About ten years ago when relaying a section of lawn I planted a whole
sack of yellow daffodils in the hope that they would naturalise. The
first couple of years they provided a glorious display but over the
years less and less have flowered.

Then this year a lot more flowered but they were white with small orange
centres. Is this normal? Is there anything that I can do (or shoud have
done) to maintain a full display of the big yellows daffs that I planted?

Andrew

On 09/05/2014 11:47, Andrew May wrote:

About ten years ago when relaying a section of lawn I planted a whole
sack of yellow daffodils in the hope that they would naturalise. The
first couple of years they provided a glorious display but over the
years less and less have flowered.

Probably because they have become too crowded. You end up with all leaf
and blind plants with no flower. They don't store enough in the bulb
from one summer to flower the next and the cycle repeats.

Then this year a lot more flowered but they were white with small orange
centres. Is this normal? Is there anything that I can do (or shoud have
done) to maintain a full display of the big yellows daffs that I planted?

Andrew

I have seen interlopers that have grown from seed do this but I think
most of the yellow ones come more or less true from seed. At least their
seedlings remain yellow but not quite such showy flowers.

My daffodils are older than yours and are still mostly in the same
places as they were planted with the odd seedling interloper. One lot
flower very early and the others mid to late season.

BTW Wild bluebell woods in North Yorks looking gorgeous this week.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 09/05/2014 12:04, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/05/2014 11:47, Andrew May wrote:

About ten years ago when relaying a section of lawn I planted a whole
sack of yellow daffodils in the hope that they would naturalise. The
first couple of years they provided a glorious display but over the
years less and less have flowered.

Probably because they have become too crowded. You end up with all leaf
and blind plants with no flower. They don't store enough in the bulb
from one summer to flower the next and the cycle repeats.

Then this year a lot more flowered but they were white with small orange
centres. Is this normal? Is there anything that I can do (or shoud have
done) to maintain a full display of the big yellows daffs that I planted?

Andrew

I have seen interlopers that have grown from seed do this but I think
most of the yellow ones come more or less true from seed. At least their
seedlings remain yellow but not quite such showy flowers.

My daffodils are older than yours and are still mostly in the same
places as they were planted with the odd seedling interloper. One lot
flower very early and the others mid to late season.

BTW Wild bluebell woods in North Yorks looking gorgeous this week.

Unlikely to be grown from seed. They are in exactly the same triangle
that I planted the others. Or are you suggesting that seeds from the
ones that I planted may come up white?

In article ,
says...

About ten years ago when relaying a section of lawn I planted a whole
sack of yellow daffodils in the hope that they would naturalise. The
first couple of years they provided a glorious display but over the
years less and less have flowered.

Assuming they still produce healthy leaves, non flowering could be
caused by overcrowding / starvation.. especially if you planted them too
shallow.Daffodils vary considerably in how how much hardship they will
tolerate.. some types are almosr indesctructible and others relatively
shortlived.

You could dig up the non-flowerers (now is fine, leave the leaves on)
gently tease the bulbs apart and replant them more spread out in a
different place. There should be 5" of soil above the top of the bulb
(don't worry about the leaves being deeper than before.). Scatter some
growmore on the soil surface. It may take them a couple of years to
build up enough strenth to start flowering again.

Then this year a lot more flowered but they were white with small orange
centres. Is this normal? Is there anything that I can do (or shoud have
done) to maintain a full display of the big yellows daffs that I planted?

Andrew

Daffodils don't "revert". The "new" flowers you describe sound like
one of the poeticus narcissi... one of the oldest and most persistent-
surviving varieties. Maybe those bulbs were smaller when planted and
have taken a while to reach flowering size. But they have never been,
ones that produced big yellow flowers.

Janet.

On 09/05/2014 12:16, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

About ten years ago when relaying a section of lawn I planted a whole
sack of yellow daffodils in the hope that they would naturalise. The
first couple of years they provided a glorious display but over the
years less and less have flowered.

Assuming they still produce healthy leaves, non flowering could be
caused by overcrowding / starvation.. especially if you planted them too
shallow.Daffodils vary considerably in how how much hardship they will
tolerate.. some types are almosr indesctructible and others relatively
shortlived.

I doubt that they were planted too shallow. I took the opportunity of
relaying the lawn to dig out a deep area, probably about a spade depth,
scattered the bulbs at the bottom and refilled before sowing grass on top.

I did wonder whether they might have been rotting because it can get
quite damp down there. But then suddenly all of these pop up.


You could dig up the non-flowerers (now is fine, leave the leaves on)
gently tease the bulbs apart and replant them more spread out in a
different place. There should be 5" of soil above the top of the bulb
(don't worry about the leaves being deeper than before.). Scatter some
growmore on the soil surface. It may take them a couple of years to
build up enough strenth to start flowering again.

I may well do that if I can dig deep enough without completely ruining
the lawn.

Daffodils don't "revert". The "new" flowers you describe sound like
one of the poeticus narcissi... one of the oldest and most persistent-
surviving varieties. Maybe those bulbs were smaller when planted and
have taken a while to reach flowering size. But they have never been,
ones that produced big yellow flowers.


I should have been a sack of just the yellow ones - but I wouldn't
guarantee it.

In article ,
Andrew May wrote:

Assuming they still produce healthy leaves, non flowering could be
caused by overcrowding / starvation.. especially if you planted them too
shallow.Daffodils vary considerably in how how much hardship they will
tolerate.. some types are almosr indesctructible and others relatively
shortlived.

I doubt that they were planted too shallow. I took the opportunity of
relaying the lawn to dig out a deep area, probably about a spade depth,
scattered the bulbs at the bottom and refilled before sowing grass on top.

I did wonder whether they might have been rotting because it can get
quite damp down there. But then suddenly all of these pop up.

Another cause can be cutting the tops off too early. I believe
that, surprisingly, fertilising them too much can also cause that
by enabling the grass to out-compete the daffodils.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 09/05/2014 12:26, Andrew May wrote:

I should have been a sack of just the yellow ones - but I wouldn't
guarantee it.

Was the sack sealed when you bought it, or was it open? If open and
bought from a garden centre, it's not unusual for people (particularly
of the young variety...), to pick up bulbs and put them back in the
wrong place!

--

Jeff

On 09/05/2014 13:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 09/05/2014 12:26, Andrew May wrote:

I should have been a sack of just the yellow ones - but I wouldn't
guarantee it.

Was the sack sealed when you bought it, or was it open? If open and
bought from a garden centre, it's not unusual for people (particularly
of the young variety...), to pick up bulbs and put them back in the
wrong place!

Nope. It was a complete and unopened sack of traditional yellow daffodil
bulbs from a reputable garden centre.

You could dig up the non-flowerers (now is fine, leave the leaves on)
gently tease the bulbs apart and replant them more spread out in a
different place. There should be 5" of soil above the top of the bulb
(don't worry about the leaves being deeper than before.). Scatter some
growmore on the soil surface. It may take them a couple of years to
build up enough strenth to start flowering again.


If you lift the daffs now and replant then they won't make any new roots
this season so putting growmore on the soil will do nothing for them.
I'd rather give them a watering with Tomato feed and leave the lifting
till the leaves have yellowed, that way they will have at least had some
sort of chance to put some feed into the bulbs.

If you really want yellow daffs then then lift the existing ones and
replant them elsewhere and plant new yellow ones in the late summer, the
earlier you can plant the better.

On 09/05/2014 13:45, Andrew May wrote:
On 09/05/2014 13:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 09/05/2014 12:26, Andrew May wrote:

I should have been a sack of just the yellow ones - but I wouldn't
guarantee it.

Was the sack sealed when you bought it, or was it open? If open and
bought from a garden centre, it's not unusual for people (particularly
of the young variety...), to pick up bulbs and put them back in the
wrong place!

Nope. It was a complete and unopened sack of traditional yellow daffodil
bulbs from a reputable garden centre.

If you buy enough then you invariably get the odd volunteer. My last big
batch of red tulips had a couple of black Queen of the Night in.

(and they certainly didn't come from reversion)

I suspect what has happened is that the yellow ones are now too crowded
to flower and the more nearly species ones that have always been there
have taken over since they tolerate the conditions better.

In 10 years you will certainly have some seedlings grown up to flowering
size unless you religiously dead head them all. I think the yellow ones
all come pretty much to type though but smaller flowers.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
says...

On 09/05/2014 13:45, Andrew May wrote:
On 09/05/2014 13:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 09/05/2014 12:26, Andrew May wrote:

I should have been a sack of just the yellow ones - but I wouldn't
guarantee it.

Was the sack sealed when you bought it, or was it open? If open and
bought from a garden centre, it's not unusual for people (particularly
of the young variety...), to pick up bulbs and put them back in the
wrong place!

Nope. It was a complete and unopened sack of traditional yellow daffodil
bulbs from a reputable garden centre.

If you buy enough then you invariably get the odd volunteer.

I once bought a 56lb sack of a named variety (from Nyssens) and planted
them out in grass. Only when they flowered did it dawn they were not the
ones I'd ordered. Obviously a labelling error. Nyssens apologised,
refunded the cost and the following autumn they sent me a sack of the
right sort I'd wanted. Now that's what I call keeping the customer
happy...

Janet.

On Fri, 09 May 2014 12:26:15 +0100, Andrew May wrote:

I did wonder whether they might have been rotting because it can get
quite damp down there. But then suddenly all of these pop up.

I have a couple of bunches that were basically under water all this
winter. Although they have bloomed well (and I do give them a bit of
fertilizer) for many years, they were blind this year. I assumed it was
the wet.



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 09/05/2014 13:56, David Hill wrote:

You could dig up the non-flowerers (now is fine, leave the leaves on)
gently tease the bulbs apart and replant them more spread out in a
different place. There should be 5" of soil above the top of the bulb
(don't worry about the leaves being deeper than before.). Scatter some
growmore on the soil surface. It may take them a couple of years to
build up enough strenth to start flowering again.


If you lift the daffs now and replant then they won't make any new roots
this season so putting growmore on the soil will do nothing for them.
I'd rather give them a watering with Tomato feed and leave the lifting
till the leaves have yellowed, that way they will have at least had some
sort of chance to put some feed into the bulbs.

If you really want yellow daffs then then lift the existing ones and
replant them elsewhere and plant new yellow ones in the late summer, the
earlier you can plant the better.

That sounds like a plan. Thanks.

On 09/05/2014 11:47, Andrew May wrote:
About ten years ago when relaying a section of lawn I planted a whole
sack of yellow daffodils in the hope that they would naturalise. The
first couple of years they provided a glorious display but over the
years less and less have flowered.

Then this year a lot more flowered but they were white with small orange
centres. Is this normal? Is there anything that I can do (or shoud have
done) to maintain a full display of the big yellows daffs that I planted?

Andrew

Just as a follow-up to this. I had the opportunity last weekend to talk
to someone from the Cambridge University Botanical Gardens at their
Festival of Plants.

Their theory is that the original yellow daffodils were hybrids and have
seeded but also died back - possibly due to the wet conditions. The
seeds have grown as white daffodils, that being the dominant strain,
they have come up blind for several years and have now matured enough to
produce flowers. Certainly seems to fit the facts.

Andrew