I called in at one of the agricultural merchants in the area, I say
Agricultural merchant, but like all of them now they are glorified rural
supermarkets for horse owners etc. They were taken over a couple of
years ago and are now part of the Wynnstay group, a group of around 50
stores.
Well to get to the point, I said something about the Grandfathers rights
ending in November and the problems that would bring re buying
chemicals. but 2 of the staff were at a meeting a couple of weeks ago
and were told that they could still sell chemicals as long as they were
told that they were going to be used by a trained person. No paperwork
would have to be produced.
That's not what I have read, it's going to be chaotic by the looks of
things.
David @ a now damp side of Swansea bay.

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:50:52 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

I called in at one of the agricultural merchants in the area, I say
Agricultural merchant, but like all of them now they are glorified rural
supermarkets for horse owners etc. They were taken over a couple of
years ago and are now part of the Wynnstay group, a group of around 50
stores.
Well to get to the point, I said something about the Grandfathers rights
ending in November and the problems that would bring re buying
chemicals. but 2 of the staff were at a meeting a couple of weeks ago
and were told that they could still sell chemicals as long as they were
told that they were going to be used by a trained person. No paperwork
would have to be produced.
That's not what I have read, it's going to be chaotic by the looks of
things.
David @ a now damp side of Swansea bay.

Not having a clue what you were on about, I looked it up and found the
following, that may help those as ignorant as I was.

http://tinyurl.com/m4aex59

A current exemption in UK law, commonly known as "grandfather rights",
allows anyone born before 31 December 1964, to use plant protection
products (PPPs ) authorised for professional use on their own or their
employer's land, without having to hold a certificate (of competence)
although they should still be suitably trained and competent for their
job. The Plant Protection Products (Sustainable Use) Regulations 2012
allows this exemption to continue until 26 November 2015, after which
everyone who uses PPPs authorised for professional use must have a
certificate.

In addition, after 26 November 2015, it will be an offence for anyone
to purchase PPPs authorised for professional use unless they have
ensured that the intended end user has a certificate.

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales

I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that come
the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has been ok up
to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but the other part
of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size
will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless
they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The
course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the
trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere
near the stuff just be present somewhere!

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote:

I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that
come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has
been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but
the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above
a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to
the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on
said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It
does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling
or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere!


Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products?

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 May 2015 10:17:19 +0100, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:

but the other part
of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size
will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless
they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The
course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that
the
trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be
anywhere
near the stuff just be present somewhere!


Charlie, would that include garden centres such as Wyvale, and even
smaller nurseries who might stock small quantities of garden
chemicals, or even places like DIY sheds such as B&Q? Or to put it
another way, how small does the retail outlet have to be before it
doesn't qualify?

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales

Apparently based on turnover and it was a multiple of millions but I cant
recall the exact amount, totally useless requirement, but its made someone
think they have safe guarded the public (most of whom are brighter than the
numpties who dream up these stupid ideas.

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote:

I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that
come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has
been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but
the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above
a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to
the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on
said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It
does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling
or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere!


Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products?

Its every thing, slug bait, weed killers , fertilizers, pesticides,
fungicides, the lot

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

Chris Hogg wrote:

Charlie Pridham wrote:

retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell
garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a
trained member of staff to give advice on said products.

how small does the retail outlet have to be
before it doesn't qualify?

I read that "small" means under 10 employees; if the head-count varies
seasonally, then it must be under 10 for more of the year than it's over 10.

On 17/05/15 19:43, Charlie Pridham wrote:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote:

I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that
come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has
been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but
the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above
a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to
the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on
said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It
does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling
or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere!


Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products?

Its every thing, slug bait, weed killers , fertilizers, pesticides,
fungicides, the lot

You could always try the original paleonicotinoid by soaking some old
ciggies in water and spraying that. Or if they are too expensive, a few
seeds of Nicotiana tabacum should supply you with enough leaves to do
all your plants.

Just don't mention it to elf'n'safety...

--

Jeff

On 17/05/15 19:43, Charlie Pridham wrote:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote:

I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that
come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has
been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but
the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above
a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to
the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on
said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It
does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling
or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere!


Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products?

Its every thing, slug bait, weed killers , fertilizers, pesticides,
fungicides, the lot


Oh that is so brain dead.

I suspect it will not affect the online suppliers as they will either be
big enough to have the person or they will be outside Britain and not
care...

Over in uk.l.m someone was talking about the obscene amount of new
statues and SIs that are appearing every year.

Do these idiots have nothing better to do?

My man-on-the-bus fag-in-on-hand-pint-in-the-other take:

Include the COSHH leaflet. Print the very basics on the packet
(Poison/harmful etc) - job done.

On 17/05/2015 20:08, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:

Charlie Pridham wrote:

retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell
garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a
trained member of staff to give advice on said products.

how small does the retail outlet have to be
before it doesn't qualify?

I read that "small" means under 10 employees; if the head-count varies
seasonally, then it must be under 10 for more of the year than it's over
10.

Would that be per branch?

David Hill wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I read that "small" means under 10 employees; if the head-count varies
seasonally, then it must be under 10 for more of the year than it's over
10.

Would that be per branch?

Looks like it's per company, search within the PDF for "micro"

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/Resources/CRD/Migrated-Resources/Documents/P/Plant_Protection_Products_(Sustainable_Use)_Regula tions_2012.pdf

On 17/05/2015 20:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 17 May 2015 20:10:23 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:


You could always try the original paleonicotinoid by soaking some old
ciggies in water and spraying that. Or if they are too expensive, a few
seeds of Nicotiana tabacum should supply you with enough leaves to do
all your plants.

Just don't mention it to elf'n'safety...

http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_4884401_ma...secticide.html


Interesting. I buy nicotine solution for ecigarettes. Not particularly
cheap but not too bad. The one I get comes in 72mg per ml (in a
propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine base). This isn't the strength
used in the final liquid - that is usually reduced to between 5 and 36
ml depending on choice/nicotine addiction by adding flavouring and more
pg/vg ).

Any idea what sort of concentrations should be in an imaginary spray?

Not of course that I'm going to do it - purely hypothetical.

--
regards andy

On 18/05/15 15:08, Wilkes, Andy wrote:
On 17/05/2015 20:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 17 May 2015 20:10:23 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:


You could always try the original paleonicotinoid by soaking some old
ciggies in water and spraying that. Or if they are too expensive, a few
seeds of Nicotiana tabacum should supply you with enough leaves to do
all your plants.

Just don't mention it to elf'n'safety...

http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_4884401_ma...secticide.html


Interesting. I buy nicotine solution for ecigarettes. Not particularly
cheap but not too bad. The one I get comes in 72mg per ml (in a
propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine base). This isn't the strength
used in the final liquid - that is usually reduced to between 5 and 36
ml depending on choice/nicotine addiction by adding flavouring and more
pg/vg ).

Any idea what sort of concentrations should be in an imaginary spray?

Not of course that I'm going to do it - purely hypothetical.

A very old book I have (1935) on use of various insecticides in
greenhouses gives a concentration of 1 oz of 98% nicotine to 12 gallons
of water.

The trouble is that unlike modern insecticides, those from 80 years ago
are deadly to us in a very short time. Screw up and you /don't/ get a
second chance. You may find it interesting that the book recommends
glasshouse fumigation by using cyanide! That's bad enough, but the
method would give kittens to even those who care little about
elf'n'safety. Basically, you put a jar of conc sulphuric acid in the
middle of the greenhouse, and drop solid potassium cyanide in it. Then
run for the door, making sure you don't trip on the way out!

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

The trouble is that unlike modern insecticides, those from 80 years ago
are deadly to us in a very short time. Screw up and you /don't/ get a
second chance. You may find it interesting that the book recommends
glasshouse fumigation by using cyanide! That's bad enough, but the
method would give kittens to even those who care little about
elf'n'safety. Basically, you put a jar of conc sulphuric acid in the
middle of the greenhouse, and drop solid potassium cyanide in it. Then
run for the door, making sure you don't trip on the way out!

Merely strong dilute, surely? Concentrated would oxidise quite
quite a lot of the cyanide on the way out!

Apparently, that method was used on ships against rats, had to
be done in the hold (cyanide is very light), and the electricity
had to be off. The people who did it needed to study the way
out when on the way in very carefully! That's reliable second-
hand information, by the way.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Mon, 18 May 2015 19:43:17 +0100 (BST),
(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Basically, you put a jar of conc sulphuric acid in the
middle of the greenhouse, and drop solid potassium cyanide in it. Then
run for the door, making sure you don't trip on the way out!

Merely strong dilute, surely? Concentrated would oxidise quite
quite a lot of the cyanide on the way out!

Apparently, that method was used on ships against rats, had to
be done in the hold (cyanide is very light), and the electricity
had to be off.

And how executions were done in some American states , some will
remember the film(s) I Want To Live ! which in both the 50's original
and 80's remake show the bag of cyanide being lowered into the acid
container situated below the condemned fairly graphically.


G.Harman

On 18/05/15 19:43, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,

Merely strong dilute, surely? Concentrated would oxidise quite
quite a lot of the cyanide on the way out!

You are, or course, correct. Not sure why I put "Conc". It actually
states 1:2 sulphuric acid: water, making it around 33%.

Apparently, that method was used on ships against rats, had to
be done in the hold (cyanide is very light), and the electricity
had to be off. The people who did it needed to study the way
out when on the way in very carefully! That's reliable second-
hand information, by the way.

No doubt. Makes you wonder how many didn't make it!

--

Jeff