Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

In article ,
says...

Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?

Sounds much like what gardeners farmers cooks and folk cures have
used effectively for centuries

Janet

"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

I am trialing "Rootgrow" to soon to give you a yay or nay, but it is
expensive so the results will need to be noticeable


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:11:26 +0000, Charlie Pridham wrote:


I am trialing "Rootgrow" to soon to give you a yay or nay, but it is
expensive so the results will need to be noticeable

After several years of trials I use Rootgrow systematically now. I have
had very good results both in pots and in establishing plants in the
ground. Particularly in pots where I use an almost soil free substrate
(mostly pine bark and coco chips) plants with Rootgrow show really good
roots. By all appearances it works very well in the ground too.

However, Rootgrow has little to do with EM, which as I understand it is
largely bacterial. Rootgrow is mycorrhizal fungi which are symbiotic
with some plants. I believe the science, although relatively new, is
very well established.

I'll be interested to hear if your results with Rootgrow are the same as
mine.

As it happens I took shipment on 5 kg of Rootgrow yesterday. I was very
impressed, they sent this heavy package by overnight delivery, at the
regular postal cost... they must have taken a loss on the shipping,
though I can only imagine that the margins on the product itself (given
its cost) are pretty good!

-E
--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 14/11/2013 10:01, Emery Davis wrote:
Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?

There might be something in it, but it could be expensive for only a
marginal improvement in strike rate and successful transplanting.

ISTR orchids actually need their symbiotic fungi to survive, and various
other fungi are said to do similar things with and for trees.

There might be something in it. I'd be interested to know how it goes.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:56:31 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

There might be something in it, but it could be expensive for only a
marginal improvement in strike rate and successful transplanting.

Again, EM is not mycorrhizae. It's not a root inoculation, but is applied
as a foliar (and bare bark in winter) spray.

Interesting though, the Acer producers I cited don't use mycorrhizae
AFAIK, although I know of others who do. I assume this is a cost issue,
since young Japanese Acer grafts are only worth around 4-5 pounds,
mycorrhizae would as you point out be an expensive addition. EM on the
other hand can be "brewed" like vinegar, so the cost is very low.

-E

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 14/11/2013 12:06, Emery Davis wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:56:31 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

There might be something in it, but it could be expensive for only a
marginal improvement in strike rate and successful transplanting.

Again, EM is not mycorrhizae. It's not a root inoculation, but is applied
as a foliar (and bare bark in winter) spray.

Why spraying anaerobic bacteria at a tree should be expected to do them
any good is a mystery to me. Botulism is a fairly common anaerobe too.

Interesting though, the Acer producers I cited don't use mycorrhizae
AFAIK, although I know of others who do. I assume this is a cost issue,
since young Japanese Acer grafts are only worth around 4-5 pounds,
mycorrhizae would as you point out be an expensive addition. EM on the
other hand can be "brewed" like vinegar, so the cost is very low.

-E

Having looked at your link more carefully I am inclined to think quackery.

About on a par with injecting infusion of garlic juice into dying
horsechestnut trees at £400/year/tree to try and keep them alive.
Another highly questionable treatment being exported out of Holland.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Emery Davis" wrote

Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?


I was given a kit to brew EM up in some years ago. I did use it but only on
established plants and the results seemed OK but nothing some fertilizer
wouldn't have done. Not a spectacular success but certainly not a disaster
either.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:34:51 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 14/11/2013 12:06, Emery Davis wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:56:31 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

[] []but is
applied as a foliar (and bare bark in winter) spray.

Why spraying anaerobic bacteria at a tree should be expected to do them
any good is a mystery to me. Botulism is a fairly common anaerobe too.


I think the idea is that it gets into fractures in the bark and healing
graft unions. Sudden graft failure isn't always fully understood but
there does seem to be a bacterial component.

[]

Having looked at your link more carefully I am inclined to think
quackery.


Agreed, it is difficult to separate the chaff and there are certainly
some claims that border on it. But the conclusion seems somewhat quickly
arrived at...

[]
Another highly questionable treatment being exported out of Holland.

Heh, the Dutch are nothing if not good businessmen!

-E




--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 14/11/2013 10:01, Emery Davis wrote:
Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?




I know little or nothing about it, but found this 'review' (for want of
a better name) on Youtube. You may find it interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rZSNB8UAsQ

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

On 14/11/2013 17:19, Spider wrote:
On 14/11/2013 10:01, Emery Davis wrote:
Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting, but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?




I know little or nothing about it, but found this 'review' (for want of
a better name) on Youtube. You may find it interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rZSNB8UAsQ

I know nothing about EM what ever that is.
Your link gave ma an article about a Japanese warship, well all I know
about Nipon is it's good for getting rid of ants, but I doubt you would
want a warship to do that.
Google gave me some info but it reminds me of the old idea of spraying
your plants with sour milk.
David

On 14/11/2013 17:53, David Hill wrote:
On 14/11/2013 17:19, Spider wrote:
On 14/11/2013 10:01, Emery Davis wrote:
Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting,
but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a
lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged
generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?




I know little or nothing about it, but found this 'review' (for want of
a better name) on Youtube. You may find it interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rZSNB8UAsQ

I know nothing about EM what ever that is.
Your link gave ma an article about a Japanese warship, well all I know
about Nipon is it's good for getting rid of ants, but I doubt you would
want a warship to do that.
Google gave me some info but it reminds me of the old idea of spraying
your plants with sour milk.
David




Forgive me, David, but I think you may have confused my link with
Emery's original link, which was about a Japanese warship.
I've just clicked on my youtube link and it does refer to EM. Have
another go.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:18:42 +0000, Spider wrote:

Forgive me, David, but I think you may have confused my link with
Emery's original link, which was about a Japanese warship.
I've just clicked on my youtube link and it does refer to EM. Have
another go.

Whoops, Japanese warship eh? Sorry about that. Spider your link was
fine. Seemed like a bit of salesmanship, though I did see in Boskoop a
marked difference between seedlings treated with EM and those that
weren't.

You can get what I was attempting to post by searching wikipedia for
"effective microorganism".

-E



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 14/11/2013 21:18, Spider wrote:
On 14/11/2013 17:53, David Hill wrote:
On 14/11/2013 17:19, Spider wrote:
On 14/11/2013 10:01, Emery Davis wrote:
Wondering what the group thinks of EM (effective micro-organisms). If
you don't know what this is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Effective_microorganism. EM is typically used in Bokashi composting,
but
also in horticulture and disaster cleanup. It is used by the leading
Dutch Acer producers (Esveld, Van der Maat) and seems to be gaining a
lot
of traction in Holland generally. For Acers it is acknowledged
generally
to be the best tool against bacterial wilt in young plants.

Like many things, there's a lot of hooey to go along with the science,
and it isn't always to differentiate.

I don't use EM but I might give it a try on young plants.

What do you think?




I know little or nothing about it, but found this 'review' (for want of
a better name) on Youtube. You may find it interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rZSNB8UAsQ

I know nothing about EM what ever that is.
Your link gave ma an article about a Japanese warship, well all I know
about Nipon is it's good for getting rid of ants, but I doubt you would
want a warship to do that.
Google gave me some info but it reminds me of the old idea of spraying
your plants with sour milk.
David




Forgive me, David, but I think you may have confused my link with
Emery's original link, which was about a Japanese warship.
I've just clicked on my youtube link and it does refer to EM. Have
another go.

Sorry I didn't make it clear about which link.
Yours was as advertised Spider
David