"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 16/11/2013 17:47, Ophelia wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to some.
Best
O
I've not plodded through it, but AIUI what you've posted is someone's
view or interpretation of the proposed regulations. When it was
discussed here before, it was pointed out (by Janet, I think), that
there were exemptions for small, specialist seed-merchants and those
who deal with heritage varieties. The actual paragraphs in the
proposed regulations that were quoted here at the time seemed to bear
that out.

I didn't say I had any view. If you read what I said you will have seen
I said I had taken it from a political group.


I wonder who took it from whom?
The Real Seed Catalogue has what I think is the original esp as Ben Gabel
runs The Real Seed Catalogue and is the press contact for the campaign
against the proposed new law.

I wonder if he is a member of that group. Can't say I've ever seen him
actually posting. I assumed it had come from someone with links to
gardening/farming though.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:39:54 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:



"Fuschia" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to some.
Best
O
------------------------------------------------------------

If this was as serious as the quoted opinion makes out, where are the
strident complaints from the seed merchants - the Thompson & Morgans
of the UK and across Europe?
It would cost them a fortune to register every one of their varieties.
If they are not worried, should we be?

Good point. You would expect to hear something from them if it were the
case. Have they not been heard to make any comment at all?

I've heard nothing at all and that makes me suspicious.

I wonder if this is just another of those imaginary EU 'straight
banana' stories?

On 16/11/2013 21:40, Ophelia wrote:


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 16/11/2013 17:47, Ophelia wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to
some.
Best
O
I've not plodded through it, but AIUI what you've posted is someone's
view or interpretation of the proposed regulations. When it was
discussed here before, it was pointed out (by Janet, I think), that
there were exemptions for small, specialist seed-merchants and those
who deal with heritage varieties. The actual paragraphs in the
proposed regulations that were quoted here at the time seemed to bear
that out.

I didn't say I had any view. If you read what I said you will have seen
I said I had taken it from a political group.


I wonder who took it from whom?
The Real Seed Catalogue has what I think is the original esp as Ben Gabel
runs The Real Seed Catalogue and is the press contact for the campaign
against the proposed new law.

I wonder if he is a member of that group. Can't say I've ever seen him
actually posting. I assumed it had come from someone with links to
gardening/farming though.

could be from anyone who has bought from The Real Seed Company

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 16/11/2013 21:40, Ophelia wrote:


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 16/11/2013 17:47, Ophelia wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to
some.
Best
O
I've not plodded through it, but AIUI what you've posted is someone's
view or interpretation of the proposed regulations. When it was
discussed here before, it was pointed out (by Janet, I think), that
there were exemptions for small, specialist seed-merchants and those
who deal with heritage varieties. The actual paragraphs in the
proposed regulations that were quoted here at the time seemed to bear
that out.

I didn't say I had any view. If you read what I said you will have
seen
I said I had taken it from a political group.


I wonder who took it from whom?
The Real Seed Catalogue has what I think is the original esp as Ben
Gabel
runs The Real Seed Catalogue and is the press contact for the campaign
against the proposed new law.

I wonder if he is a member of that group. Can't say I've ever seen him
actually posting. I assumed it had come from someone with links to
gardening/farming though.

could be from anyone who has bought from The Real Seed Company

True enough.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Fuschia" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:39:54 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:



"Fuschia" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to some.
Best
O
------------------------------------------------------------

If this was as serious as the quoted opinion makes out, where are the
strident complaints from the seed merchants - the Thompson & Morgans
of the UK and across Europe?
It would cost them a fortune to register every one of their varieties.
If they are not worried, should we be?

Good point. You would expect to hear something from them if it were the
case. Have they not been heard to make any comment at all?

I've heard nothing at all and that makes me suspicious.

I wonder if this is just another of those imaginary EU 'straight
banana' stories?

Who knows I certainly don't)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:23:11 PM UTC, David in Normandy wrote:

Reading your post, it seems the new law is a very bad thing for

gardeners. Presumably the law is intended to be a benefit for somebody

but who supposed to benefit from this draconian legislation?



Large corporations.

The EU and all other large legislative bodies are in the pay of corporations (plutocracy) and eveything is done for their benefit. But it will always be advertised as being for our benefit, in this case, they'll probably say it is for health benefit and keeping us from accidently eating bad plants.

On 17/11/2013 09:44, Road_Hog wrote:
On Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:23:11 PM UTC, David in Normandy wrote:

Reading your post, it seems the new law is a very bad thing for

gardeners. Presumably the law is intended to be a benefit for somebody

but who supposed to benefit from this draconian legislation?



Large corporations.

The EU and all other large legislative bodies are in the pay of corporations (plutocracy) and eveything is done for their benefit. But it will always be advertised as being for our benefit, in this case, they'll probably say it is for health benefit and keeping us from accidently eating bad plants.


It does seem like one of those ridiculous laws that will benefit almost
nobody. Thinking about it, I can't even see the large corporations
gaining from this as it will mean they will have to abandon seeds /
plants with low sales volumes and restrict their sales to large volume
sales e.g. those to farmers. Can't see how anybody will benefit to be
honest, except the bureaucrats and labs that will do the testing. It
sounds like the sort of insane bureaucracy that only French politicians
could dream up - laws for the sake of laws to make more artificial jobs
for bureaucrats.

Well I will continue saving seeds from one year to the next and continue
to swap seeds and cuttings with friends and neighbours. I can see this
hurting small nurseries, garden centres and small seed and plant
producers but gardeners will continue sourcing seeds and plants from
each other as always. Though I guess organised seed swaps (at meet-ups
or online) may become illegal?

Gardeners will be hanging around street corners wearing dark glasses and
raincoats stopping passers-by "Psst! Do you want some illegal runner
bean seeds."

--
David in Normandy.

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
...
On 17/11/2013 09:44, Road_Hog wrote:
On Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:23:11 PM UTC, David in Normandy wrote:

Reading your post, it seems the new law is a very bad thing for

gardeners. Presumably the law is intended to be a benefit for somebody

but who supposed to benefit from this draconian legislation?



Large corporations.

The EU and all other large legislative bodies are in the pay of
corporations (plutocracy) and eveything is done for their benefit. But it
will always be advertised as being for our benefit, in this case, they'll
probably say it is for health benefit and keeping us from accidently
eating bad plants.


It does seem like one of those ridiculous laws that will benefit almost
nobody. Thinking about it, I can't even see the large corporations gaining
from this as it will mean they will have to abandon seeds / plants with
low sales volumes and restrict their sales to large volume sales e.g.
those to farmers. Can't see how anybody will benefit to be honest, except
the bureaucrats and labs that will do the testing. It sounds like the sort
of insane bureaucracy that only French politicians could dream up - laws
for the sake of laws to make more artificial jobs for bureaucrats.

Well I will continue saving seeds from one year to the next and continue
to swap seeds and cuttings with friends and neighbours. I can see this
hurting small nurseries, garden centres and small seed and plant producers
but gardeners will continue sourcing seeds and plants from each other as
always. Though I guess organised seed swaps (at meet-ups or online) may
become illegal?

Gardeners will be hanging around street corners wearing dark glasses and
raincoats stopping passers-by "Psst! Do you want some illegal runner bean
seeds."

lol ... what a prospect!!!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 17/11/2013 12:43, Martin wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:23:11 +0100, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 16/11/2013 15:10, Ophelia wrote:


All ABOUT THE New EU Seed Law


Reading your post, it seems the new law is a very bad thing for
gardeners. Presumably the law is intended to be a benefit for somebody
but who supposed to benefit from this draconian legislation?

People who buy seeds.


How? It is so draconian it throws the baby out with the bath water.

--
David in Normandy.

In article ,
Martin wrote:

Read the draft regulation and one can recognise it as another straight banana
myth.
It's not obvious to me why the UK press specialises in creating EU myths. It
doesn't happen elsewhere in the EU AFAIK

It is to me :-(

Yes, Minister etc. was the acceptable face of the mandarins. As a
group, their primary skill is ensuring that some innocent party gets
the blame for their malice, negligence, incompetence and even what
is arguably treason. Their SOP is to take a reasonable directive,
'gold plate' it for their own reasons and ensure that the EU gets
the blame for its extremism.

But what REALLY ****es off the Eurocrats is when the British
representatives demand that something is included or omitted,
despite the fact that everyone else disagrees, threatening a veto
if they don't get their way - and THEN say that they tried their
best to avoid that but the evil Eurocrats insisted.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 17/11/13 13:27, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Martin wrote:

Read the draft regulation and one can recognise it as another straight banana
myth.
It's not obvious to me why the UK press specialises in creating EU myths. It
doesn't happen elsewhere in the EU AFAIK

It is to me :-(

Yes, Minister etc. was the acceptable face of the mandarins. As a
group, their primary skill is ensuring that some innocent party gets
the blame for their malice, negligence, incompetence and even what
is arguably treason.

Government by civil servants has been replaced by government by
SpAds (special advisors). If you believe the rhetoric about
the efficiency of the free market etc, then the corollary is
that SpAds are very good at pushing their (financial)
backers' interests.

I find it difficult to distinguish SpAds from the
Tolkien character Wormtongue.

Choose your poison

Their SOP is to take a reasonable directive,
'gold plate' it for their own reasons and ensure that the EU gets
the blame for its extremism.

There's some truth in that, but it isn't universal. In
particular the CAA has been pleasantly effective at pushing back
against the new EASA regulations.

But what REALLY ****es off the Eurocrats is when the British
representatives demand that something is included or omitted,
despite the fact that everyone else disagrees, threatening a veto
if they don't get their way - and THEN say that they tried their
best to avoid that but the evil Eurocrats insisted.

On 2013-11-16 21:39:54 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Fuschia" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to some.
Best
O
------------------------------------------------------------

If this was as serious as the quoted opinion makes out, where are the
strident complaints from the seed merchants - the Thompson & Morgans
of the UK and across Europe?
It would cost them a fortune to register every one of their varieties.
If they are not worried, should we be?

Good point. You would expect to hear something from them if it were the
case. Have they not been heard to make any comment at all?

We get our seeds from Jelitto, which is a German company. I'll ask Ray
if he knows of any particular worries that they have. And email to
will either come to me or get forwarded
to me by someone.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-16 21:39:54 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Fuschia" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to some.
Best
O
------------------------------------------------------------

If this was as serious as the quoted opinion makes out, where are the
strident complaints from the seed merchants - the Thompson & Morgans
of the UK and across Europe?
It would cost them a fortune to register every one of their varieties.
If they are not worried, should we be?

Good point. You would expect to hear something from them if it were the
case. Have they not been heard to make any comment at all?

We get our seeds from Jelitto, which is a German company. I'll ask Ray if
he knows of any particular worries that they have. And email to
will either come to me or get forwarded to
me by someone.

Oh it's ok. I just wanted you to look over this stuff to see if it was
suitable for posting here All done now


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Martin wrote:

It's not obvious to me why the UK press specialises in creating EU myths.
It doesn't happen elsewhere in the EU AFAIK

Unfortunately - since I am a firm, even fanatical, believer in the EU -
anti-EU feeling is at least as strong in France (le Pen),
Italy (Beppe Grillo and now Berlusconi), Spain and many other EU members.
The EU has lost the trust of its citizens,
and a political organisation cannot continue in that state for long.

In my view radical reform is essential if the EU is to survive,
starting with election of the EU Commission,
and in particular its president.
The US would not have survived if its president had been chosen
in the way the EU president is.

The majority of senior bureaucrats in Brussels have lost faith
in the project, and are simply pushing paper until they retire.

Simply supporting the EU, without demanding its reform,
is in my view counter-productive.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On 17/11/2013 15:54, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-16 21:39:54 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Fuschia" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:10:26 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Apologies if you have already seen this.

This was posted in a political group. I hope it can be of use to some.
Best
O
------------------------------------------------------------

If this was as serious as the quoted opinion makes out, where are the
strident complaints from the seed merchants - the Thompson & Morgans
of the UK and across Europe?
It would cost them a fortune to register every one of their varieties.
If they are not worried, should we be?

Good point. You would expect to hear something from them if it were
the case. Have they not been heard to make any comment at all?

We get our seeds from Jelitto, which is a German company. I'll ask Ray
if he knows of any particular worries that they have. And email to
will either come to me or get forwarded to
me by someone.


I'd have thought that the RHS would have had something to say about it.