On 2013-05-23, wrote:

In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote:

A much more useful site is
http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/

The photos are good (multiple specimens, cross sections etc),
he has good identification tools, clearly identifies poisonous
species and has good general advice.

However:
- his photos in his books are better; they are the
default standard for amateur mycologists

- it is unwise to rely on any single source of photos,
pen portraits, keys etc

Yes. he has the usual problem with Boletus satanas, of course :-)

That is almost universally claimed to be deadly, but evidence for
that is essentially absent. While there probably has been the odd
death, that is also true of many of the poisonous mushrooms NOT
classified as deadly - some people are very sensitive to particular
toxins or otherwise vulnerable. But nobody wants to risk downgrading
it to merely poisonous!

Are any of the non-deadly poisonous ones things that anyone would
actually want to eat, though? (For taste, I mean --- hallucinogenic
ones are of course a different kettle of fish.) AIUI, mushrooms are
generally divided into (1) tasty & safe, (2) dangerous, & (3) neither
--- with the majority falling in the 3rd group.

On 23/05/2013 12:05, wrote:
In article ,
Martin wrote:

Yes. he has the usual problem with Boletus satanas, of course :-)

That is almost universally claimed to be deadly, but evidence for
that is essentially absent. While there probably has been the odd
death, that is also true of many of the poisonous mushrooms NOT
classified as deadly - some people are very sensitive to particular
toxins or otherwise vulnerable. But nobody wants to risk downgrading
it to merely poisonous!

He says possibly "Poisonous – possibly deadly"

Not my point. He includes it in the short list of deadly fungi,
but does not include many others that have been known to cause
many more deaths. It has had a bad press for at least a century,
but there is no evidence for it. But, BECAUSE all books refer to
it as deadly, all authors play safe and continue to classify it
as deadly.

Wiki says poisonous but doesn't say deadly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boletus_satanas

Wikipedia is not a mycology reference, amateur or otherwise, and
should never be trusted with life-threatening decisions. It is
usually reliable, but that's not enough.

Even the trustworthy reference books have some misleading pictures in
them although the verbal descriptions are usually OK. The basic rule is
if you are uncertain and do not have a tame expert mycologist to hand
then don't risk eating it. We do have an expert in our village.

Most French villages you can take your pick along to the pharmacy where
someone who knows will tell you which are safe to eat. Always struck me
as bit iffy since they don't actually eat them but it seemed to work.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:

Are any of the non-deadly poisonous ones things that anyone would
actually want to eat, though? (For taste, I mean --- hallucinogenic
ones are of course a different kettle of fish.) AIUI, mushrooms are
generally divided into (1) tasty & safe, (2) dangerous, & (3) neither
--- with the majority falling in the 3rd group.

Yes, and you are correct. I once ate Boletus felleus (don't ask),
and I had minor diarrhoea but two other people had no effect;
the point there is that more of the boleti taste good than are
advisable to eat. Tom Gardner's remarks are also relevant to
this.

The critical point is that you need to be absolutely sure that
you don't eat a lethal one by mistake, because lethal means just
that - and, if they don't kill you, you may need a liver
transplant to survive. But there aren't all that many of those,
and there are a lot that are excellent and very easy to separate
from anything lethal.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:20:21 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

Most French villages you can take your pick along to the pharmacy where
someone who knows will tell you which are safe to eat. Always struck me
as bit iffy since they don't actually eat them but it seemed to work.

Not true any more IME.



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 2013-05-23, wrote:

In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:

Are any of the non-deadly poisonous ones things that anyone would
actually want to eat, though? (For taste, I mean --- hallucinogenic
ones are of course a different kettle of fish.) AIUI, mushrooms are
generally divided into (1) tasty & safe, (2) dangerous, & (3) neither
--- with the majority falling in the 3rd group.

Yes, and you are correct. I once ate Boletus felleus (don't ask),
and I had minor diarrhoea but two other people had no effect;
the point there is that more of the boleti taste good than are
advisable to eat. Tom Gardner's remarks are also relevant to
this.

Well, my 3-way division above was NOT correct then, since are tasty &
(at least somewhat) dangerous ones.


The critical point is that you need to be absolutely sure that
you don't eat a lethal one by mistake, because lethal means just
that - and, if they don't kill you, you may need a liver
transplant to survive. But there aren't all that many of those,
and there are a lot that are excellent and very easy to separate
from anything lethal.

Right.

As an expert said on the tele the other night: "All mushrooms are edible, it's just that some will prevent you from ever eating them twice." This was after a discussion on poisonous Fungi, so it was in context.

On 23/05/13 09:56, Tom Gardner wrote:
Pam Moore wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 17:02:14 +0200, Granity
wrote:


Nice set of pictures here

'10 poisonous mushrooms to watch out for in Britain - Telegraph'
(http://tinyurl.com/cb6wzlr)

Useful site, good pictures. Thank you.

A much more useful site is
http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/

The photos are good (multiple specimens, cross sections etc),
he has good identification tools, clearly identifies poisonous
species and has good general advice.

However:
- his photos in his books are better; they are the
default standard for amateur mycologists

- it is unwise to rely on any single source of photos,
pen portraits, keys etc

Not got the bandwidth here (GPRS dongle) to go looking at websites - I
take it that's Roger Phillips?

Back in the '70s the curator of the Dept. of Mycology in the British
Museum of Natural History advised be to get Roger Phillips' 'Mushrooma
and Other Fungi of Great Britain and Europe'

I still use it a lot.

--
Rusty Hinge

On 23/05/13 10:34, wrote:
In article ,

Yes. he has the usual problem with Boletus satanas, of course :-)

That is almost universally claimed to be deadly, but evidence for
that is essentially absent. While there probably has been the odd
death, that is also true of many of the poisonous mushrooms NOT
classified as deadly - some people are very sensitive to particular
toxins or otherwise vulnerable. But nobody wants to risk downgrading
it to merely poisonous!

B. satanas is edible if thoroughly cooked, as are a lot of allegedly
poisonous boleti.

You rarely see warnings that you should cook Lepista saeva, L nuda, L.
sordida before eating them, nor Macrolepiota rhacodes.

Many books accuse Lactarius torminosus and L. pubescens of being
poisonous, but if - *IF* - you know how to prepare them, they are very
worthwhile.


--
Rusty Hinge

On 23/05/13 11:27, Tom Gardner wrote:

Personal experiences...

False Chantarelle (Hygrophoropsis aurantiaca) is usually marked
as poisonous and/or inedible. However as it wasn't marked that
way in the early 70s, I've eaten lots with the only result being
that I had a delicious meal. Location: Headly Heath, North Downs,
under bracken.

It *can* be hallucigenic to some people: others eat them with no (ill)
effect.

Shaggy Parasol ((Macro)Lepiota racodes) is often marked as edible.
I've eaten it and found it delicious. On a different occasion,
however, it caused my entire alimentary canal to rebel - maybe
it is significant that it was growing under laurel.

Shouldn't think the laurel had anything to do with it - I have eaten
many M. rhacodes from beneath laurel.

M. procera looks very similar, but M. rhacodes (allegedly) is poisonous
to a small proportion of humanity.

I can eat the yellow-staining mushrooms with no ill effect - but I leave
them alone, as I have some evidence that their effect can be cumulative.

Talking of which, if you are using an old guide (or one written by
Lange), Paxillus involutus (brown roll-rim) is cumulatively deadly.

Conclusion: wild food is indeed wild.

Especially when you've just shot it.

--
Rusty Hinge

On 23/05/13 12:05, wrote:

Wikipedia is not a mycology reference, amateur or otherwise, and
should never be trusted with life-threatening decisions. It is
usually reliable, but that's not enough.

Toot rue.

B. satanas tastes vile raw, smells vile when you cook it, and hasn't
much to recommend it when it's done.

www.girolle.co.uk/fungi/

--
Rusty Hinge

RustyHinge wrote:
On 23/05/13 11:27, Tom Gardner wrote:

Personal experiences...

False Chantarelle (Hygrophoropsis aurantiaca) is usually marked
as poisonous and/or inedible. However as it wasn't marked that
way in the early 70s, I've eaten lots with the only result being
that I had a delicious meal. Location: Headly Heath, North Downs,
under bracken.

It *can* be hallucigenic to some people: others eat them with no (ill) effect.

Don't remember seeing that, and can't be bothered to excavate my books!


Shaggy Parasol ((Macro)Lepiota racodes) is often marked as edible.
I've eaten it and found it delicious. On a different occasion,
however, it caused my entire alimentary canal to rebel - maybe
it is significant that it was growing under laurel.

Shouldn't think the laurel had anything to do with it - I have eaten many M. rhacodes from beneath laurel.

It was also near a Leylandii, but who knows what the problem's source was!


M. procera looks very similar, but M. rhacodes (allegedly) is poisonous to a small proportion of humanity.

I definitely identified it as M. rhacodes not M. procera,
but I can't remember why.


I can eat the yellow-staining mushrooms with no ill effect - but I leave them alone, as I have some evidence that their effect can be cumulative.

Talking of which, if you are using an old guide (or one written by Lange), Paxillus involutus (brown roll-rim) is cumulatively deadly.

Conclusion: wild food is indeed wild.

Especially when you've just shot it.

I thought that made them livid, or is that only Gorilla gorilla?

RustyHinge wrote:
On 23/05/13 09:56, Tom Gardner wrote:
Pam Moore wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 17:02:14 +0200, Granity
wrote:


Nice set of pictures here

'10 poisonous mushrooms to watch out for in Britain - Telegraph'
(http://tinyurl.com/cb6wzlr)

Useful site, good pictures. Thank you.

A much more useful site is
http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/

The photos are good (multiple specimens, cross sections etc),
he has good identification tools, clearly identifies poisonous
species and has good general advice.

However:
- his photos in his books are better; they are the
default standard for amateur mycologists

- it is unwise to rely on any single source of photos,
pen portraits, keys etc

Not got the bandwidth here (GPRS dongle) to go looking at websites - I take it that's Roger Phillips?

Yup. It is a very sensible intro to his books: the pictures are
large enough to be useful but small enough that they make you
want to get the book! It also has info not in the books.


Back in the '70s the curator of the Dept. of Mycology in the British Museum of Natural History advised be to get Roger Phillips' 'Mushrooma and Other Fungi of Great Britain and Europe'

I still use it a lot.

Mine is the 1981 Pan edition, text copyright Phillips 1981,
no mention of other printings. I strongly suspect it is a
first edition of the Pan paperback, since ISTR remember getting
it as soon as it appeared

I'll normally take Philips plus one or two others when I go foraging.

On 23/05/13 13:12, Adam Funk wrote:

Are any of the non-deadly poisonous ones things that anyone would
actually want to eat, though? (For taste, I mean --- hallucinogenic
ones are of course a different kettle of fish.) AIUI, mushrooms are
generally divided into (1) tasty & safe, (2) dangerous, & (3) neither
--- with the majority falling in the 3rd group.

Yes - myriad.

Amanita rubescens is to die for - but be careful: many in the genus are
to die *of*.

The girolle, Cantharellus cibarius - erroneously called chanterelle in
most of the English-speaking world.

Cantharellus tubiformis/C. infundibuloformis - chanterelle and grey
chanterelle.

Horn of plenty, Craterellus mumblemumble... oh yes C. cornucopioides

Hydnum rapandum- the hedgehog.

Most of the oyster mushrooms.

Lepista saeva, blewits, blue-legs, blue stalks; L. nuda, wood blewits;
L.sordida.

St George's mushroom, Tricholoma gambosum.

Lactarius velomus, L. deliciosus.

Macrolepiota procera, parasolmushroom, but be cautious with M. rhacodes,
shaggy parasol.

'Cauliflower fungus', Sperassis crispa.

Verpa conica.

Morchella, all species.

Fistulina hepatica, beefsteak fungus.

Clitopilus prunulus, the miller, but it can be confused with Clitocybe
dealbata, which could spell the end of your enjoyment of any mushrooms,
so be careful with this one.

Coprinus comatus, shaggy ink cap, lawyer's wig

Merasmius oreades, fairy ring champignon - useful, as it dries, and
rehydrates like new.

Armillaria mellea, honey fungus, pickles well, otherwise falls into the
third group.

Lycoperdon species and Calvatia species. Giant puffballs may be sliced
to the thickness of a goodly slice of bread and fried. (Try butter!) To
make it into a real treat, fry the slices in butter, whip them out of
the pan when they are good and brown, then dip them in batter and sling
them back into the pan...

http://www.girolle.co.uk/recipes/

--
Rusty Hinge

On 23/05/13 13:23, wrote:
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:

Are any of the non-deadly poisonous ones things that anyone would
actually want to eat, though? (For taste, I mean --- hallucinogenic
ones are of course a different kettle of fish.) AIUI, mushrooms are
generally divided into (1) tasty & safe, (2) dangerous, & (3) neither
--- with the majority falling in the 3rd group.

Yes, and you are correct. I once ate Boletus felleus (don't ask),
and I had minor diarrhoea but two other people had no effect;
the point there is that more of the boleti taste good than are
advisable to eat. Tom Gardner's remarks are also relevant to
this.

B.felleus is bitter as hell and one bite would be enough.

The critical point is that you need to be absolutely sure that
you don't eat a lethal one by mistake, because lethal means just
that - and, if they don't kill you, you may need a liver
transplant to survive. But there aren't all that many of those,
and there are a lot that are excellent and very easy to separate
from anything lethal.

And some which beat your shop-bought mushroom into a cocked frying-pan.


--
Rusty Hinge

On 25/05/13 11:51, Granity wrote:
'Adam Funk[_3_ Wrote:
;983913']On 2013-05-23, wrote:
-
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:-

Are any of the non-deadly poisonous ones things that anyone would
actually want to eat, though? (For taste, I mean --- hallucinogenic
ones are of course a different kettle of fish.) AIUI, mushrooms are
generally divided into (1) tasty & safe, (2) dangerous, & (3) neither
--- with the majority falling in the 3rd group.-

Yes, and you are correct. I once ate Boletus felleus (don't ask),
and I had minor diarrhoea but two other people had no effect;
the point there is that more of the boleti taste good than are
advisable to eat. Tom Gardner's remarks are also relevant to
this.-

Well, my 3-way division above was NOT correct then, since are tasty &
(at least somewhat) dangerous ones.

-
The critical point is that you need to be absolutely sure that
you don't eat a lethal one by mistake, because lethal means just
that - and, if they don't kill you, you may need a liver
transplant to survive. But there aren't all that many of those,
and there are a lot that are excellent and very easy to separate
from anything lethal.-

Right.

As an expert said on the tele the other night: "All mushrooms are
edible, it's just that some will prevent you from ever eating them
twice." This was after a discussion on poisonous Fungi, so it was in
context.

My website says something like: You can eat all mushrooms, but some of
them you can only eat once.

--
Rusty Hinge