After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to start
frantically digging and planting last year when we took the allotment on,
we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks, grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is clean
out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for the seeds to
start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant without
constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are popping up
again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind for
it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is growing
actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in the
first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by the
beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting for
the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to us.

Cheers

Dave R

"David.WE.Roberts" wrote in
:

After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to
start frantically digging and planting last year when we took the
allotment on, we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks,
grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is
clean out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for
the seeds to start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant
without constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are
popping up again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind
for it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is
growing actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in
the first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by
the beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting
for the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end
of November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet
so the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good
to us.

Cheers

Dave R


First thing to say is that you will never get rid of perennial weeds.
Some seeds can be dormant for decades.

The things you can plant and crop before November are peas, broad beans,
runner bans, Borlotti beans, tomatoes, courgettes, cucumbers, cabbages,
brussels sprouts, sweetcorn, carrots, swede, turnip, radish, lettuce
etc.etc.

The world is your lobster.
Baz

Chris Hogg wrote in
news
On Fri, 03 May 2013 11:24:13 GMT, Baz wrote:

"David.WE.Roberts" wrote in
:

After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to
start frantically digging and planting last year when we took the
allotment on, we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks,
grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is
clean out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for
the seeds to start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant
without constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are
popping up again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind
for it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is
growing actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in
the first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back
by
the beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting
for the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end
of November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet
so the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good
to us.

Cheers

Dave R


First thing to say is that you will never get rid of perennial weeds.
Some seeds can be dormant for decades.

One year's seeds, seven years weeds.


Well, at least seven years then.
Baz

On 03/05/2013 11:02, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to start
frantically digging and planting last year when we took the allotment on,
we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks, grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is clean
out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for the seeds to
start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant without
constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are popping up
again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind for
it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is growing
actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in the
first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by the
beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting for
the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to us.

Cheers

Dave R

I wouldn't use Glyphosate (Round-up) more than once in a season.
After hitting your weed crop go ahead and dig about 3 weeks after
spraying, then when you get a flush of weed seedlings, either hoe or if
you must spray then use something like Weedol which is a contact killer
and you can go ahead and plant a day or two later.
I find that spraying in the evening gives better results as the spray
doesn't fry so fast and seems to get into the plants better, also the
wind tends to drop in the evening.
If you do have any lurking perennial weeds then either spot treat them
or better dig them out by hand.
David @ the end of Swansea Bay where sunshine is already becoming a memory

"David Hill" wrote...

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to start
frantically digging and planting last year when we took the allotment on,
we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks, grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is
clean
out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for the seeds
to
start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant without
constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are popping up
again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind for
it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is growing
actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in the
first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by the
beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting for
the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to us.

Cheers

Dave R

I wouldn't use Glyphosate (Round-up) more than once in a season.
After hitting your weed crop go ahead and dig about 3 weeks after spraying,
then when you get a flush of weed seedlings, either hoe or if you must
spray then use something like Weedol which is a contact killer and you can
go ahead and plant a day or two later.
I find that spraying in the evening gives better results as the spray
doesn't fry so fast and seems to get into the plants better, also the wind
tends to drop in the evening.
If you do have any lurking perennial weeds then either spot treat them or
better dig them out by hand.

I agree, hit them once and then in three weeks they will be totally dead
including the roots so you can dig certain that the old weeds are dead. Like
David I'm not sure you need to re-apply glyphosate on seedlings, they are
what a decent hoe is for. I use mine for the first ten minutes of every
visit to the plot to clear any newly emerged weeds and any I've missed last
time.
Something like the Wolf Garten Push Pull weeder (the smaller of the two)
with a handle to suit your height.

http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...ll-weeder-10cm

Used correctly, back and forth, it's self sharpening too and is used both at
the RHS Wisley and at Kew Gardens.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Fri, 03 May 2013 11:24:13 +0000, Baz wrote:

"David.WE.Roberts" wrote in
:

After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to
start frantically digging and planting last year when we took the
allotment on, we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks,
grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is
clean out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for the
seeds to start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant
without constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are
popping up again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind
for it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is
growing actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in
the first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by
the beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting for
the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to
us.

Cheers

Dave R


First thing to say is that you will never get rid of perennial weeds.
Some seeds can be dormant for decades.

The things you can plant and crop before November are peas, broad beans,
runner bans, Borlotti beans, tomatoes, courgettes, cucumbers, cabbages,
brussels sprouts, sweetcorn, carrots, swede, turnip, radish, lettuce
etc.etc.

The world is your lobster.
Baz

Really just checking what was too late to plant mid way through the season.

Some things like tomatoes wouldn't really have enough time to get
producing before the blight comes in and wipes them out.

I think courgettes and cucumbers wouldn't get into production when planted
mid June, unless they were pretty big already.

My thoughts at the moment are cabbages, leeks and brussels for the spring.

Yes, short term crops like lettuce would be O.K. although they seem to
need an awful lot of watering to get established on our windy allotments
where the surface dries out very quickly.

Cheers

Dave R

On Fri, 03 May 2013 17:13:34 +0100, David Hill wrote:

On 03/05/2013 11:02, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to
start frantically digging and planting last year when we took the
allotment on, we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks,
grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is
clean out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for the
seeds to start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant
without constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are
popping up again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind
for it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is
growing actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in
the first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by
the beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting for
the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to
us.

Cheers

Dave R

I wouldn't use Glyphosate (Round-up) more than once in a season.
After hitting your weed crop go ahead and dig about 3 weeks after
spraying, then when you get a flush of weed seedlings, either hoe or if
you must spray then use something like Weedol which is a contact killer
and you can go ahead and plant a day or two later.
I find that spraying in the evening gives better results as the spray
doesn't fry so fast and seems to get into the plants better, also the
wind tends to drop in the evening.
If you do have any lurking perennial weeds then either spot treat them
or better dig them out by hand.
David @ the end of Swansea Bay where sunshine is already becoming a
memory

Interesting stuff.

The second spraying was intended to get all the weeds which had escaped
the first spraying (because you are never sure you have got everything).

In theory there should be perhaps 10%-15% of perennial weeds which escaped
the first spraying.

After that, Weedol seems a very good idea.
Wikipedia (the ultimate source) suggests that alternating Glyphosphate and
Paraquat is a very effective way of controlling weeds.

I plan to spray first thing in the morning or last thing in the evening
when the winds are more likely to be slight.

Still trying to work out the effective difference in action between
Glyphosphate and Paraquat - both seem to be contact weed killers which
degrade on contact with the soil and mess with the plant's ability to grow
and synthesise.

Cheers

Dave R

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"David Hill" wrote...

David.WE.Roberts wrote:

snippy

Something like the Wolf Garten Push Pull weeder (the smaller of the two)
with a handle to suit your height.

http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...ll-weeder-10cm

Used correctly, back and forth, it's self sharpening too and is used both
at the RHS Wisley and at Kew Gardens.

Nice looking tool. However, handles are only 2cm different. Tool and handle
£26......bit pricy?
--
Pete C

On 03/05/2013 20:52, Pete C wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"David Hill" wrote...

David.WE.Roberts wrote:

snippy

Something like the Wolf Garten Push Pull weeder (the smaller of the two)
with a handle to suit your height.

http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...ll-weeder-10cm

Used correctly, back and forth, it's self sharpening too and is used both
at the RHS Wisley and at Kew Gardens.

Nice looking tool. However, handles are only 2cm different. Tool and handle
£26......bit pricy?


I like my stirrup hoe http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/3751
There is some dispute about what is a stirrup hoe I go for the
oscillating form
https://www.quickcrop.co.uk/product/...ng-stirrup-hoe
You can get a ridged form on E bay sizes vary but6 inch is good
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stirrup-ho...0#ht_403wt_959

"Pete C" wrote
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
"David Hill" wrote...

David.WE.Roberts wrote:

snippy

Something like the Wolf Garten Push Pull weeder (the smaller of the two)
with a handle to suit your height.

http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...ll-weeder-10cm

Used correctly, back and forth, it's self sharpening too and is used both
at the RHS Wisley and at Kew Gardens.

Nice looking tool. However, handles are only 2cm different. Tool and handle
£26......bit pricy?


Don't think so Pete, check out the full range....
http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...-tools/handles

--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 03/05/2013 20:44, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Fri, 03 May 2013 17:13:34 +0100, David Hill wrote:

On 03/05/2013 11:02, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to
start frantically digging and planting last year when we took the
allotment on, we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks,
grass and nettles.

This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is
clean out all the weeds using Glyphosphate and wait long enough for the
seeds to start germinating again and zap them a second time.

Hopefully this will then give me the chance to dig over and plant
without constantly back tracking to attack the perennials which are
popping up again.

First spraying day today - that is first day with little enough wind
for it to be safe to spray, and also warm enough that everything is
growing actively.

If I treat again in a week or so when I can see the bits I missed in
the first pass, I could have the majority of the weeds knocked back by
the beginning of June.

At that point I could start digging over and raking out and waiting for
the next rush of germination.

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.

So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?

Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to
us.

Cheers

Dave R

I wouldn't use Glyphosate (Round-up) more than once in a season.
After hitting your weed crop go ahead and dig about 3 weeks after
spraying, then when you get a flush of weed seedlings, either hoe or if
you must spray then use something like Weedol which is a contact killer
and you can go ahead and plant a day or two later.
I find that spraying in the evening gives better results as the spray
doesn't fry so fast and seems to get into the plants better, also the
wind tends to drop in the evening.
If you do have any lurking perennial weeds then either spot treat them
or better dig them out by hand.
David @ the end of Swansea Bay where sunshine is already becoming a
memory

Interesting stuff.

The second spraying was intended to get all the weeds which had escaped
the first spraying (because you are never sure you have got everything).

In theory there should be perhaps 10%-15% of perennial weeds which escaped
the first spraying.

After that, Weedol seems a very good idea.
Wikipedia (the ultimate source) suggests that alternating Glyphosphate and
Paraquat is a very effective way of controlling weeds.

I plan to spray first thing in the morning or last thing in the evening
when the winds are more likely to be slight.

Still trying to work out the effective difference in action between
Glyphosphate and Paraquat - both seem to be contact weed killers which
degrade on contact with the soil and mess with the plant's ability to grow
and synthesise.

Cheers

Dave R

Only problem is that Paraquat was withdrawn from the market around 3
years ago, now all you have is Diaquat, good on broad leaf weeds but
poor on grass so over time you can have a build up of grass, which is
why I have had to spray with Glyphos now to get on top of the grass, so
I have to wait for 3 weeks before cultivating .
Where as in the past with Paraquat (Gramoxon) I could have cultivated
the next day.

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Some things like tomatoes wouldn't really have enough time to get
producing before the blight comes in and wipes them out.

But tomatoes, aubergines, peppers, melons, courgettes, pumpkins,
sweetcorn, beans, squash, etc can all be pot-grown and then planted
out quite late in the season to catch up (IME).

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"Pete C" wrote
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
"David Hill" wrote...

David.WE.Roberts wrote:

snippy

Something like the Wolf Garten Push Pull weeder (the smaller of the two)
with a handle to suit your height.

http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...ll-weeder-10cm

Used correctly, back and forth, it's self sharpening too and is used
both at the RHS Wisley and at Kew Gardens.

Nice looking tool. However, handles are only 2cm different. Tool and
handle £26......bit pricy?


Don't think so Pete, check out the full range....
http://www.wolfgarten-tools.co.uk/mu...-tools/handles

Thanks for that Bob. They need to get their web site organised. Actualy, I
prefer a longer handle so I can hoe a 4ft bed from one side. Like I said,
pricey, but I'll give them some thought.
--
Pete C

On Friday, May 3, 2013 11:02:21 AM UTC+1, David.WE.Roberts wrote:

After being pressured by a couple of old timers on the allotment to start
frantically digging and planting last year when we took the allotment on,
we still have loads of perennial weeds, mainly docks, grass and nettles.
This year I am going to do what I intended to do last year - that is clean

So probably no chance of planting anything out until mid June.
So - what can I think about planting out then to crop before the end of
November or after the end of January?
Regrettably not potatoes - I am on a permanent low carbohydrate diet so
the main crop used for bringing land back in production is no good to us.
Cheers
Dave R

Cant you plant right away with cardboard?


NT

On Fri, 03 May 2013 21:33:25 +0000, vicky wrote:

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Some things like tomatoes wouldn't really have enough time to get
producing before the blight comes in and wipes them out.

But tomatoes, aubergines, peppers, melons, courgettes, pumpkins,
sweetcorn, beans, squash, etc can all be pot-grown and then planted out
quite late in the season to catch up (IME).

Thanks.

Certainly worth a try if the weather and plot look good.

I was considering growing a lot of leeks from seed so that they could
become established this year, and then harvest them first quarter next
year.

Likewise cabbage and perhaps some brussels.

Cheers

Dave R