have been a different story and we now have this shocking sight: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn1-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn2-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn3-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn4-feb2016.jpg Does anyone have any idea what has happened? As you can hopefully make out, there do not appear to be any weeds or moss but rather the grass has seemingly disappeared. Note also that some areas (in the last photo) are still relatively lush in appearance. We have always had some issues with earth worms and last year I was sweeping away casts regularly. Could this be it? I am assuming that I will ultimately end up reseeding, or at least overseeding, however I am keen to ensure that I understand what has happened and how to prevent it reoccurring. At the risk of biassing the diagnosis I thought I should share one thing with you: Last year I noticed that whenever I removed the odd weed that appeared in-between mowings I often found a 10-15mm long grub at the root of it. I thought nothing of this fact at the time however I have just been reading about leatherjackets and what damage they can do to a lawn. I can't help but wonder if that's what these grubs were and indeed if this is what has led to my loss? (And I really do mean loss - am feeling pretty sad at what has happened given how much effort it took for me to replace the previous completely-patio'd garden with a lawn!). Any thoughts and/or suggestions? Mathew See http://luxurylawns.co.uk/2015/09/29/...acket-warning/ Janet |
#5
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Disappearing lawn
Hi Martin,
Thank you for the comprehensive reply. I have responded inline: On Friday, 5 February 2016 17:57:39 UTC, Martin Brown wrote: What treatments if any have you applied to it? The only treatment I've ever applied has been a granulated spring/summer 'lawn feed' in June and August last year. I should admit, however, that in August I didn't water it in as we were expecting rain... which didn't occur. A few days later I noticed quite a few *very* yellow patches (tennis racket size max) and the affected areas completely died off. I reseeded these areas with Rolawn Medallion seed (i.e. same type as the turf) and all was restored. Waterlogging is a distinct possibility this wet year or over feeding or perhaps inappropriate dosage of weedkiller. Where abouts are you? Wiltshire (South West). It has been very wet however nothing I would describe as flooding. I do feel that the garden drains well - at least on the surface (no puddles or anything like that) but perhaps underneath (on the clay pan ~8" below) things are different? It takes a lot to kill grass. The lush bits look a bit too lush to me which is why I wonder about over feeding with nitrogen. As above, I could be guilty as charged - at least regarding leaving it on the surface but the dosage levels were right. I don't recall whether those small lush bits coincide with my reseeded bits or not. They do however represent the sort of size of damage I caused though. Worms don't usually retaliate like that. Although worms coming to the surface tends to suggest they were trying to avoid drowning in water sodden soil so they might be a symptom rather than a cause. I did think that earthworms would be eating rotting matter and not the roots. It is worrying to hear about the reason for surfacing though - perhaps this is indicative of poor drainage underneath then? Use a fencing spade to take a narrow spade deep chunk out of the worst affected bit and see if it fills with water quickly or overnight. Will do. I've just been out to dig a small hole (not big enough for your test though) and did find 2-3 grubs. Will catch and photo some tomorrow for identification. If it is that the punching a few drainage holes through the clay pan underneath will help a lot even though it is hard work. I don't mind that. I am finding it hard work seeing how bad the lawn is looking! ;-) How much wear does the lawn get? Very little - only the wife and I (and two cats). As you can probably surmise from the layout, it lends to only a couple of thoroughfares and we all (cats particularly!) tend to stick to them yet the problem is pretty much all over. It might grow back of its own accord when the weather improves - worth waiting before doing anything drastic. Will do. Walking on soggy lawn will potentially make the grass die by suffocating the roots. We are very much fair-weather outdoor types so we can rule that one out! Don't fret about it too much yet. Wait for spring to see if it comes back from the remaining roots before you do anything irreversible. Grass is quite good at recolonising ground when conditions are right. Thanks. It is reassuring to hear that all might not be lost. Wait until spring and then give the bare bits a good rake and mix in some sharp sand and peat followed by a grass seed with similar characteristics to your turf or maybe a bit harder wearing. Will do. I've got the majority left of Rolawn seed box and am assuming it lasts? (It it kept in a dry understairs cupboard). I'm a bit surprised by how bad it went so quickly. Given that it survived for the first year so well. What else might have happened in the Autumn that provoked such a serious level of die back? Nothing that I can think of (other than me not watering in the lawn feed). One other thing is that we used to have a cat that would regularly eat daddy long legs.. Sadly she passed away and the remaining one is too lazy to have taken over so the Aug/Sep 2015 season went unhunted... Do you have any intermediate pictures of its decline? Unfortunately not. Whilst it was photographed regularly during the build (http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/garden/) I've been too ashamed to capture anything on film since its demise started... It almost looks like it has been overgrazed by rabbits or something. The part near the step could well be caused by compaction. No rabbits! ;-) The bit around the step also sees very little use. It is however in shade during the winter months - indeed the whole garden arguably is. Thanks again for your time and input. Mathew |
#6
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Disappearing lawn
On Friday, 5 February 2016 17:56:12 UTC, Robert Harvey wrote:
You mention leatherjackets, which is plausible, though this would be a major infestation. I've just dug out a mugful of soil and found 2-3 grubs. If that density is uniform I guess this could be regarded as 'major'? I suspect waterlogging. How wet did it get in winter? Mine often has standing water & ends up with bare patches. It certainly felt like it didn't stop raining, however I don't think we ever saw standing water - but then we didn't really go in to the garden given how unappealing it is looking! How long do you cut it? Some grasses don't like being scalped. Rolawn recommend 25mm for their turf but I always found that felt like scalping and so went for 30mm. I do recall wondering if I had cut it too short for its last-cut-before-Winter trim though (I can't remember when that was now). Mathew |
#7
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Disappearing lawn
On 05/02/2016 16:56, wrote:
I was sent over here from uk.d-i-y in the hope that you might be able to help me... In June 2014 I removed the patio and subbase from our back garden and replaced it with Rolawn's Medallion turf sat on approx 6-8 inches of their Blended Loam topsoil. Underneath this was the original heavy clay subsoil. Here's how things looked once laid: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-jun2014.jpg A year later it was still going strong: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-aug2015.jpg However, the past few months have been a different story and we now have this shocking sight: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn1-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn2-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn3-feb2016.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn4-feb2016.jpg Does anyone have any idea what has happened? As you can hopefully make out, there do not appear to be any weeds or moss but rather the grass has seemingly disappeared. Note also that some areas (in the last photo) are still relatively lush in appearance. We have always had some issues with earth worms and last year I was sweeping away casts regularly. Could this be it? I am assuming that I will ultimately end up reseeding, or at least overseeding, however I am keen to ensure that I understand what has happened and how to prevent it reoccurring. At the risk of biassing the diagnosis I thought I should share one thing with you: Last year I noticed that whenever I removed the odd weed that appeared in-between mowings I often found a 10-15mm long grub at the root of it. I thought nothing of this fact at the time however I have just been reading about leatherjackets and what damage they can do to a lawn. I can't help but wonder if that's what these grubs were and indeed if this is what has led to my loss? (And I really do mean loss - am feeling pretty sad at what has happened given how much effort it took for me to replace the previous completely-patio'd garden with a lawn!). Any thoughts and/or suggestions? Mathew You don't say where about you are in the country. Some parts of the UK have hardly had a dry day since the beginning of October so waterloging could be a large part of the problem esp as you say you have underlying clay. Q. Is this a pan of clay or is it a deep layer that you cant break through? Q. Do you have water lying on the lawn after heavy rain? Q. After prolonged rain can you walk on the grass without feeling as if you are going to sink into the ground? Q. Do you have dogs or children playing on the grass? |
#8
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Disappearing lawn
Hi Dave
On Friday, 5 February 2016 19:28:00 UTC, Dave Hill wrote: You don't say where about you are in the country. Apologies - I am in Wiltshire (South West). Some parts of the UK have hardly had a dry day since the beginning of October so waterloging could be a large part of the problem esp as you say you have underlying clay. Yes, it has been very wet. Not flooding by any stretch but seemingly endlessly 'damp'. Q. Is this a pan of clay or is it a deep layer that you cant break through? In all honest I am not sure. When I dug out a deeply embedded washing line pole the clay seemed to go down at least 2 feet (the point at which the pole's concrete based come be removed). Q. Do you have water lying on the lawn after heavy rain? Not that I have noticed. I will be keeping a keener eye on things now that I am facing up to the problem. Q. After prolonged rain can you walk on the grass without feeling as if you are going to sink into the ground? I tend to stay off the grass when wet however the one time I did run out to rescue a broken fence I did feel that the ground was very soft. It had been very wet (the broken fence was storm damage) however I put the spongyness down to there being just soil and no grass given any structure. Q. Do you have dogs or children playing on the grass? No. Just two cats but they tend to stick to the exact same path each time (and I do mean exact - to the same foot prints every time!). |
#9
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Disappearing lawn
On 05/02/2016 19:57, Mathew Newton wrote:
Hi Dave On Friday, 5 February 2016 19:28:00 UTC, Dave Hill wrote: You don't say where about you are in the country. Apologies - I am in Wiltshire (South West). Some parts of the UK have hardly had a dry day since the beginning of October so waterloging could be a large part of the problem esp as you say you have underlying clay. Yes, it has been very wet. Not flooding by any stretch but seemingly endlessly 'damp'. Q. Is this a pan of clay or is it a deep layer that you cant break through? In all honest I am not sure. When I dug out a deeply embedded washing line pole the clay seemed to go down at least 2 feet (the point at which the pole's concrete based come be removed). Q. Do you have water lying on the lawn after heavy rain? Not that I have noticed. I will be keeping a keener eye on things now that I am facing up to the problem. Q. After prolonged rain can you walk on the grass without feeling as if you are going to sink into the ground? I tend to stay off the grass when wet however the one time I did run out to rescue a broken fence I did feel that the ground was very soft. It had been very wet (the broken fence was storm damage) however I put the spongyness down to there being just soil and no grass given any structure. Q. Do you have dogs or children playing on the grass? No. Just two cats but they tend to stick to the exact same path each time (and I do mean exact - to the same foot prints every time!). I'm wondering, when you got rid of the the patio and sub base did you clear it right away at the edges so that you were into soil or did you just clear the bulk and leave the edges? If you left the edges then you have probably created a semi pond so that the water is being slow to drain into the surrounding ground. at 2ft you most definitely have a clay subsoil and wont be able to dig through to break the pan. You will have to try to remove the edges though your neighbours might not like the thought of extra water at first, but they probably have the same problems to some extent. This drainage problem is probably why there was a patio there and not a lawn. The "Grubs" you have found wont make it ant better for the grass. Looking at your pictures again it looks as if you have built a brick Dam on the right hand side with no gaps between the bricks for water to drain out, and it's this; right hand side; that looks the worst hit. I wonder if this is the lowest point of your garden. On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have another prolonged soak like we are having for several years so over sowing in the spring could well give you a good lawn back. Don't worry about the worms, you just need to brush off the worm casts. We uses to use a birch broom swished across the grass to disperse them on bowling greens. Hope this helps a little. David @ a yet again wet and windy side of Swansea bay |
#10
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Disappearing lawn
On Friday, 5 February 2016 19:25:43 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
You mention leatherjackets, which is plausible, though this would be a major infestation. I've just dug out a mugful of soil and found 2-3 grubs. If that density is uniform I guess this could be regarded as 'major'? More like 'typical', I'd have thought. You could try covering a couple of square metres with carpet and black sheeting for 24 hours when the soil is damp. If, when you take it off, you have a couple of hundred leatherjackets, that would be bad. If you have ten, that's normal. Did you notice a lot of crane flies about at the end of last summer? If you had a major infestation I't expect a lot of birds feeding on the lawn, digging in the soul. Up to and including woodpeckers, they are very good at finding them. I think that purveyors of 'treatments' overstate the leatherjacket menace. |
#11
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Disappearing lawn
In article ,
David Hill wrote: On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have another prolonged soak like we are having for several years ... David -- I'd *love* to know what the basis for your saying this is! In the currently relentlessly miserable world (from floods to refugees to econonomic crises) that would be something to look forward to! (yeah yeah yeah --- we'll have droughts instead, huh? :-) Back on topic: Mathew: One of the first things I'd have done is email those pictures to the people who make the lawn (seeds?) (I've forgotten - you did mention the manufacturers in your first post). They after all are the real experts in lawns. FWIW -- my one view is that this is excessive rainfall. Best wishes John |
#12
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Disappearing lawn
On Friday, 5 February 2016 22:53:35 UTC, Dave Hill wrote:
I'm wondering, when you got rid of the the patio and sub base did you clear it right away at the edges so that you were into soil or did you just clear the bulk and leave the edges? I took advantage of the fact that I had both a skip and plenty of enthusiasm and so was fairly liberal with my clearance gettig rid of as much I could tell was 'not good' - this included the sand/cement sub-base obviously but also the more clayey of soil that resembled plasticine. If you left the edges then you have probably created a semi pond so that the water is being slow to drain into the surrounding ground. The brick walls will inevitably be causing an edge effect however the bottom of the garden underneath the decking is actually a recessed bowl. You can hopefully just about make this out in the following image (the turf is level with the top of those flags): http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/garden/#100_0943.JPG Furthermore, within that bowl (bottom right) is a rainwater drain manhole cover which, whilst not open, is not watertight and so I would expect it to allow some egress of excess water. This drainage problem is probably why there was a patio there and not a lawn. I was fearing that and hoping that the old(er) couple that lived here before were just a big fan of roses and flower beds! The "Grubs" you have found wont make it ant better for the grass. I lifted a square foot of weed fabric I laid down last night and found these (high res images for zooming): http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg (probably around 50 of these in a ball) http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg Looking at your pictures again it looks as if you have built a brick Dam on the right hand side with no gaps between the bricks for water to drain out, and it's this; right hand side; that looks the worst hit. There are some weep hole in the mortar joints but whether they are working I don't know. On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have another prolonged soak like we are having for several years so over sowing in the spring could well give you a good lawn back. Finger's crossed but I fear that this type of weather might be the shape of things to come! Hope this helps a little. It does; thanks David. Indeed thank you to everyone that has taken the time to chip in. Mathew |
#13
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Disappearing lawn
On Saturday, 6 February 2016 03:26:26 UTC, wrote:
More like 'typical', I'd have thought. You could try covering a couple of square metres with carpet and black sheeting for 24 hours when the soil is damp. If, when you take it off, you have a couple of hundred leatherjackets, that would be bad. If you have ten, that's normal. I did around a square *foot* and got this: (high res for zooming) http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg Of particular note were around 50 of these: http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg Which I am guessing are slightly more immature versions of these, of which there were a good 10-12? http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg Mathew |
#14
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Disappearing lawn
In article ,
Mathew Newton wrote: I lifted a square foot of weed fabric I laid down last night and found these (high res images for zooming): http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg (probably around 50 of these in a ball) http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg Wow! I revise my earlier diagnosis, such as it was, of "excessive rainfall" to "excessive pests as well as rainfall". I think you need to take steps. You could do with a local flock of starlings/jackdaws ... but failing that Janet's post earlier gave a link straight to some pest controllers. I'd ask your lawn suppliers if the have recommendations. I've never seen so many bugs in such a small area - ecchh! John |
#15
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Disappearing lawn
On Saturday, 6 February 2016 09:38:07 UTC, Another John wrote:
Back on topic: Mathew: One of the first things I'd have done is email those pictures to the people who make the lawn (seeds?) Excellent idea - have just sent them (Rolawn) an e-mail. FWIW -- my one view is that this is excessive rainfall. I am fearing that too, and in particular that I might be short of options to mitigate it in the future. I have never forked the lawn since laid - might this alone help? Presumably it should be done once the weather starts to dry in order to avoid further compaction (from the walking and forking)? Mathew |
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