In article ,
says...

On 2013-12-03 22:11:13 +0000, kay said:

Janet;996053 Wrote:


JUST LIKE NOW, and still available nationwide.

Janet.

Yes, Janet's right. Post GCSE, kids now have the choice between staying
on into 6th form and doing A levels, or moving to a further education
college, where they can still do A-levels but also a whole host of other
qualifications, HNDs, BTecs, NVQs, and some will even do Foundation
degrees. Very much the situation when I was growing up (except that the
range of qualifications has expanded).

I know that these possibilities exist. It's the quantity of colleges
that needs improving.

Nonsense. There is no shortage; it's nationwide provision.

Janet

On 2013-12-04 16:14:38 +0000, Janet said:

In article ,
says...

On 2013-12-03 22:11:13 +0000, kay said:

Janet;996053 Wrote:


JUST LIKE NOW, and still available nationwide.

Janet.

Yes, Janet's right. Post GCSE, kids now have the choice between staying
on into 6th form and doing A levels, or moving to a further education
college, where they can still do A-levels but also a whole host of other
qualifications, HNDs, BTecs, NVQs, and some will even do Foundation
degrees. Very much the situation when I was growing up (except that the
range of qualifications has expanded).

I know that these possibilities exist. It's the quantity of colleges
that needs improving.

Nonsense. There is no shortage; it's nationwide provision.

Janet

Janet, I'm not going to argue with you about this because that is what
you want. There are NOT enough of these facilities countrywide, which
is why the PM is calling for more. I'm really sickened by your
determination to spoil every discussion that comes up if you can do so.
You have a particular talent for it where your perceived 'enemies' are
concerned and you do drone on...
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
says...

On 2013-12-04 16:14:38 +0000, Janet said:

In article ,
says...

On 2013-12-03 22:11:13 +0000, kay said:

Janet;996053 Wrote:


JUST LIKE NOW, and still available nationwide.

Janet.

Yes, Janet's right. Post GCSE, kids now have the choice between staying
on into 6th form and doing A levels, or moving to a further education
college, where they can still do A-levels but also a whole host of other
qualifications, HNDs, BTecs, NVQs, and some will even do Foundation
degrees. Very much the situation when I was growing up (except that the
range of qualifications has expanded).

I know that these possibilities exist. It's the quantity of colleges
that needs improving.

Nonsense. There is no shortage; it's nationwide provision.

Janet

Janet, I'm not going to argue with you about this because that is what
you want.

Kindly don't ascribe your delusions to me. I am merely correcting false
information.

snip the usual adhominem whenever you're challenged by the facts.

There are NOT enough of these facilities countrywide, which
is why the PM is calling for more.

Again you reveal your complete ignorance of the field.

What he called for, is more apprenticeships. That means, more
businesses and employers being willing to taking on
apprentices/trainees.

It is already normal practice for apprentices to spend part of their
time working for their employer and the rest at FE college where they
acquire the formal training and certifications. There's no shortage of
FE colleges and courses for apprentices to attend on day or block
release (this has been going on for decades).

The reason there is a shortage of apprenticeships is that Britains
manufacturing businesses and skilled trades have shrunk and much of the
work is done abroad; and businesses that survive are often pared to the
bone with no spare staff to train youngsters from scratch.

Janet

What he called for, is more apprenticeships. That means, more
businesses and employers being willing to taking on
apprentices/trainees.

It is already normal practice for apprentices to spend part of their
time working for their employer and the rest at FE college where they
acquire the formal training and certifications. There's no shortage of
FE colleges and courses for apprentices to attend on day or block
release (this has been going on for decades).

The reason there is a shortage of apprenticeships is that Britains
manufacturing businesses and skilled trades have shrunk and much of the
work is done abroad; and businesses that survive are often pared to the
bone with no spare staff to train youngsters from scratch.

Janet

As you say day release has been going on for many years, but that has
not been part of an apprenticeship.
Whilst a lot of this sort of training course as well as apprenticeships
are on offer with FE Colleges, very few offer a structured training in
Horticulture with a qualified instructor.
City and Guilds offer some training but the quality of knowledge of the
instructors is questionable when the C&G website says ............

"To offer this qualification please submit an application and we’ll help
you get set up - you can become a City & Guilds qualification provider
within 30 days."

The whole point of this thread was

"The lack of training for careers in Horticulture."

Almost all Agricultural and Horticultural colleges have closed, or have
greatly reduced their courses.
Whilst Local authority Parks which used to have apprentices now employ
contractors who on the whole don't have any apprenticeships.

In article , david@abacus-
nurseries.co.uk says...

What he called for, is more apprenticeships. That means, more
businesses and employers being willing to taking on
apprentices/trainees.

It is already normal practice for apprentices to spend part of their
time working for their employer and the rest at FE college where they
acquire the formal training and certifications. There's no shortage of
FE colleges and courses for apprentices to attend on day or block
release (this has been going on for decades).

The reason there is a shortage of apprenticeships is that Britains
manufacturing businesses and skilled trades have shrunk and much of the
work is done abroad; and businesses that survive are often pared to the
bone with no spare staff to train youngsters from scratch.

Janet

As you say day release has been going on for many years, but that has
not been part of an apprenticeship.

You're out of date. Many apprentices now do day and block release to
college and have done for years, ever since many trades became regulated
and required nationally recognised accreditations.


http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/pa...ticeships.aspx
http://www.myworldofwork.co.uk/what-...apprenticeship


The whole point of this thread was

"The lack of training for careers in Horticulture."

not the entire point, David. It expanded to other trades, and


" I wish we had the
old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a
degree."

which is what I responded to.

Janet.

DfE figures show that almost a third of 16-18 year olds are in FE colleges - more than are in maintained schools. And the figures for 18 year olds are 18% in FE colleges, 3.4% in maintained schools.

That doesn't look like an under-provision of FE colleges

House of Commons - Participation by 16-19 year olds in education and training - Education

On 2013-12-04 21:38:32 +0000, kay said:

'Sacha[_11_ Wrote:
;996062']

I know that these possibilities exist. It's the quantity of colleges
that needs improving.
-

DfE figures show that almost a third of 16-18 year olds are in FE
colleges - more than are in maintained schools. And the figures for 18
year olds are 18% in FE colleges, 3.4% in maintained schools.

That doesn't look like an under-provision of FE colleges

'House of Commons - Participation by 16-19 year olds in education and
training - Education' (http://tinyurl.com/b429jpd)

How many offer horticultural training, I wonder - which was the start
of this thread with regard to the RHS link. If Alan Titchmarsh thinks
we need to encourage more young people to regard horticulture as a
career and the PM thinks we need more collegess, perhaps they know
something we don't! We quite often have young people working here,
sometimes just for a year or two, while doing an RHS diploma but most
of our staff won't see 30 again or north of that!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

No idea - but I know our local one does.

I thought he thought we needed more apprenticeships rather than more colleges? And I'd be surprised if he thought we needed horticultural apprentices - Alan Titchmarsh took him to task for likening the skill level of horticulture to that of litter collection.

On 2013-12-05 22:48:38 +0000, kay said:

'Sacha[_11_ Wrote:
;996097']

How many offer horticultural training, I wonder

No idea - but I know our local one does.

the PM thinks we need more collegess,

I thought he thought we needed more apprenticeships rather than more
colleges? And I'd be surprised if he thought we needed horticultural
apprentices - Alan Titchmarsh took him to task for likening the skill
level of horticulture to that of litter collection.

He wants more colleges. Those in horticulture want more respect for the
profession and for it to be shown as a career in itself, not "you're no
good for anything else". One of the people working for us has a maths
degree but prefers this work. Two others went to public school and were
told by their parents that they were 'throwing their education away'
because they wanted to work in horticulture instead of going into the
Navy or into banking. People who have gone to horticultural college
could (and ime, should) then go on to work with someone with experience
so that they learn both the growing and the financial aspects of the
job. I suppose it's a bit like a medical student qualifying as a
doctor but not going straight on to operate on someone's kidneys! The
potential outcome is a bit less severe. ;-) But to be honest, I think
learning this particular business by doing is an excellent way of going
about it, so in this area, yes, I'd be pro-apprenticeships.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk