Following advice on the ng, stuck twigs of alder into the ground in
the hope that they would sprout. They haven't, well, not yet.

Following advice of this ng, I bought a "Hydropod Propagator" from
Greenhouse Sensation. The cuttings grew, and then died. They never
produced any roots. But this device seems to be aimed at green stems
rather than hardwood cuttings.

So what should I try now? The buds now have 2 -3 leaves, not fully
open. A "Mist propagator such as I knew in my youth seems to be what's
wanted; an electrically heated bed of compost and sand, with a spray
controlled by an "electronic leaf" seems to be what's wanted. Any
recommendations? And what about lighting levels and other those
details which seem to be too small mention, but which make all the
difference?

Michael Bell

--

"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
Following advice on the ng, stuck twigs of alder into the ground in
the hope that they would sprout. They haven't, well, not yet.

Following advice of this ng, I bought a "Hydropod Propagator" from
Greenhouse Sensation. The cuttings grew, and then died. They never
produced any roots. But this device seems to be aimed at green stems
rather than hardwood cuttings.

So what should I try now? The buds now have 2 -3 leaves, not fully
open. A "Mist propagator such as I knew in my youth seems to be what's
wanted; an electrically heated bed of compost and sand, with a spray
controlled by an "electronic leaf" seems to be what's wanted. Any
recommendations? And what about lighting levels and other those
details which seem to be too small mention, but which make all the
difference?

Michael Bell

--
Although I know it is your hope and dream to get alders with big seed to
make food from, maybe it's now time to say, maybe, that it's not possible.
I hate to say it, but I'm not going to encourage you any more just to be
kind because that what I was doing.

In message
"Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
Following advice on the ng, stuck twigs of alder into the ground in
the hope that they would sprout. They haven't, well, not yet.

Following advice of this ng, I bought a "Hydropod Propagator" from
Greenhouse Sensation. The cuttings grew, and then died. They never
produced any roots. But this device seems to be aimed at green stems
rather than hardwood cuttings.

So what should I try now? The buds now have 2 -3 leaves, not fully
open. A "Mist propagator such as I knew in my youth seems to be what's
wanted; an electrically heated bed of compost and sand, with a spray
controlled by an "electronic leaf" seems to be what's wanted. Any
recommendations? And what about lighting levels and other those
details which seem to be too small mention, but which make all the
difference?

Michael Bell

--
Although I know it is your hope and dream to get alders with big seed to
make food from, maybe it's now time to say, maybe, that it's not possible.
I hate to say it, but I'm not going to encourage you any more just to be
kind because that what I was doing.

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Michael Bell







--

On Sun, 26 May 2013 07:26:28 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Not all trees can be grown from cuttings. For many Japanese maple
cultivars, and several maple species, it is virtually impossible. Some
work at a low percentage rate, then are liable to fail suddenly. Others
are viable at a commercial scale, and there are now a few nurseries
propagating them in this manner, even though some are leery of their long
term health.

Assuming you are attempting to propagate A. glutinosa, here is what Dirr
and Heuser have to say in "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant
Propagation."

"CUTTINGS: Cuttings (no time given), wound, 8000 ppm IBA-talc, rooted
64%. Without treatment there was no rooting. In general, this species is
produced from seed, however, two notable cutleaf selections, 'Imperialis'
and 'Laciniata', can be rooted successfully. Mid-July cuttings of
'Imperialis' rooted 34% in 7 weeks when treated with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP
and 58% with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP plus Rootone. Late June 'Laciniata'
cuttings rooted 34% in 7 weeks with a wound and 8000 ppm IBA-talc plus
thiram, mist. Another report noted 'Imperialis' rooted easily from
softwoods when treated with 3000 ppm IBA-talc."

Other information is offered on grafting and tissue culture, several Alnus
species are covered.

Dirr and Heuser is a standard horticultural reference that should be
available at any decent university library, and many public libraries.
May I suggest that use of the literature would be a good idea given how
long your experiments are likely to run.

Good luck,

-E

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

In message
Emery Davis wrote:

On Sun, 26 May 2013 07:26:28 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Not all trees can be grown from cuttings. For many Japanese maple
cultivars, and several maple species, it is virtually impossible. Some
work at a low percentage rate, then are liable to fail suddenly. Others
are viable at a commercial scale, and there are now a few nurseries
propagating them in this manner, even though some are leery of their long
term health.

Assuming you are attempting to propagate A. glutinosa, here is what Dirr
and Heuser have to say in "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant
Propagation."

"CUTTINGS: Cuttings (no time given), wound, 8000 ppm IBA-talc, rooted
64%. Without treatment there was no rooting. In general, this species is
produced from seed, however, two notable cutleaf selections, 'Imperialis'
and 'Laciniata', can be rooted successfully. Mid-July cuttings of
'Imperialis' rooted 34% in 7 weeks when treated with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP
and 58% with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP plus Rootone. Late June 'Laciniata'
cuttings rooted 34% in 7 weeks with a wound and 8000 ppm IBA-talc plus
thiram, mist. Another report noted 'Imperialis' rooted easily from
softwoods when treated with 3000 ppm IBA-talc."

Other information is offered on grafting and tissue culture, several Alnus
species are covered.

Dirr and Heuser is a standard horticultural reference that should be
available at any decent university library, and many public libraries.
May I suggest that use of the literature would be a good idea given how
long your experiments are likely to run.

Good luck,

-E


Thank you very much. It's good to see that I am not too late for this.
At least it identifies the rooting powder so that I can get the same.
In my local garden shop I looked at one product and its label, claimed
to be wonderful, also claiming to be "all natural materials, no
artificial chemicals". In other words Homeopathy!

Thank you for this.

Michael Bell


--

On 26/05/2013 08:47, Emery Davis wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2013 07:26:28 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Not all trees can be grown from cuttings. For many Japanese maple
cultivars, and several maple species, it is virtually impossible. Some
work at a low percentage rate, then are liable to fail suddenly. Others
are viable at a commercial scale, and there are now a few nurseries
propagating them in this manner, even though some are leery of their long
term health.

Assuming you are attempting to propagate A. glutinosa, here is what Dirr
and Heuser have to say in "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant
Propagation."

"CUTTINGS: Cuttings (no time given), wound, 8000 ppm IBA-talc, rooted
64%. Without treatment there was no rooting. In general, this species is
produced from seed, however, two notable cutleaf selections, 'Imperialis'
and 'Laciniata', can be rooted successfully. Mid-July cuttings of
'Imperialis' rooted 34% in 7 weeks when treated with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP
and 58% with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP plus Rootone. Late June 'Laciniata'
cuttings rooted 34% in 7 weeks with a wound and 8000 ppm IBA-talc plus
thiram, mist. Another report noted 'Imperialis' rooted easily from
softwoods when treated with 3000 ppm IBA-talc."

Other information is offered on grafting and tissue culture, several Alnus
species are covered.

Dirr and Heuser is a standard horticultural reference that should be
available at any decent university library, and many public libraries.
May I suggest that use of the literature would be a good idea given how
long your experiments are likely to run.

Good luck,

-E

In the past I used IBA bought as chemical in minute quantities, it had
to be dissolved in methyl alcohol then diluted to strength with water,
it was a job that required chemical scales which I had access to at a
local university.
It should be remembered that the alcohol is a poison and can be absorbed
through the skin..
I thought you were going to graft your chosen cultivators.

In message
David Hill wrote:

On 26/05/2013 08:47, Emery Davis wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2013 07:26:28 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Not all trees can be grown from cuttings. For many Japanese maple
cultivars, and several maple species, it is virtually impossible. Some
work at a low percentage rate, then are liable to fail suddenly. Others
are viable at a commercial scale, and there are now a few nurseries
propagating them in this manner, even though some are leery of their long
term health.

Assuming you are attempting to propagate A. glutinosa, here is what Dirr
and Heuser have to say in "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant
Propagation."

"CUTTINGS: Cuttings (no time given), wound, 8000 ppm IBA-talc, rooted
64%. Without treatment there was no rooting. In general, this species is
produced from seed, however, two notable cutleaf selections, 'Imperialis'
and 'Laciniata', can be rooted successfully. Mid-July cuttings of
'Imperialis' rooted 34% in 7 weeks when treated with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP
and 58% with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP plus Rootone. Late June 'Laciniata'
cuttings rooted 34% in 7 weeks with a wound and 8000 ppm IBA-talc plus
thiram, mist. Another report noted 'Imperialis' rooted easily from
softwoods when treated with 3000 ppm IBA-talc."

Other information is offered on grafting and tissue culture, several Alnus
species are covered.

Dirr and Heuser is a standard horticultural reference that should be
available at any decent university library, and many public libraries.
May I suggest that use of the literature would be a good idea given how
long your experiments are likely to run.

Good luck,

-E

In the past I used IBA bought as chemical in minute quantities, it had
to be dissolved in methyl alcohol then diluted to strength with water,
it was a job that required chemical scales which I had access to at a
local university.
It should be remembered that the alcohol is a poison and can be absorbed
through the skin..

The reference above quotes preparations which sound like commercially
available preparations as "rooting hormone" etc, so I'll buy it in
these forms.

I thought you were going to graft your chosen cultivators.

I'm doing both. If I find a seed I like on a "wild" tree, I have no
idea what its other parent was. Probably a tree close upwind of where
I found the seed of interest, but which way was the wind blowing that
day? It's a guess. If I put pollination bags on trees of interest,
tidy-minded people pull off not just the bag, but the whole branch. I
just want to keep hold of my good finds; I put a lot of effort into
finding them.

Michael Bell


--

On 26/05/2013 09:24, Michael Bell wrote:
Thank you very much. It's good to see that I am not too late for this.
At least it identifies the rooting powder so that I can get the same.
In my local garden shop I looked at one product and its label, claimed
to be wonderful, also claiming to be "all natural materials, no
artificial chemicals". In other words Homeopathy!

"all natural materials, no artifical chemicals" does not necessarily
equate to homeopathy. It might mean that it contains plant hormones
found in nature rather than similar chemicals not found in nature. It
might further mean that the plant hormones are extracted from plants,
rather than synthesised.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message
Emery Davis wrote:

On Sun, 26 May 2013 07:26:28 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Not all trees can be grown from cuttings. For many Japanese maple
cultivars, and several maple species, it is virtually impossible. Some
work at a low percentage rate, then are liable to fail suddenly. Others
are viable at a commercial scale, and there are now a few nurseries
propagating them in this manner, even though some are leery of their long
term health.

Assuming you are attempting to propagate A. glutinosa, here is what Dirr
and Heuser have to say in "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant
Propagation."

"CUTTINGS: Cuttings (no time given), wound, 8000 ppm IBA-talc, rooted
64%. Without treatment there was no rooting. In general, this species is
produced from seed, however, two notable cutleaf selections, 'Imperialis'
and 'Laciniata', can be rooted successfully. Mid-July cuttings of
'Imperialis' rooted 34% in 7 weeks when treated with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP
and 58% with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP plus Rootone. Late June 'Laciniata'
cuttings rooted 34% in 7 weeks with a wound and 8000 ppm IBA-talc plus
thiram, mist. Another report noted 'Imperialis' rooted easily from
softwoods when treated with 3000 ppm IBA-talc."

Other information is offered on grafting and tissue culture, several Alnus
species are covered.

Dirr and Heuser is a standard horticultural reference that should be
available at any decent university library, and many public libraries.
May I suggest that use of the literature would be a good idea given how
long your experiments are likely to run.

Good luck,

-E

I am buying this book from Amazon. Rather than photocopies from
library books, it is better to have the book in your hand. £25. Cheap!
And so it should be, Amazon pay too little tax!

Michael Bell

--

On Wed, 29 May 2013 22:17:52 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I am buying this book from Amazon. Rather than photocopies from library
books, it is better to have the book in your hand. £25. Cheap!
And so it should be, Amazon pay too little tax!


Do bare in mind that only a small section deals with Alnus. Still, an
excellent reference.

For my part, I find Amazon an excellent business, their customer service
is first rate and as a long time client I've had several minor
difficulties (in the vast majority of trouble free purchases) that have
always been dealt with in an entirely satisfactory manner.

Reference books are often expensive, but I suppose there's not that much
demand.

Good luck,

-E

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On Wed, 29 May 2013 23:58:45 +0200, Martin wrote:


I have the impression that the VAT paid goes to Luxembourg. Am I right?

I doubt it, but their headquarters is there. I have a friend who works
for them in the states, he's just gone there for a 2 year stint. Why
would UK VAT be sent abroad?



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On Thu, 30 May 2013 18:08:12 +0200, Martin wrote:

On 30 May 2013 13:55:56 GMT, Emery Davis wrote:

On Wed, 29 May 2013 23:58:45 +0200, Martin wrote:


I have the impression that the VAT paid goes to Luxembourg. Am I
right?

I doubt it, but their headquarters is there. I have a friend who works
for them in the states, he's just gone there for a 2 year stint. Why
would UK VAT be sent abroad?

Payments are paid to a Luxembourg account. Symantec have a similar iffy
financial set up. If I pay for a Symantec licence in NL, not only is the
VAT paid in Ireland, but I am charged the Irish rate of VAT. I get
around this by buying US licences from Amazon.co.uk One mystery is that
Amazon sells UK licenses and US licences for the same products, I wonder
why anybody buys the UK licences.

I guess they go by Amazon EU. Still I won't tell you what I think of
your giving your money to Symantec...

Until fairly recently Amazon customers were paying no VAT because
products were shipped from the Channel Islands

Not me, I just looked and I paid VAT as far back as 2001. Delivered to a
UK address, too.



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On Fri, 31 May 2013 00:11:58 +0200, Martin wrote:

On 30 May 2013 16:37:25 GMT, Emery Davis
wrote:

[]



Until fairly recently Amazon customers were paying no VAT because
products were shipped from the Channel Islands

Not me, I just looked and I paid VAT as far back as 2001. Delivered to
a UK address, too.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...amazon-forces-
publishers-pay-vat-ebook

Refers to ebooks, not all products.

http://www.xlab.co.uk/weblog/538

Refers to occasional specials offered VAT free, not all products.

All my Amazon purchases are paid via a UK bank account and delivered to
a UK address.

And you've never paid any VAT, on any products? Or perhaps you missed a
"sometimes" in the first sentence.

BTW, pls try and snip, it really makes life easier for the rest of us,
TIA.

-E

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:35:24 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/05/2013 09:24, Michael Bell wrote:
Thank you very much. It's good to see that I am not too late for this.
At least it identifies the rooting powder so that I can get the same.
In my local garden shop I looked at one product and its label, claimed
to be wonderful, also claiming to be "all natural materials, no
artificial chemicals". In other words Homeopathy!

"all natural materials, no artifical chemicals" does not necessarily
equate to homeopathy.

Homeopathy is pure water with a memory.

It might mean that it contains plant hormones
found in nature rather than similar chemicals not found in nature. It
might further mean that the plant hormones are extracted from plants,
rather than synthesised.

It might mean snake oil.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

I do so wish that Michael will not be encouraged too much in his search for
alders that will feed the planet "if I can find one with big seeds"
Or maybe I am totally wrong and that's the way to go.

What I won't do is patronise him. I do not agree with his idea that an
alder tree even with big seeds can be useful for feeding humans.

In message
"Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 May 2013 16:35:24 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

On 26/05/2013 09:24, Michael Bell wrote:
Thank you very much. It's good to see that I am not too late for this.
At least it identifies the rooting powder so that I can get the same.
In my local garden shop I looked at one product and its label, claimed
to be wonderful, also claiming to be "all natural materials, no
artificial chemicals". In other words Homeopathy!

"all natural materials, no artifical chemicals" does not necessarily
equate to homeopathy.

Homeopathy is pure water with a memory.

It might mean that it contains plant hormones
found in nature rather than similar chemicals not found in nature. It
might further mean that the plant hormones are extracted from plants,
rather than synthesised.

It might mean snake oil.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

I do so wish that Michael will not be encouraged too much in his search for
alders that will feed the planet "if I can find one with big seeds"

I have found alder seeds which are close to the size of rice grains. I
am now looking for bigger. It will be a starch belly-filler like
wheat, potatoes or rice.

Or maybe I am totally wrong and that's the way to go.

This country has been unable to feed itself since the repeal of the
Corn Laws in 1846. 40% of this country's land is "upland", unable to
grow cereals.

People help me because they have the knowledge and want to give it to
somebody who needs it. What possible harm do you think I might do? If
it doesn't work out (and it is a difficult project) then there is no
outcome, but if it does work out, what harm?

"Treason never does prosper, why what's the reason.
If treason does prosper, none dare call it treason."



Nobody backs a lost cause.

Michael Bell










--