In article ,
says...

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 06/12/2015 17:16, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 05/12/2015 20:44, Christina Websell wrote:
Americans think they speak English, I can assure them that they don't.

"Do you speak English?"
"Yes, and I understand American"

Bob Heinlein, Glory Road. And he was a Yank...


I remember going on a AAA course at Motspur park in the mid 50's. The
course was headed by Jeff Dyson who was the national head coach.
As he was lecturing he would often come out with "and I say unto thee".
On that course was a lad from Cornwall, it wasn't till the 3rd day I
realised he was talking English,between his accent and his dialect.
Also when I was market gardening outside Hastings in the early 60's we had
a driver come down form Fort William to pick up some stuff we were
selling. My Boss was Irish but had been a fighter pilot in the war,
Margaret was Sussex born and bred and owing to my Father being a Captain
in the RFA I had been to many parts of the UK when he was home and we were
on board ship with him.
I found myself acting as an interpretor between My Boss and the driver.
So much for a common language in the UK.


I so disagree with this. I can understand every accent and dialect in the
Uk, and I'm surprised by this post. As I said upthread my only difficulty
is with *extreme* Glaswegian.

Then I doubt very much you have ever heard Doric, or broad Ayrshire.
Galloway or Aberdeen.

Janet

In article ,
says...

On 6/12/2015 11:30 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 06/12/15 12:05, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 6/12/2015 8:25 PM, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:12:51 +1100, Fran Farmer
wrote:

On 6/12/2015 8:43 AM, Christina Websell wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 05/12/2015 20:44, Christina Websell wrote:


Americans think they speak English, I can assure them that they
don't.



Glad that has been sorted out once and for all.

grin Americans used to speak English once: now it's American.

I saw a very interesting TV show quite a few years ago on just this
topic. It suggested that the English now spoken by Americans is more
like the English spoken in the UK a few centuries ago than the sort of
English now spoken in the UK.

The show cited both words still used by Americans that have changed use
over time in the UK and the accent. One example I recall is the way
Americans still use the word "kettle" (ie, a cooking pot, not a spouted
water boiling thingamabob) which is the way it used to be used in
the UK
centuries ago. Also the accent in the long "a" when American say
"bath"
is the way it used to be said in the UK centuries ago.

The way bath is pronounced in UK depends on where one comes from.

Do those places in the UK pronounce "bath" with a long "a" in an American
fashion or do you just mean that there are regional variations of the
way the
word "bath" is said?

In the NW at least it is pronounced with a short "a", whereas
in the south it is pronounced "barth" with a long "a".

When I used the term "long 'a'" I was trying to convey how I've heard
Americans say 'bath' which is less like 'barth' but more like the 'a' in
'bat'.

I hear American bath as having the long A in Mary. Which is nothing
like the long-A (barth) bath heard in UK

Janet (short a)

In article ,
says...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:12:51 +1100, Fran Farmer
wrote:

On 6/12/2015 8:43 AM, Christina Websell wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 05/12/2015 20:44, Christina Websell wrote:


Americans think they speak English, I can assure them that they don't.



Glad that has been sorted out once and for all.

grin Americans used to speak English once: now it's American.

I saw a very interesting TV show quite a few years ago on just this
topic. It suggested that the English now spoken by Americans is more
like the English spoken in the UK a few centuries ago than the sort of
English now spoken in the UK.

The show cited both words still used by Americans that have changed use
over time in the UK and the accent. One example I recall is the way
Americans still use the word "kettle" (ie, a cooking pot, not a spouted
water boiling thingamabob) which is the way it used to be used in the UK
centuries ago. Also the accent in the long "a" when American say "bath"
is the way it used to be said in the UK centuries ago.

The way bath is pronounced in UK depends on where one comes from.
--
English is constantly evolving and it evolves from the UK.

Nonsense. English is like Japanese Knotweed; once it leaves its native
habitat and escapes into the wild, it rapidly adapts to new conditions
and can no longer be said to belong exclusively to Japan or the
Japanese.

it's our language

Hardly! It used to be numerous other peoples' furrin languages before
we acquired them second hand.

Maybe henceforth you're going to eschew the use of any such word that
came from Latin, French, German, Hindi, Irish, Dutch, Norse, or Greek.

Janet

Tom Gardner wrote:

It might help if that explained /why/ they are saying it.

I can't comment on Cameron, but the American says anything that will get
him on tonight's news. And they fall for it every time!


--
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

On 8/12/2015 6:36 AM, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

I so disagree with this. I can understand every accent and dialect in the
Uk, and I'm surprised by this post. As I said upthread my only difficulty
is with *extreme* Glaswegian.

Then I doubt very much you have ever heard Doric, or broad Ayrshire.
Galloway or Aberdeen.

Both you and someone whose nym is News refered to Doric. I very vaguely
recall having once before heard reference to it at some time in the past
and nto a reference to it being Greek in ay way, pertaining to Scotland.

I've now done some reading up on it. Thank you Janet and News.

On 8/12/2015 6:40 AM, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 6/12/2015 11:30 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 06/12/15 12:05, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 6/12/2015 8:25 PM, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:12:51 +1100, Fran Farmer
wrote:

On 6/12/2015 8:43 AM, Christina Websell wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 05/12/2015 20:44, Christina Websell wrote:


Americans think they speak English, I can assure them that they
don't.



Glad that has been sorted out once and for all.

grin Americans used to speak English once: now it's American.

I saw a very interesting TV show quite a few years ago on just this
topic. It suggested that the English now spoken by Americans is more
like the English spoken in the UK a few centuries ago than the sort of
English now spoken in the UK.

The show cited both words still used by Americans that have changed use
over time in the UK and the accent. One example I recall is the way
Americans still use the word "kettle" (ie, a cooking pot, not a spouted
water boiling thingamabob) which is the way it used to be used in
the UK
centuries ago. Also the accent in the long "a" when American say
"bath"
is the way it used to be said in the UK centuries ago.

The way bath is pronounced in UK depends on where one comes from.

Do those places in the UK pronounce "bath" with a long "a" in an American
fashion or do you just mean that there are regional variations of the
way the
word "bath" is said?

In the NW at least it is pronounced with a short "a", whereas
in the south it is pronounced "barth" with a long "a".

When I used the term "long 'a'" I was trying to convey how I've heard
Americans say 'bath' which is less like 'barth' but more like the 'a' in
'bat'.

I hear American bath as having the long A in Mary. Which is nothing
like the long-A (barth) bath heard in UK

:-)) I've been sitting here saying "Mary" multiple times and there is no
way known that I can't get Mary to sound anything like the American way
of saying bath. Darned Colonial accent up against Anglo/Scots
accent!!!! The things one does as a result of reading newsgroups....

Janet (short a)

That one I can say!

Martin wrote:

Actually, I think color is almost acceptable in the UK;

Not to me

Nor to me.

I think if you are living in a coding environment
you have to write "color", and then after a time it seems normal
to write it that way even if not coding.

I'm writing this with an american spell-checker.
I probably could change this, but it is easier
just to follow what the checker wants,
eg realized rather than realised.
(I see now that this is not necessarily an americanism -
a word my checker does not seem to like,
maybe she wants a capital Americanism, yes.)

--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

Timothy Murphy wrote:

I'm writing this with an american spell-checker.

I see a new reality show:


Linguist's death match!

Webster's vs. the OED!!!

file cards at five paces!

Now, I need to google the history of those organiz....erm...sations!


--
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

In article ,
Martin wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2015 13:20:19 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:

Actually, I think color is almost acceptable in the UK;

Not to me

Nor to me.

I think if you are living in a coding environment
you have to write "color", and then after a time it seems normal
to write it that way even if not coding.

I lived in a coding environment. I don't recall ever writing "color".

The languages, libraries etc. where 'color' is a name are a minority,
but it is not a small minority. I am disinclined to do a check of
a selection of them to estimate the proportion. While there have
been some where 'colour' was a name, I know of none that survive in
active use today.

However, it is NOT true that most reasonably literate users of the
word 'colour' change their usage as a result of using such environments,
and it is common for the comments to use 'colour' except when referring
to the name.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Martin wrote:

I lived in a coding environment. I don't recall ever writing "color".

Me too. I always make a point of ensuring that I always write "colour".

It does slightly annoy me when I have to use API calls that use "color"
though, as it doesn't look neat!

--
Chris

In article ,
CT wrote:
Martin wrote:

I lived in a coding environment. I don't recall ever writing "color".

Me too. I always make a point of ensuring that I always write "colour".

It does slightly annoy me when I have to use API calls that use "color"
though, as it doesn't look neat!

Nor does colour, if you are French! And what about programme?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
CT wrote:

It does slightly annoy me when I have to use API calls that use
"color" though, as it doesn't look neat!

Nor does colour, if you are French! And what about programme?

Strangely, program for programme doesn't bother me so much. I think I
have a distinction so that in IT it's always "computer program" but for
anything else it's "programme", as in "TV programme" or "programme of
events".

--
Chris

Martin wrote:

Actually, I think color is almost acceptable in the UK;

Not to me

Nor to me.

I think if you are living in a coding environment
you have to write "color", and then after a time it seems normal
to write it that way even if not coding.

I lived in a coding environment. I don't recall ever writing "color".

Really?
Do you never use HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Java, ... ?

--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

"Fran Farmer" wrote in message
...
On 7/12/2015 11:05 AM, Christina Websell wrote:
"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:12:51 +1100, Fran Farmer
wrote:

On 6/12/2015 8:43 AM, Christina Websell wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 05/12/2015 20:44, Christina Websell wrote:


Americans think they speak English, I can assure them that they
don't.



Glad that has been sorted out once and for all.

grin Americans used to speak English once: now it's American.

I saw a very interesting TV show quite a few years ago on just this
topic. It suggested that the English now spoken by Americans is more
like the English spoken in the UK a few centuries ago than the sort of
English now spoken in the UK.

The show cited both words still used by Americans that have changed use
over time in the UK and the accent. One example I recall is the way
Americans still use the word "kettle" (ie, a cooking pot, not a spouted
water boiling thingamabob) which is the way it used to be used in the
UK
centuries ago. Also the accent in the long "a" when American say
"bath"
is the way it used to be said in the UK centuries ago.

The way bath is pronounced in UK depends on where one comes from.
--
English is constantly evolving and it evolves from the UK. Because we are
English and it's our language.

"OUR"????

Americans speak American. Do you have a
faucet in your house, does your car have a hood or fender? I rest my
case.

I'd say, first put forward a case.


for what? English is English, American is American. American is a derative
of English: it was once English, now it isn't.

"Janet" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:12:51 +1100, Fran Farmer
wrote:

On 6/12/2015 8:43 AM, Christina Websell wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 05/12/2015 20:44, Christina Websell wrote:


Americans think they speak English, I can assure them that they
don't.



Glad that has been sorted out once and for all.

grin Americans used to speak English once: now it's American.

I saw a very interesting TV show quite a few years ago on just this
topic. It suggested that the English now spoken by Americans is more
like the English spoken in the UK a few centuries ago than the sort of
English now spoken in the UK.

The show cited both words still used by Americans that have changed use
over time in the UK and the accent. One example I recall is the way
Americans still use the word "kettle" (ie, a cooking pot, not a spouted
water boiling thingamabob) which is the way it used to be used in the
UK
centuries ago. Also the accent in the long "a" when American say
"bath"
is the way it used to be said in the UK centuries ago.

The way bath is pronounced in UK depends on where one comes from.
--
English is constantly evolving and it evolves from the UK.

Nonsense. English is like Japanese Knotweed; once it leaves its native
habitat and escapes into the wild, it rapidly adapts to new conditions
and can no longer be said to belong exclusively to Japan or the
Japanese.

it's our language

Hardly! It used to be numerous other peoples' furrin languages before
we acquired them second hand.

Maybe henceforth you're going to eschew the use of any such word that
came from Latin, French, German, Hindi, Irish, Dutch, Norse, or Greek.

Janet

True English only evolves in the UK.