My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

"stuart noble" wrote in message news
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome
================================================

""With a toddler charging about"" does it matter? A toddler will be growing
up and charging about even more!!


Mike


---------------------------------------------------------------
www.friendsofshanklintheatre.co.uk
www.hmscollingwoodassociation.com
www.rneba.org.uk
www.nsrafa.org

"stuart noble" wrote in message
news
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft x
20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of trying
a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the existing
grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand types
etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in SE
England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an option
for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

We have done leveling with soil many times to get ours a bit easier to mow,
we use a long plank, work around the area and keep firming the filled area,
done in winter it was mowable by April, we used seed but the underlying
grasses grew up through and speeded things up


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 16/01/2014 09:00, Charlie Pridham wrote:

"stuart noble" wrote in message
news
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60
ft x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought
of trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping
the existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful
in SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't
an option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

We have done leveling with soil many times to get ours a bit easier to
mow, we use a long plank, work around the area and keep firming the
filled area, done in winter it was mowable by April, we used seed but
the underlying grasses grew up through and speeded things up



Many thanks! Really glad to hear it was that far advanced by April. A
nice mindless job for the winter :-)

On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:

My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

If you top dress the low spots about an inch at a time over three years
you won't need much if any seed. You will likely need a lot of sharp
sand and topsoil though 25kg goes nowhere. If it is deeper as I had with
a big tree root extracted and you use new grass seed expect to see a
different coloured patch of grass there almost forever!

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

If you don't add too much at once grass it pretty good at growing
through and re-establishing itself. You might want to attack the low
spot with a hollow tined fork to improve drainage first. Get a really
tough one as the ones in sheds are pretty useless and break easily.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 16/01/2014 10:44, Martin Brown wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:

My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

If you top dress the low spots about an inch at a time over three years
you won't need much if any seed. You will likely need a lot of sharp
sand and topsoil though 25kg goes nowhere. If it is deeper as I had with
a big tree root extracted and you use new grass seed expect to see a
different coloured patch of grass there almost forever!

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

If you don't add too much at once grass it pretty good at growing
through and re-establishing itself. You might want to attack the low
spot with a hollow tined fork to improve drainage first. Get a really
tough one as the ones in sheds are pretty useless and break easily.


Three years is an eternity to young families these days. Once the lawn
receives the focus (first fine day of the year) it has to be "fixed",
preferably by lunchtime :-)
Slightly concerned that seed might be a waste of time if the weather
takes a turn for the worse. Charlie might get away with it, but I
probably won't. Maybe "burying" turf would be an option? I don't think
the dip is much more than a sod thickness, so I could fine level with
soil on top of the turf. Just thinking out loud here....

On 16/01/2014 11:17, stuart noble wrote:
On 16/01/2014 10:44, Martin Brown wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:

My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

If you top dress the low spots about an inch at a time over three years
you won't need much if any seed. You will likely need a lot of sharp
sand and topsoil though 25kg goes nowhere. If it is deeper as I had with
a big tree root extracted and you use new grass seed expect to see a
different coloured patch of grass there almost forever!

Three years is an eternity to young families these days. Once the lawn
receives the focus (first fine day of the year) it has to be "fixed",
preferably by lunchtime :-)

I would still urge patience. In my first garden I followed the approved
method for removing a hump - basically turf cutting an H shape folding
it back remove unwanted volume and replace. It sounds easy enough but
believe me it isn't. My wife still laughs at the sight of me jumping up
and down on it in sheer frustration when it would not fit back together.

I blamed Gardeners World for the suggested methodology - it looked easy
enough on the box but was very much harder to do in real life.

Slightly concerned that seed might be a waste of time if the weather
takes a turn for the worse. Charlie might get away with it, but I
probably won't. Maybe "burying" turf would be an option? I don't think
the dip is much more than a sod thickness, so I could fine level with
soil on top of the turf. Just thinking out loud here....

Seriously I would do it an inch or so at a time over two or three years
- any other way and you will have a big chunk of no go area during the
growing season since newly sprouted grass seed will not tolerate being
walked on at all first season. Better to top dress the area in winter
and let the grass grow through in spring and repeat until it is right.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 16/01/2014 12:22, Martin Brown wrote:
On 16/01/2014 11:17, stuart noble wrote:
On 16/01/2014 10:44, Martin Brown wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:

My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

If you top dress the low spots about an inch at a time over three years
you won't need much if any seed. You will likely need a lot of sharp
sand and topsoil though 25kg goes nowhere. If it is deeper as I had with
a big tree root extracted and you use new grass seed expect to see a
different coloured patch of grass there almost forever!

Three years is an eternity to young families these days. Once the lawn
receives the focus (first fine day of the year) it has to be "fixed",
preferably by lunchtime :-)

I would still urge patience. In my first garden I followed the approved
method for removing a hump - basically turf cutting an H shape folding
it back remove unwanted volume and replace. It sounds easy enough but
believe me it isn't. My wife still laughs at the sight of me jumping up
and down on it in sheer frustration when it would not fit back together.

I blamed Gardeners World for the suggested methodology - it looked easy
enough on the box but was very much harder to do in real life.

Slightly concerned that seed might be a waste of time if the weather
takes a turn for the worse. Charlie might get away with it, but I
probably won't. Maybe "burying" turf would be an option? I don't think
the dip is much more than a sod thickness, so I could fine level with
soil on top of the turf. Just thinking out loud here....

Seriously I would do it an inch or so at a time over two or three years
- any other way and you will have a big chunk of no go area during the
growing season since newly sprouted grass seed will not tolerate being
walked on at all first season. Better to top dress the area in winter
and let the grass grow through in spring and repeat until it is right.


Thanks. One of the benefits of bad weather would be that I may not be
able to do anything at all :-)

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2014 10:44, Martin Brown wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:

My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

If you top dress the low spots about an inch at a time over three years
you won't need much if any seed. You will likely need a lot of sharp
sand and topsoil though 25kg goes nowhere. If it is deeper as I had with
a big tree root extracted and you use new grass seed expect to see a
different coloured patch of grass there almost forever!

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

If you don't add too much at once grass it pretty good at growing
through and re-establishing itself. You might want to attack the low
spot with a hollow tined fork to improve drainage first. Get a really
tough one as the ones in sheds are pretty useless and break easily.


Three years is an eternity to young families these days. Once the lawn
receives the focus (first fine day of the year) it has to be "fixed",
preferably by lunchtime :-)
Slightly concerned that seed might be a waste of time if the weather takes
a turn for the worse. Charlie might get away with it, but I probably
won't. Maybe "burying" turf would be an option? I don't think the dip is
much more than a sod thickness, so I could fine level with soil on top of
the turf. Just thinking out loud here....

Martins right doing it in layers works really well, but you can short cut by
using turf and soil but the weather at the moment isn't great for projects
of any kind. this link shows what we achieved in 6 weeks over a winter
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk/pond/pond.htm
But its worth pointing out my children are of an age that nothing would
induce them out into the garden!

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

What you don't tell us is the diameter of the dip

On 16/01/2014 18:16, David Hill wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

What you don't tell us is the diameter of the dip

I won't really know the details till I get a straightedge on it.
Needless to say, it's not a uniform dip, but I reckon probably half the
area is too low by anything from 1" to 3"

Martins right doing it in layers works really well, but you can short
cut by using turf and soil but the weather at the moment isn't great for
projects of any kind. this link shows what we achieved in 6 weeks over a
winter
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk/pond/pond.htm
But its worth pointing out my children are of an age that nothing would
induce them out into the garden!


Very impressive!

On 16/01/2014 19:03, stuart noble wrote:
On 16/01/2014 18:16, David Hill wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

What you don't tell us is the diameter of the dip

I won't really know the details till I get a straightedge on it.
Needless to say, it's not a uniform dip, but I reckon probably half the
area is too low by anything from 1" to 3"

I'd be inclined to remove the turf from the deepest part and add soil
then replace the turf, then later level with a top dressing of soil and
sand to get the final level.
alternative you could always lower the outside of the lawn

On 16/01/2014 20:28, David Hill wrote:
On 16/01/2014 19:03, stuart noble wrote:
On 16/01/2014 18:16, David Hill wrote:
On 15/01/2014 20:16, stuart noble wrote:
My son's lawn has a dip in the middle. The whole area is probably 60 ft
x 20 ft and the centre is about 3" lower than the edges. I thought of
trying a quick fix by leveling with topsoil/sand/seed and hoping the
existing grass will grow through it. Is that a realistic expectation?

I read a long discussion about it on Gardenweb, so I know about sand
types etc, but what works in the southern USA might not be
successful in
SE England. With a toddler charging about, doing a proper job isn't an
option for the foreseeable future .

Any advice welcome

What you don't tell us is the diameter of the dip

I won't really know the details till I get a straightedge on it.
Needless to say, it's not a uniform dip, but I reckon probably half the
area is too low by anything from 1" to 3"

I'd be inclined to remove the turf from the deepest part and add soil
then replace the turf, then later level with a top dressing of soil and
sand to get the final level.
alternative you could always lower the outside of the lawn

Good idea. Thanks.

On 17/01/2014 09:11, stuart noble wrote:
On 16/01/2014 20:28, David Hill wrote:
On 16/01/2014 19:03, stuart noble wrote:
On 16/01/2014 18:16, David Hill wrote:

What you don't tell us is the diameter of the dip

I won't really know the details till I get a straightedge on it.
Needless to say, it's not a uniform dip, but I reckon probably half the
area is too low by anything from 1" to 3"

I'd be inclined to remove the turf from the deepest part and add soil
then replace the turf, then later level with a top dressing of soil and
sand to get the final level.
alternative you could always lower the outside of the lawn

Good idea. Thanks.

Just be aware that like my attempt on my first lawn to remove a smallish
hump cutting and moving turf to change the soil level and relaying is
backbreaking work and incredibly time consuming.

I'd favour as someone else suggested laying bought turf over the
existing low spots and let the edges into the existing lawn. But be
aware it will always show up as different colour/texture grass.

These instant gratification garden makeover programmes have a lot to
answer for. I reckon they should be forced to go back and show how many
of the buy & die expensive mature plants they burnt money on are still
alive in the tender care of the home owners after two or three years.

The gradual way I suggested is orders of magnitude less work!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown