Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area, but
here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh, well if
you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

Once, I wanted to move to rural Wales so I tried to learn some Welsh. I can
ask you what your name is and a few other things like "I have been working
hard today" and I knew a lot more.

Welsh is a fascinating language and had I moved there I would have got
better at it, but as I didn't, I didn't.
I've forgotten most of it.
I took Welsh lessons from a North Wales person which didn't help much for
rural Cardiganshire.

On 10/08/2013 11:00, David Hill wrote:
Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

--
David in Normandy.

David in Normandy wrote:
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

What you don't realise is that that phone call /was/ your lesson.

On 11/08/2013 12:43, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 11:52:05 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 10/08/2013 11:00, David Hill wrote:
Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

How many similar government officers in UK speak French?

Dutch tax forms are available in several third world languages, but
not in English. The tax office won't even answer calls/communications
made in English.


Well considering the object was to help English people to learn to speak
French the French initiative failed badly as only those who could
already speak French could book a place on the course... to learn to
speak French. It seems blindingly obvious to me that in these specific
circumstances the person chosen to field these calls from English people
should be able to speak English.

Here in France all forms are in French only. I don't object to this. It
is France and I take it to be the duty of people who settle here to
learn French.

--
David in Normandy.

On 11/08/2013 14:19, Victoria Conlan wrote:
David in Normandy wrote:
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

What you don't realise is that that phone call /was/ your lesson.


I'd only just moved to France and spoke very little French at the time.
The "lesson" was a total failure. I've since learned French on my own;
without the help of the ill thought out French initiative.

--
David in Normandy.

In article , am
says...

On 11/08/2013 12:43, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 11:52:05 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 10/08/2013 11:00, David Hill wrote:
Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

How many similar government officers in UK speak French?

Dutch tax forms are available in several third world languages, but
not in English. The tax office won't even answer calls/communications
made in English.


Well considering the object was to help English people to learn to speak
French the French initiative failed badly as only those who could
already speak French could book a place on the course... to learn to
speak French. It seems blindingly obvious to me that in these specific
circumstances the person chosen to field these calls from English people
should be able to speak English.

What if the applicants are NOT English speaking Brits? Surely the
classes would be for any immigrant intending to learn French.

Janet

In article , am
says...

On 11/08/2013 14:19, Victoria Conlan wrote:
David in Normandy wrote:
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

What you don't realise is that that phone call /was/ your lesson.


I'd only just moved to France and spoke very little French at the time.
The "lesson" was a total failure. I've since learned French on my own;
without the help of the ill thought out French initiative.

Poor initiative? Couldn't you find a single bilingual person to help
you apply?

There are adult total-beginner English-language classes provided for
immigrants in the UK; I taught them for many years. Classes were
invariably mixed-nationality. The ONLY teaching medium was and still is
English. It was impossible to provide a telephone switchboard that
spoke all the languages used by students. Very often some could not read
or write our alphabet; some were unable to read even their own. Yet they
all had managed to find out about the classes, get enrolled, and turn up
at the right time and place.

Janet.

On 2013-08-11 14:21:27 +0100, David in Normandy said:

On 11/08/2013 12:43, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 11:52:05 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 10/08/2013 11:00, David Hill wrote:
Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

How many similar government officers in UK speak French?

Dutch tax forms are available in several third world languages, but
not in English. The tax office won't even answer calls/communications
made in English.


Well considering the object was to help English people to learn to
speak French the French initiative failed badly as only those who could
already speak French could book a place on the course... to learn to
speak French. It seems blindingly obvious to me that in these specific
circumstances the person chosen to field these calls from English
people should be able to speak English.

Here in France all forms are in French only. I don't object to this. It
is France and I take it to be the duty of people who settle here to
learn French.

I wish our political masters here took the same view, frankly. I have
never understood the desirability of settling in any foreign country
and not wanting to integrate with its people or learn to speak their
language.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 11/08/2013 15:26, Janet wrote:
In article , am
says...

On 11/08/2013 12:43, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 11:52:05 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 10/08/2013 11:00, David Hill wrote:
Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

The French government introduced some courses a few years so the
resident Brits could learn French. They published a phone number for us
to contact to book a place on the course. However, the person on the
other end of the phone didn't speak a word of English, only French.

How many similar government officers in UK speak French?

Dutch tax forms are available in several third world languages, but
not in English. The tax office won't even answer calls/communications
made in English.


Well considering the object was to help English people to learn to speak
French the French initiative failed badly as only those who could
already speak French could book a place on the course... to learn to
speak French. It seems blindingly obvious to me that in these specific
circumstances the person chosen to field these calls from English people
should be able to speak English.

What if the applicants are NOT English speaking Brits? Surely the
classes would be for any immigrant intending to learn French.

Janet


The classes were primarily aimed at the huge number of Brits who'd moved
to France around a decade ago.

--
David in Normandy.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 10:00:48 +0100, David Hill wrote:

Talking of political correctness gone mad,
Yesterday we had a booklet about beginners Welsh classes in the area,
but here everything has to be Bi lingual so half of it was in Welsh,
well if you could read that half you wouldn't need the classes.

If charitable, it could be that they were for Welsh speakers, so that they
could pick up the leaflet and hand it to their English speaking
acquaintances knowing that it was exactly what they needed.

However, you are probably right.

Cheers

Dave R

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 15:21:27 +0200, David in Normandy wrote:

Here in France all forms are in French only. I don't object to this. It
is France and I take it to be the duty of people who settle here to
learn French.

Darned right! I wish everyone thought as you.

Like the story though. Living here, I find it entirely believable!



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 2013-08-12 09:06:31 +0100, Martin said:

On 11 Aug 2013 23:22:00 GMT, Emery Davis
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 15:21:27 +0200, David in Normandy wrote:

Here in France all forms are in French only. I don't object to this. It
is France and I take it to be the duty of people who settle here to
learn French.

Darned right! I wish everyone thought as you.

Like the story though. Living here, I find it entirely believable!

In The Netherlands there are many multinational companies and
International Organisations/Agencies, with staff who only work in NL
for comparatively short times. It's not unreasonable to expect the
Dutch tax people to answer phone calls made in English, especially as
they do answer calls, and provide forms, in Moroccan and Turkish etc.
They do/did provide a special office to help International
Agency/Organisation staff with tax problems.

My brief experience of the Netherlands was when I lived in Belgium for
a while. Everyone I encountered seemed to speak excellent English and
French!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 12/08/2013 10:32, Sacha wrote:

My brief experience of the Netherlands was when I lived in Belgium for
a while. Everyone I encountered seemed to speak excellent English and
French!

Ihe best thing to do in Belgium is to speak English to save offending
the Flemmings or Walloons by speaking the wrong language. Of course in
restaurants and bars the universal sign language is well understood.
Making a book sign for "could I please have a menu?" and writing on
hand for "the bill please."
--
Phil Cook

But not everyone has that attitude. Indeed it would appear to be fairly uncommon in this country. The English settling in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, India and Africa mostly carried on speaking English, both when they became the majority and when they remained the minority. The Anglo-Normans settling in Ireland in the 12th century mostly ended up speaking Irish, but the later plantation initiated by Cromwell imposed their own language. The English wine trading communities in Porto and Madeira still speak English, set their children to English public schools, etc. A lot of English retirees to Spain seem to carry on speaking English.

Just as those examples exist, it is hardly surprising that there are some in the other direction.