On 07/11/2013 12:30, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 11:05:38 +0000, Bill Grey said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
I'm concerned for the future of this group which I've enjoyed hugely
for 16 years. Some have been here longer than that. But given the
number of those who used to post and who lurk (I know of a few, not
many now) the response to the suggestion that we widen our horizons,
look at a blog and consider looking at others and discussing their
content, were - forgive the pun - seeds on stony ground. I don't
know if this is because of disinterest, complacence or a belief that
urg will continue into the mists of time. It won't. Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

You have a point Sacha. C ouple of NGs that I have posted to have
declined dramatically or gone to the wall. As you say, Facebook has
taken over quite a lot, and although I have jined it I can't say I
enjoy uing it.

Nick who posts on this NG must surely have noticed the decline in
correspondence in the Walking NG - it is largely subscribed to by
technical questions about gear. A Fishing NG has just about finished,
not having had a bite for a couple of years. An American NG - at least
largely subscribed to by Americans, has slipped out of sight into
Facebook.

I have often said I'm no gardener compared to the contributors to URG,
but I can sometimes offer suggetsions (though not intellectual
gardening stuff) and enjoy receiving advice whenever I need some. The
"old hands" are needed as reference points for us gardening dumbos.


Bill

Thanks for contributing to the discussion Bill and the same to John. I
think those of us who enjoy urg and want it to continue have to look at
introducing other topics. And we can do that by looking further afield
and coming back here to discuss and learn. The number of regular
posters here is now rather small and I have seen just the same on the uk
food group. Numbers are way down. Yes, I think Facebook has taken over
to a large extent and as discussion groups can be formed there, I think
that will continue to be the case. To keep a newsgroup alive and an
interesting place to be, we have to have more and more interesting
topics but that is just my opinion. If others don't want that it's a
group decision.
Perhaps I am a Luddite, though I have been in computers for the last 45
years I will have to be dragged screaming before I join either facebook
and twitter, the security side of it scares the hell out of me.

On 07/11/2013 15:49, Broadback wrote:

Perhaps I am a Luddite, though I have been in computers for the last 45
years I will have to be dragged screaming before I join either facebook
and twitter, the security side of it scares the hell out of me.

I feel the same way. I want to participate in topic related discussions
without my real life identity or other aspects of my life being put on
public display. I participate in several online forums and my identity
is distinct in each of them with no overlap.

People should be able to ask and respond to gardening related questions
without giving away their entire life story to strangers in the process!

--
David in Normandy.

On 07/11/2013 15:48, David Hill wrote:
On 07/11/2013 11:42, Jake wrote:
In one FAQ there is reference to using Armillatox to
kill vine weevil. Yep, lots probably use it for such purposes but
doing so is illegal and advocating doing so could have repercussions!

Not quite.
Using it to kill Vine wevil is not illegal. It's telling people that it
will kill wevil that's illegal, the same as saying that if you boil up
rhubarb leaves you can use the resulting liquid as an insecticide, so I
won't mention it.
David @ a greatly improved side of Swansea Bay

Not that you said any of the above, but hypothetically speaking, what
would other people tend to say the resulting insecticide would be useful
against? The fact I own several rhubarb plants and have various insect
pests in my garden is merely circumstantial and not relevant.

--
David in Normandy.

On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in this
thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one question,
then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak! One or two
people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting through
Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would say that the
majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful and welcoming
side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here that there's no
such thing as a silly question but there may be a few daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough to
help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars are fed
up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions but to a
newby things they really need to know if they are to learn. Especially if
several new people ask the same questions as they arrive. If you want to
make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot of those simple
questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is happening with folk
from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly join in with a discussion
which is beyond their ken. (and which is one reason I lurk). As someone
commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking questions
youngsters! Especially me!!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-11-07 16:31:36 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough
to help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars
are fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions
but to a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn.
Especially if several new people ask the same questions as they arrive.
If you want to make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot
of those simple questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is
happening with folk from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly
join in with a discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which is one
reason I lurk). As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!

Oh, I see. I think, knowing that poster, it was a joke about the few
who are not very welcoming, versus the many who are! Ime, most urglers
answer repetitive questions with patience and are usually anxious to
help and advise. Personally, sometimes I find that posts from people
new to gardening are more interesting. They can present a challenge in
terms of helping with design questions, or how to use a garden and
finally, what to plant in it.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2013-11-07 14:53:34 +0000, David in Normandy said:

On 07/11/2013 15:49, Broadback wrote:

Perhaps I am a Luddite, though I have been in computers for the last 45
years I will have to be dragged screaming before I join either facebook
and twitter, the security side of it scares the hell out of me.

I feel the same way. I want to participate in topic related discussions
without my real life identity or other aspects of my life being put on
public display. I participate in several online forums and my identity
is distinct in each of them with no overlap.

People should be able to ask and respond to gardening related questions
without giving away their entire life story to strangers in the process!

Also possible on Facebook and Twitter where a lot of people use
pseudonyms. Half the trouble that occurs on bits of Twitter I never see
is caused by people posting vitriol anonymously! So far, I have never
encountered anything remotely like that on either Twitter or Facebook.
And again, people need know as little or as much as you choose.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 Jake wrote:

It also needs a new domain name. "u-r-g.co.uk" conveys nothing to the
uninitiated.

That's true, though there's little we can do about that as it belongs to
Cormaic.

No problem with keeping the existing domain but adding another which
is more understandable e.g. uk-rec-gardening.co.uk. Indeed I doubt
Cormaic would be bothered by any change in the domain name as long as
we stuck with .co.uk (other.uk options cost more!).

org.uk costs the same as co.uk. If we wanted to change,
uk-rec-gardening.co.uk and ...org.uk are available, as are
ukrecgardening.co.uk etc.

You'd really need forum software such as PHPBB.

Just had a look at that. It *might* just be a replacement for the usenet
group. But, as you say, there are overheads. Is it possible that a new
user could pose a question but not have it published until it has been
"moderated" - as with a moderated newsgroup or mailing list.

I think Cormaic now acts also as a small ISP so the cost to him is
minimal. He said that he's willing to host it free of charge to us as
long as we need it.

Yep. Just checked. He's using Fasthosts as the registrar so assuming
they're not charging some admin add-on, reg fee's only £3.49 a year +
VAT.

That seems to be the going rate just now. I've just registered a domain
for Reading Crematorium Organists (called readingcremorganists.org.uk -
what else?!) for about the same price.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 16:31:36 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would say
that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful and
welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here that
there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few daft
answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough to
help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars are
fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions but to
a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn. Especially
if several new people ask the same questions as they arrive. If you want
to make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot of those simple
questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is happening with folk
from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly join in with a
discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which is one reason I lurk).
As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!

Oh, I see. I think, knowing that poster, it was a joke about the few who
are not very welcoming, versus the many who are! Ime, most urglers answer
repetitive questions with patience and are usually anxious to help and
advise. Personally, sometimes I find that posts from people new to
gardening are more interesting. They can present a challenge in terms of
helping with design questions, or how to use a garden and finally, what to
plant in it.

If that is the case then I am sure new people will post here and stay! I
think I will mainly lurk because no only do I not know answers, I often
don't know the questions either.

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will
be useful.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-11-07 17:00:46 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 16:31:36 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough
to help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars
are fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions
but to a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn.
Especially if several new people ask the same questions as they arrive.
If you want to make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot of
those simple questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is
happening with folk from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly
join in with a discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which is one
reason I lurk). As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!

Oh, I see. I think, knowing that poster, it was a joke about the few
who are not very welcoming, versus the many who are! Ime, most urglers
answer repetitive questions with patience and are usually anxious to
help and advise. Personally, sometimes I find that posts from people
new to gardening are more interesting. They can present a challenge in
terms of helping with design questions, or how to use a garden and
finally, what to plant in it.

If that is the case then I am sure new people will post here and stay!
I think I will mainly lurk because no only do I not know answers, I
often don't know the questions either.

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it
will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 07/11/2013 15:13, Jake wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 14:48:56 +0000, David Hill
wrote:

On 07/11/2013 11:42, Jake wrote:
In one FAQ there is reference to using Armillatox to
kill vine weevil. Yep, lots probably use it for such purposes but
doing so is illegal and advocating doing so could have repercussions!

Not quite.
Using it to kill Vine wevil is not illegal. It's telling people that it
will kill wevil that's illegal, the same as saying that if you boil up
rhubarb leaves you can use the resulting liquid as an insecticide, so I
won't mention it.
David @ a greatly improved side of Swansea Bay

Quoted from RHS Web site:

Active ingredient: Tar oils and tar acids
Brand name(s): Armillatox (Armillatox remains on the market as a
disinfectant, but is no longer permitted to be used for pesticidal
purposes)
Main use: Vine weevil eggs
Last date for use: 31.12.03

But correctly, again from the RHS:

"Only products approved by the government can be used as pesticides,
so home-made pesticides brewed from concoctions of rhubarb, cigarette
butts or even washing-up liquid are now outside the law."

When I spoke to the chap who runs the firm producing Armillatox he said
that they were no longer allowed to sell it as a pesticide unless they
submitted it for testing at a cost running into the thousands of pounds.
What you use it for after buying it is up to you.
I will say it's a good deterrent for badgers, they don't like the smell,
I've also used it where I get a lot of cars parking at night, the smell
can linger for a few weeks, any question as to why I sprayed it, it's
because certain people get out of their cars and relieve themselves in
the gateway, so naturally I need disinfectant.

On 07/11/2013 16:31, Ophelia wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are
not welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough to
help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars are
fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions but
to a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn.
Especially if several new people ask the same questions as they
arrive. If you want to make new people welcome, you are going to get
a lot of those simple questions from beginners. I suspect that is what
is happening with folk from that Banter group. Beginners cannot
possibly join in with a discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which
is one reason I lurk). As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!


That comment was mine and was Sarcastic, A genuine problem is always
welcome as far as I am concerned, or a question that has given
conflicting answers.
But I don't have time for people who ask a question that they can look
up on google but would rather have someone else look it up for them.
They remind me of the person who called in one night at around 9.30pm
when I was making up the flowers for a wedding the next morning,
"I just wanted to ask you how I should plant these azaleas I bought in
Woolworth s today"
I told them to go back to Woollies and ask,
David @ a still almost precipitation free side of Swansea Bay.

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 17:00:46 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 16:31:36 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please
say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are
not welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough
to help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars
are fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions
but to a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn.
Especially if several new people ask the same questions as they arrive.
If you want to make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot of
those simple questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is
happening with folk from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly
join in with a discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which is one
reason I lurk). As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know
about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!

Oh, I see. I think, knowing that poster, it was a joke about the few who
are not very welcoming, versus the many who are! Ime, most urglers
answer repetitive questions with patience and are usually anxious to
help and advise. Personally, sometimes I find that posts from people
new to gardening are more interesting. They can present a challenge in
terms of helping with design questions, or how to use a garden and
finally, what to plant in it.

If that is the case then I am sure new people will post here and stay! I
think I will mainly lurk because no only do I not know answers, I often
don't know the questions either.

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it
will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"David Hill" wrote in message
...

That comment was mine and was Sarcastic, A genuine problem is always
welcome as far as I am concerned, or a question that has given conflicting
answers.

) ok


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 07/11/2013 20:08, Jake wrote:


Essential requirement for a moderator is 5 mile thick skin.


I'm a moderator on a very large forum and yes, aside from diplomatic
skills rivalling those of an international diplomat, a thick skin
certainly helps! lol You also need to be a detective and have a keen
nose for detecting bullshit. I've been called every insult imaginable at
some time or other and even been threatened with physical harm. Another
good reason for keeping one's real life identity separate from forum
identities - that's the thing I dislike about facebook, its all
interconnected.
--
David in Normandy.