On 22/07/2015 09:55, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 22/07/2015 5:56 PM, Nick Maclaren wrote:
People unfamiliar with the conditions should look at the Climate FAQ
(www.u-r-g.co.uk/faqclimate.htm). Measuring the hardness of winters
by lowest temperature alone doesn't map well into plant hardiness,
and our short, cool summers are as much of a problem as the winters
to many plants (and especially fruit).

Janet might be able to grow Chinese gooseberry (Kiwi fruit), but
I suspect not, and doubt very much that it would fruit. It does

It might in a warm year. Not that they are worth the effort.

in the south of the UK, and in a warm position (e.g. on a suitable
wall). Similarly, avocado might grow on the south coast or even
in the smokes (er, Middlesex), but the same applies.

Unless the OP plants their 12 inch avo, they will never know if the
plant will grow and fruit or if it will not.

The least bad chance is somewhere more or less frost free on the SW
coast but the summer will never be warm enough to get any fruit even if
the tree just about manages to stay alive (which I doubt).

A lot of garden advice is "knowledge" that is simply recycled endlessly
without that "knowledge" ever being put to the test.


I have played around growing things unsuited to UK conditions outside. I
have cacti growing outdoors carefully chosen and large enough to survive
but growing is all that can be said for them they take bad frost damage
and are unsightly. A sheet of glass or plastic to keep the rain off and
very sharp drainage on a raised bed helps.

In a bad year I lose them and have lost an expensive tree fern I reckon
on a single night where I failed to anticipate a late frost and cover it.

I planted my mandarin tree when I went to visit a woman who had these 2
huge mandarin trees on either side of her front door. I said to her and
I KNEW they wouldn't grow where she lived. Her response is that every
single gardener who visited her told her the exact same thing and the
mandarins just kept on ignoring such advice.

I can grow citrus in pots outdoors in summer and under glass in winter.
They would be very unhappy planted outside in a cold foggy air and wet
waterlogged ground.

There are numerous techniques that can be used to get plants to grow
where they supposedly won't. Just one example I've seen is where grapes
were grown in 6 ft deep slit trenches with corrugated clear roofing
sheets on top of them. The grapes were growing well and had fruit and
the owner of those grapes had been told that he couldn't grow grapes in
his climate so he set out to prove he could do it. His worst problem
was kangaroos jumping on the roofing and falling through.

Grapes are easy under glass even in the UK. There are working vineyards
for winemaking now as far north as 54 degrees. Edith Sitwells Renishaw
Hall used to be the most northerly until comparatively recently.

http://www.renishaw-hall.co.uk/your-visit/vineyard.aspx

The record is (probably) still held by Mount Pleasant wines in Camforth
at 54.1N

http://www.ukvines.co.uk/vineyards/mount.htm

Since the OP asked for any advice, mine is to plant their 12 inch plant.
It may grow. It may even fruit. They won't know until they test it out.

It will almost certainly die in the first winter. But no great loss. It
will only ever be a leggy stick with a few leaves on the end. I have
grown one in Frodsham Cheshire and planted it out with predictable
results. Nectarine with shelter was almost successful by comparison.

I have also grown under glass (heated greenhouse) and lost a jacaranda
tree and various other exotics. Some things are not as tender as people
would have you believe but most things that are frost hardy in a dry
cold continental winter are very difficult in a dismal wet UK one.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/07/2015 09:55, Fran Farmer wrote:

Similarly, avocado might grow on the south coast or even
in the smokes (er, Middlesex), but the same applies.

Unless the OP plants their 12 inch avo, they will never know if the
plant will grow and fruit or if it will not.

The least bad chance is somewhere more or less frost free on the SW
coast but the summer will never be warm enough to get any fruit even if
the tree just about manages to stay alive (which I doubt).

Assuming the common one, they are functionally dioecious, need
18 Celsius to set, and take over a year for the fruit to mature,
they will go well with roast pork from the first flying pigs of the
season. Even the others take over 6 months for the fruit to mature.

Actually, I think that the tree might well survive in Torbay or
the Isles of Scilly.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 22/07/2015 8:39 PM, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Fran Farmer wrote:

Unless the OP plants their 12 inch avo, they will never know if the
plant will grow and fruit or if it will not.

A lot of garden advice is "knowledge" that is simply recycled endlessly
without that "knowledge" ever being put to the test.

It is, but not typically on this group.

I agree with that "not typically".

When I've seen some very dodgy advice here from people who I usually
think know what they are on about, someone usually takes up the issue to
get them back on track. Thankfully.

Quite a lot of people have
planted avocados, and few (if any) have lived.London has a very
warm microclimate, so it might (though I suspect not), but thinking
it might fruit there is deluding oneself.

Dave Poole says they have been known to do so. I never thought that he
told lies or didn't know his stuff. You participated in that thread in
April 2006.
Start quote,
Dave Poole writes:
|
| It does produce in the UK and if you are geographically fortunate, you
| may even pick a moderate crop of palatable fruits after a decent
| summer. They will not be as large as those in the shops, but be
| grateful - this is England and they normally do their stuff in far
| warmer places. If you are so inclined, grow your seedling on for a
| year, keep it frost free next winter and plant it out during late May
| in a sunny corner. Nay-sayers may think otherwise, but I rate it quite
| highly, but only for the south.

Interesting. I didn't get around to posting, but it is definitely a
SUB-tropical plant, and it takes light frost in California, Africa etc.
Apparently, there are a couple of species that are hardier, but I don't
think that any would survive in my garden :-(

On an unrelated matter, my Feijoa came through last winter in a pot
with no protection and without dropping leaves - and the soil froze
several times. That is most definitely a plant that deserves more
attention. My pomegranate did, too, but I didn't expect that to
worry too much about frost as such.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
End quote

There was one other paragraph in Dave Poole's post which you snipped
when you replied and the OP would, given their question, be interested
in part of that paragraph, viz:
"If you live within the Greater London conurbation, along
sheltered parts of the south coast or in the far south west, you can
successfully grow avocados to near tree-like proportions if you can
provide wind shelter. As a 3-5 foot high, spindly 'twig' in a pot, it
is a very dull plant indeed. Grown to a few to several metres high and
across, it makes a very impressive shrub or tree with fine foliage."

The OP may also be interested to know that Avocados grow well in NZ
where we saw then growing as street trees in the North Island. I doubt
that many Kiwis would think that that North Island had a "sub-tropical"
climate. Maritime, yes, sub tropical, no.

Citrus is a much more UK-tolerant range of plants.

If you believe that then you will be happy to know that the book I
mentioned in an earlier post about a man who grows fruit out of the
range in which the experts say they will grow, says that Avocado are
hardier than lemons even though int he early years it needs more
protection than do lemons.

On 22/07/2015 10:51 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/07/2015 09:55, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 22/07/2015 5:56 PM, Nick Maclaren wrote:
People unfamiliar with the conditions should look at the Climate FAQ
(www.u-r-g.co.uk/faqclimate.htm). Measuring the hardness of winters
by lowest temperature alone doesn't map well into plant hardiness,
and our short, cool summers are as much of a problem as the winters
to many plants (and especially fruit).

Janet might be able to grow Chinese gooseberry (Kiwi fruit), but
I suspect not, and doubt very much that it would fruit. It does

It might in a warm year. Not that they are worth the effort.

I'm not keen on eating them so I've never bothered to grow them.

in the south of the UK, and in a warm position (e.g. on a suitable
wall). Similarly, avocado might grow on the south coast or even
in the smokes (er, Middlesex), but the same applies.

Unless the OP plants their 12 inch avo, they will never know if the
plant will grow and fruit or if it will not.

The least bad chance is somewhere more or less frost free on the SW
coast but the summer will never be warm enough to get any fruit even if
the tree just about manages to stay alive (which I doubt).

Well unless Dave Pole was telling porkies, he said they will grow and
fruit in a good season in London. I always considered him to know his
stuff.

A lot of garden advice is "knowledge" that is simply recycled endlessly
without that "knowledge" ever being put to the test.


I have played around growing things unsuited to UK conditions outside. I
have cacti growing outdoors carefully chosen and large enough to survive
but growing is all that can be said for them they take bad frost damage
and are unsightly.A sheet of glass or plastic to keep the rain off and
very sharp drainage on a raised bed helps.

Yep. I grow cacti/succulenty things under a huge conifer in my potting
slum or in my sunroom, but I also have a range that grow outside right
throughout the garden and they dont's seem to suffer from the regular -6
temps (or at least I don't notice as by the end of winter, no British
gardener would bother to even take a second glance at my garden. I
don't have to worry about keeping their feet dry, rather the reverse. I
do have a Brit born friend who has an enormous range of cacti and he has
a tiny glass house where he has a few, but he also has a huge outdoor
area full of them. Some of them are enormous. I got the ones I grow
under the conifer from him but I now longer have any idea what their
names might be.

In a bad year I lose them and have lost an expensive tree fern I reckon
on a single night where I failed to anticipate a late frost and cover it.

That's sad. I hate late frosts and wouldn't attempt to grow tree ferns
here without good canopy cover to protect them.

I planted my mandarin tree when I went to visit a woman who had these 2
huge mandarin trees on either side of her front door. I said to her and
I KNEW they wouldn't grow where she lived. Her response is that every
single gardener who visited her told her the exact same thing and the
mandarins just kept on ignoring such advice.

I can grow citrus in pots outdoors in summer and under glass in winter.
They would be very unhappy planted outside in a cold foggy air and wet
waterlogged ground.

Have you tried planting them up on mounds? My lemon certainly doesn't
like the cold we get here but it's right next to the house so although
it sulks in the extreme cold, I now don't have to cover it in winter and
once the warmer conditions come and it gets a good feed, it recovers well.

The reason why I mentioned the mound planting is that the chap I knew
who planted grapes in the slit trench also had areas of water logged
ground and so he used to plant trees that hated water logging up on
mounds. It worked very well for him.

There are numerous techniques that can be used to get plants to grow
where they supposedly won't. Just one example I've seen is where grapes
were grown in 6 ft deep slit trenches with corrugated clear roofing
sheets on top of them. The grapes were growing well and had fruit and
the owner of those grapes had been told that he couldn't grow grapes in
his climate so he set out to prove he could do it. His worst problem
was kangaroos jumping on the roofing and falling through.

Grapes are easy under glass even in the UK. There are working vineyards
for winemaking now as far north as 54 degrees. Edith Sitwells Renishaw
Hall used to be the most northerly until comparatively recently.

http://www.renishaw-hall.co.uk/your-visit/vineyard.aspx

The record is (probably) still held by Mount Pleasant wines in Camforth
at 54.1N

http://www.ukvines.co.uk/vineyards/mount.htm

Since the OP asked for any advice, mine is to plant their 12 inch plant.
It may grow. It may even fruit. They won't know until they test it
out.

It will almost certainly die in the first winter. But no great loss.

NO, but at least they will know and they may prove that Dave Poole was
right and knew what he was talking about when he said that they could be
grown and would fruit in a good summer. No doubt it is a seedling so
the OP would probably be better off just buying areal Bacon or Zutano if
they could find a source for one, but they've lost nothing if they lose
a home grown seedling.

It
will only ever be a leggy stick with a few leaves on the end. I have
grown one in Frodsham Cheshire and planted it out with predictable
results. Nectarine with shelter was almost successful by comparison.

I have also grown under glass (heated greenhouse) and lost a jacaranda
tree and various other exotics. Some things are not as tender as people
would have you believe but most things that are frost hardy in a dry
cold continental winter are very difficult in a dismal wet UK one.

Try mounds for those plants that you think certain plants don't like
wet. And all winters reach the stage of being dismal IMO. It's at that
stage here now. I'm sick of Long Johns and cold and big fat coats that
restrict movement. Still, there are early spring signs so it won't be
too long now.

In message , Pam Moore
writes
Avocado can make a good houseplant, but will soon get too big. Grow it
for a year or two but unless you have a conservatory it will soon
outgrow its space. If you want to get one to fruit move to somewhere
like Barbados!

Friends of mine have had an avocado for some years. It got too tall, so
they cut it back a few years a go, and it continues to grow happily
--
Chris French