On 20/12/15 01:14, Christina Websell wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On 17/12/15 17:47, Phil L wrote:
Nick Maclaren wrote:
One of the things I intend to do in my retirement is to relearn to
read French - I shall never speak it, because I can't hear it, but
I used to be able to read up to Pierre Boulle (not Camus, though).
I can hear northern German, but my knowledge is very limited.

How can you hear German but you can't hear French?

Supposedly 70% of basic English is derived from the
teutonic languages, whereas French is derived from Latin.

If you have an electronic or computer background, the
RPN nature of German won't bother you. Exception:
German to English simultaneous translators can't begin
their translation until they've heard the verb at
the end of the sentence

I lived in very rural Germany for 3 weeks. No-one except my friend spoke
any English so I know the German for hens, dogs, bees, hedgehogs. that sort
of stuff. Nouns only. Couldn't hold a conversation though. and even if did
speak what is called "high german" (equivalent of posh) no one there would
understand it much, they speak a dialect.

I learned German at school, so (with difficulty) I can
ask questions, but I probably won't understand the answers.

Curiously I've been told that nowadays Germans aren't
bothering as much with all the genitive and dative
declensions on their nouns. Oh, I wish that had been
the case back then!

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 10:21:14 +0000,
Tom Gardner wrote:

Curiously I've been told that nowadays Germans aren't
bothering as much with all the genitive and dative
declensions on their nouns. Oh, I wish that had been
the case back then!

Be careful with such information. There is a lot of polemic going on
about one case (the „Dativ“) being abused to create relations that it is
not meant to express. But should such tendencies become the norm, the
German language will be forced to, and will ultimately, produce a new
structure which must arrange the mess of all the confusions that are
coming up.

All those declension has a function. You cannot express the same things
by just omitting a case. The French tried that and had to replace
declension by pronouns to become more comprehensible again.

Apart from that. In a language, like German, where you invent new words
on the fly, what remains of the „beauty“ of the language, is found
nowadays in masterly application of the grammar. Not much else is left.

Anyway, generalizations must be avoided. „Nowadays“, „Germans“ and
„Nowadays Germans“ are terms in need of definitions, as I insist on the
diversity of attitudes and cultural background which have an influence
on the use of the German language. Where the observation is made, it is
not valid elsewhere on another day.

Michael

--
Location: Lower Normandy (Orne), France
New Key as of autumn 2015:
GnuPG brainpoolP512r1/5C2A258D 2015-10-02 [expires: 2017-10-01]
sub brainpoolP512r1/53461AFA 2015-10-02 [expires: 2017-10-01]

On 20/12/15 10:52, Michael Uplawski wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 10:21:14 +0000,
Tom Gardner wrote:

Curiously I've been told that nowadays Germans aren't
bothering as much with all the genitive and dative
declensions on their nouns. Oh, I wish that had been
the case back then!

Be careful with such information. There is a lot of polemic going on
about one case (the „Dativ“) being abused to create relations that it is
not meant to express. But should such tendencies become the norm, the
German language will be forced to, and will ultimately, produce a new
structure which must arrange the mess of all the confusions that are
coming up.

All those declension has a function. You cannot express the same things
by just omitting a case. The French tried that and had to replace
declension by pronouns to become more comprehensible again.

Apart from that. In a language, like German, where you invent new words
on the fly, what remains of the „beauty“ of the language, is found
nowadays in masterly application of the grammar. Not much else is left.

Anyway, generalizations must be avoided. „Nowadays“, „Germans“ and
„Nowadays Germans“ are terms in need of definitions, as I insist on the
diversity of attitudes and cultural background which have an influence
on the use of the German language. Where the observation is made, it is
not valid elsewhere on another day.

Sure. Unsurprising. You appear to be taking my
vague second-hand observations more seriously
than I intended.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 11:36:28 +0000,
Tom Gardner wrote:

Sure. Unsurprising. You appear to be taking my
vague second-hand observations more seriously
than I intended.

Unsurprising, because in English the phrase is determined by the
circumstances, not the invers, like in German. :-)
That's one of the difficulties of the English language.


--
Location: Lower Normandy (Orne), France
New Key as of autumn 2015:
GnuPG brainpoolP512r1/5C2A258D 2015-10-02 [expires: 2017-10-01]
sub brainpoolP512r1/53461AFA 2015-10-02 [expires: 2017-10-01]

On 20/12/15 11:45, Michael Uplawski wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 11:36:28 +0000,
Tom Gardner wrote:

Sure. Unsurprising. You appear to be taking my
vague second-hand observations more seriously
than I intended.

Unsurprising, because in English the phrase is determined by the
circumstances, not the invers, like in German. :-)
That's one of the difficulties of the English language.

Some have claimed that French is the language of diplomats,
since it is less easy to be misunderstood in French than it
is in English.

Personally I suspect it is easy enough to be "economical
with the actualité" in French!
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/127700.html