On 26/12/14 08:25, Bob Hobden wrote:
"RG" wrote ...

I'm very sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings at this time of year,
but it seems that News Individual Net will no longer be available to
users outside Germany. This is very sad, as it is by far the best
Usenet server and I know that many here rely on it.

It seems to be due to new VAT regulations, but is quite contrary to
the EU principles of common trade access.


"Due to changes in European tax law coming into force on 01.01.2015,
we can only offer our service to users which have their tax domicile
in Germany."

https://news.individual.net/register/step1.php


This seems to be the problem.........

http://www.foreigninvestments.eu/en/...ronic-services



So if they continue to take money from outside Germany, where they are
based, they would need to pay VAT in the countries where their customers
are based. An accountants nightmare and very costly to administer.

Each country has a method for collecting all of the tax due and
redistributing it to the relevant other countries. In the UK it's called
VATMOSS. To use the system you are required to collect certain
information from the customer but the advice from HMRC is apparently not
written by someone with English as a mother tongue. I'm waiting for my
MP to pry clarification from HMRC. No hurry though, I don't need the
information for another six days.




--
Bernard Peek


In search of cognoscenti (again)

On 26/12/14 16:23, Nick Maclaren wrote:

But what the euroseptics won't tell you is that the change was
pushed through by - wait for it - our very own UK, certainly as
a principal and possibly as the prime mover.

Apparently the UK argued for a minimum threshold below which businesses
did not need to register. The argument was not accepted.

The conspiracy theory is that the UK wanted their argument to fail so
that they would have another stick to beat the EU with.


--
Bernard Peek


In search of cognoscenti (again)

On 26/12/14 17:00, Emery Davis wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:50:20 +0000, RG wrote:


Incidentally I noticed when logging in just now that although I renewed
yesterday for a year until April 2016, it is now offering me another
year until April 2017 if I pay a further 10 euros. I may do just that!

I haven't received any notification from them. It seems odd that they
would be prepared to cancel existing customers... surely the legislation
carries some sort of grandfather clause, otherwise many businesses (not
just NIN) would have to cancel existing contracts?

It affects all transactions for the automated supply of electtronic
services from January 1 2015 and all other transactions from January 1
2016. The law was apparently passed in 2008 but nobody noticed until
about a month ago.

On twitter look for #VATMESS


--
Bernard Peek


In search of cognoscenti (again)

On 26/12/2014 17:00, Emery Davis wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:50:20 +0000, RG wrote:


Incidentally I noticed when logging in just now that although I renewed
yesterday for a year until April 2016, it is now offering me another
year until April 2017 if I pay a further 10 euros. I may do just that!

I haven't received any notification from them. It seems odd that they
would be prepared to cancel existing customers... surely the legislation
carries some sort of grandfather clause, otherwise many businesses (not
just NIN) would have to cancel existing contracts?

-E



They are not cancelling contracts. It's just you will/may not be able to
sign up for a new 12 month contract after 1st Jan 2014.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 2014-12-26 16:50:20 +0000, RG said:

On 26/12/2014 16:31, Sacha wrote:
On 2014-12-25 16:44:07 +0000, RG said:

I'm very sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings at this time of year,
but it seems that News Individual Net will no longer be available to
users outside Germany. This is very sad, as it is by far the best
Usenet server and I know that many here rely on it.

It seems to be due to new VAT regulations, but is quite contrary to
the EU principles of common trade access.


"Due to changes in European tax law coming into force on 01.01.2015,
we can only offer our service to users which have their tax domicile
in Germany."

https://news.individual.net/register/step1.php

Entering that site via my log in, I get a different message
https://news.individual.net/register.php and no indication of the
service being withdrawn. Here it is:

Registration
Signing up at News.Individual.NET
Access to Usenet with News.Individual.NET requires a paid account. If
you already have an account for News.Individual.NET, please go straight
to "My Account", log in, and reactivate your account by paying 10 EUR
for one year of usage. If you don't have an account, you can create one
by completing our registration process below.
If you want to check the quality of our service without obligation
before deciding if you want to pay for it, you can choose during
registration that you would like a free two-week trial account.
During the registration process, the content of the contract will be
explained to you step by step, and you can enter your personal data
required for registration. If you have any questions, please check our
FAQ, and don't hesitate to contact us by e-mail at .
For your records, here are the essential parts of the contract bundled
in one file.

Technical note: For registration, you need to have cookies enabled in
your web browser. If you encounter problems with the registration
process, please contact us at:


Hi Sacha!
Yes I get that message by logging in. But then clicking on the 'Go sign
up' button gives me the fuller page with the:
"Due to changes in European tax law coming into force on 01.01.2015, we
can only offer our service to users which have their tax domicile in
Germany" message.

There doesn't seem to have been any warning sent to 'foreign' users
about the service terminating, but I suppose that's not surprising
since the facility is provided by a university at a nominal charge and
they don't have records of where all the users live.

Incidentally I noticed when logging in just now that although I renewed
yesterday for a year until April 2016, it is now offering me another
year until April 2017 if I pay a further 10 euros. I may do just that!

I emailed them today asking about this situation and got this reply:

"at news.individual.net, we don't collect information on a user's
residential address, tax domicile, social security number and so on. We
need an email address to get in touch and e.g. send a password to, and
we like to have a name so we know how to address or refer to people. And
we'd like to keep it that way.

The new European VAT regulations mean a lot more bureaucracy for
providers of digital services. We hope for a workable solution in the
medium term, and until then, try to keep providing our service as it
stands, as far as possible. If we should be forced to make more tangible
changes in the future, we would notify all affected users individually
via email."
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2014-12-26 17:16:52 +0000, Christina Websell said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2014-12-25 16:44:07 +0000, RG said:

I'm very sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings at this time of year,
but it seems that News Individual Net will no longer be available to
users outside Germany. This is very sad, as it is by far the best
Usenet server and I know that many here rely on it.

It seems to be due to new VAT regulations, but is quite contrary to the
EU principles of common trade access.


"Due to changes in European tax law coming into force on 01.01.2015, we
can only offer our service to users which have their tax domicile in
Germany."

https://news.individual.net/register/step1.php

Entering that site via my log in, I get a different message
https://news.individual.net/register.php and no indication of the
service being withdrawn. Here it is:

Registration
Signing up at News.Individual.NET
Access to Usenet with News.Individual.NET requires a paid account. If
you already have an account for News.Individual.NET, please go straight
to "My Account", log in, and reactivate your account by paying 10 EUR
for one year of usage. If you don't have an account, you can create one
by completing our registration process below.
If you want to check the quality of our service without obligation
before deciding if you want to pay for it, you can choose during
registration that you would like a free two-week trial account.
During the registration process, the content of the contract will be
explained to you step by step, and you can enter your personal data
required for registration. If you have any questions, please check our
FAQ, and don't hesitate to contact us by e-mail at .
For your records, here are the essential parts of the contract bundled
in one file.

Technical note: For registration, you need to have cookies enabled in
your web browser. If you encounter problems with the registration
process, please contact us at:

--

It may well be true, but I've used NIN for years and they haven't told
me that I won't be able to use them again yet. I have a friend in
Germany and can soon find out if the change in tax laws will affect my
use of NIN. I suspect not. Unless NIN contact me to say so. They
haven't.

Their reply to my email to them states that they hope to contact all
those affected.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 26/12/2014 23:01, Sacha wrote:


Their reply to my email to them states that they hope to contact all
those affected.

But if they don't do so soon, it will be too late for anyone to do
anything about it.

I'm just glad to have spotted this in another place, so that I could put
a heads-up here.

I've added another year to our own subscription. Hopefully by 2017 they
will have sorted out the mess...

--
RG

On 26/12/2014 22:51, Ophelia wrote:

Whoa I just went back in and I am now on until 24 June 2017

Hmm I wonder how many times I can do this?? )

Well done Ophelia. It's a sound investment.

--
RG

On 26/12/2014 23:01, Sacha wrote:


Their reply to my email to them states that they hope to contact all
those affected.


As it will be law on 1st Jan 2015 the email they send may just say
'sorry, but due to EU legislation and the prohibitive costs of
administration we can now only accept future payment for services from
those residing in Germany.'

Some other Usenet suppliers operating within the EU may also restrict
usage in the same way.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"RG" wrote in message
...
On 26/12/2014 22:51, Ophelia wrote:

Whoa I just went back in and I am now on until 24 June 2017

Hmm I wonder how many times I can do this?? )

Well done Ophelia. It's a sound investment.

Did you read the response Sacha received? I think they may not be booting
anyone off!!!

Hmm ...


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 00:19:00 -0000, Ophelia wrote:

Did you read the response Sacha received? I think they may not be
booting anyone off!!!

Everyone has access until their current subscription expires, that is
what they have paid for and will get. But come your renewal they
won't take your money if you are a non-German EU customer.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"alan_m" wrote

Sacha wrote:


Their reply to my email to them states that they hope to contact all
those affected.


As it will be law on 1st Jan 2015 the email they send may just say 'sorry,
but due to EU legislation and the prohibitive costs of administration we
can now only accept future payment for services from those residing in
Germany.'

Some other Usenet suppliers operating within the EU may also restrict usage
in the same way.


Just try Teranews then, it's a one off small payment and they are based in
the US so no problem with VAT domicile.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article ,
Bernard Peek wrote:

But what the euroseptics won't tell you is that the change was
pushed through by - wait for it - our very own UK, certainly as
a principal and possibly as the prime mover.

Apparently the UK argued for a minimum threshold below which businesses
did not need to register. The argument was not accepted.

The conspiracy theory is that the UK wanted their argument to fail so
that they would have another stick to beat the EU with.

You shouldn't trust Whitehall/Murdoch/Wail/Torygraph propaganda.

I was referring to the original proposal, which I knew of a long
time back, because Whitehall and Westminster were not happy that
UK residents were paying VAT to other countries for such things,
because the UK-favoured multinationals - surprise, surprise - use
the countries with the lowest VAT rate. And, yes, it was WE are
going to push for this - and WE did.

Also, I believe that there IS a minimum threshold. Whether that
compliant is genuine, I can't say - but, given it's timing, I
have my doubts. What the UK's representatives negotiate for
(or even insist on) and what is said to the UK public are often
not closely related.

Very probably, the original intent was to target only companies
like Amazon, and the UK's representatives misjudged, so the
threshold is far lower than was originally assumed. That is most
likely the nugget of truth around which the story you heard was
built.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 00:19:00 -0000, Ophelia wrote:

Did you read the response Sacha received? I think they may not be
booting anyone off!!!

Everyone has access until their current subscription expires, that is
what they have paid for and will get. But come your renewal they
won't take your money if you are a non-German EU customer.

--
Cheers
Dave.




--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 00:19:00 -0000, Ophelia wrote:

Did you read the response Sacha received? I think they may not be
booting anyone off!!!

Everyone has access until their current subscription expires, that is
what they have paid for and will get. But come your renewal they
won't take your money if you are a non-German EU customer.

They already have. Read my previous posts. I have renewed twice in the
past couple of days and now am paid up to June 2017.

Go into your account and have a look. RG put me onto that!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/