I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK
but the phone was dead.
Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without a
home visit, so I still don't know how half the line was working and the
other half dead.
David @ the wet and windy end of Swansea Bay

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK but
the phone was dead.
Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without a
home visit, so I still don't know how half the line was working and the
other half dead.
David @ the wet and windy end of Swansea Bay

Thanks for letting us Know David.

All I know is what the BT Engineer told me when he came to sort my Wifi out,
and that is that the Broadband is superimposed as a carrier wave on the pair
of cables, (or something) BUT, if there is a fault on the cables
................................. ?

Mike


--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:12:47 +0000, David Hill wrote:

I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK
but the phone was dead.

A "phone line" uses a single pair of wires from your property to the
exchange.

For the phone to work there needs to be a DC path up one wire and down
the other, this is for on/off hook signalling, pulse dialling and power
to the phone.

The ADSL signal is an RF signal using lots of individual carriers space
about every 4kHz from about 30kHz up to 1.1MHz (up to 8Mbps servive) or
2.2MHz for the up to 20Mbps service.

If there is a small break in one or even both wires the lack of DC path
stops the phone working but the RF ADSL signal can jump across the break
and continue working, though it may well be degraded.

Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without
a home visit,

Presumably you told faults that the broadband was still working and the
phone not. If this information was passed to the engineer all they would
have to do would be to find you pair in the exchange, attach their
time-domain reflectometer (TDR) and measure how far away the break in the
cable is. He'll know the physical cable routes and location of junction
boxes and given the distance will know which one to visit to fix the
fault. Presumably they rang you up to check the line was back working...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer

--
Cheers
Dave.

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK but
the phone was dead.
Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without a
home visit, so I still don't know how half the line was working and the
other half dead.

Strange! I am pleased all is working now, it must be a relief
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:12:47 +0000, David Hill wrote:

I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK
but the phone was dead.

A "phone line" uses a single pair of wires from your property to the
exchange.

For the phone to work there needs to be a DC path up one wire and down
the other, this is for on/off hook signalling, pulse dialling and power
to the phone.

The ADSL signal is an RF signal using lots of individual carriers space
about every 4kHz from about 30kHz up to 1.1MHz (up to 8Mbps servive) or
2.2MHz for the up to 20Mbps service.

If there is a small break in one or even both wires the lack of DC path
stops the phone working but the RF ADSL signal can jump across the break
and continue working, though it may well be degraded.

Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without
a home visit,

Presumably you told faults that the broadband was still working and the
phone not. If this information was passed to the engineer all they would
have to do would be to find you pair in the exchange, attach their
time-domain reflectometer (TDR) and measure how far away the break in the
cable is. He'll know the physical cable routes and location of junction
boxes and given the distance will know which one to visit to fix the
fault. Presumably they rang you up to check the line was back working...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave that was a brilliant explanation and it sounds to me as if you are a BT
Engineer. Any relation to a Bill Liquorice I worked with on the then GPO in
Leicester in the 60's?

Mike

--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 12:16:42 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Still took them nearly a fortnight which was a useless response time.

That is bad, even for residential service. You should be inline for some
(paltary) compensation *unless* you took the option to have calls to your
land line diverted for free.

Business lines should have an engineer looking at the fault "by end of
next working day".

You can add various "care" packages to that, "Total Care" gets the fault
diagnosed and fixed within 24hrs and is only £10.50 + VAT/qtr...

http://www.bt.com/pricing/current/Ma...201_d0e107.htm

"Critcal Care" (£15/qtr + VAT) is fault fixed withing 6 hours, 24/7
365/days year:

http://www.bt.com/pricing/current/Ma...rkImpl562428.h
tm

"fixed" is a target after which you may be entitled to compensation but
this normally involves providing evidence of actual losses incurred due
to the fault.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 12:36:45 -0000, Mike wrote:

Dave that was a brilliant explanation and it sounds to me as if you are
a BT Engineer.

No a Broadcast Engineer working in sound, so years ago would be
connecting lines to BT blocks for programme and communications on live
outside broadcasts. These days it's either fibre (BT turn up with their
own van to interface between the truck and the fibre) or satellite. I
also have a curious mind and like to know how things work, at least at a
basic level.

Any relation to a Bill Liquorice I worked with on the then GPO in
Leicester in the 60's?

Not that I know of. My late father was the Leading Draughtsman at the
GPO/BT factory Fordrough(sp?) Lane in Birmingham until he retired in the
late 80's.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 12:36:45 -0000, Mike wrote:

Dave that was a brilliant explanation and it sounds to me as if you are
a BT Engineer.

No a Broadcast Engineer working in sound, so years ago would be
connecting lines to BT blocks for programme and communications on live
outside broadcasts. These days it's either fibre (BT turn up with their
own van to interface between the truck and the fibre) or satellite. I
also have a curious mind and like to know how things work, at least at a
basic level.

Well you've taught me quite a bit thanks :-)

I was on domestic and industrial systems, then went into the GPO Engineering
Schools teaching Engineers on all the same internal systems and on
maintenance as well. But the 60's telephone and system was a bit different,
all relays etc.

Any ex GPO Engineers out there remember the House Exchange No 4 System? ;-(


Any relation to a Bill Liquorice I worked with on the then GPO in
Leicester in the 60's?

Not that I know of. My late father was the Leading Draughtsman at the
GPO/BT factory Fordrough(sp?) Lane in Birmingham until he retired in the
late 80's.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Thanks Dave. Might have been ;-)

Mike


--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK but
the phone was dead.
Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without a
home visit, so I still don't know how half the line was working and the
other half dead.
David @ the wet and windy end of Swansea Bay

Just be glad it didn't cost you. I had a fault on my phone and because it
was nearly new I was confident it would not be my handset. To be fair they
did warn me that if it wasn't them it would cost me £125 to come out. It
wasn't them and it cost me £125. I jumped on my nearly new phone and then
put it in the bin.
It was a BT phone with answering machine.
It became an ex-phone.

"Christina Websell" wrote in
:


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK
but the phone was dead.
Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it
without a home visit, so I still don't know how half the line was
working and the other half dead.
David @ the wet and windy end of Swansea Bay

Just be glad it didn't cost you. I had a fault on my phone and
because it was nearly new I was confident it would not be my handset.
To be fair they did warn me that if it wasn't them it would cost me
£125 to come out. It wasn't them and it cost me £125. I jumped on my
nearly new phone and then put it in the bin.
It was a BT phone with answering machine.
It became an ex-phone.





Years ago I ditched BT and switched to NTL, later to become Virginmedia.
They are not perfect, but the telephone and broadband are almost faultless,
its the customer services I don't like very much on the rare occasion I
have needed them over the last 13 years. I have never been charged any
money for anything other than the monthly, which is £41.26 for TV,
broadband(20mb) and telephone (calls to mobiles 250 mins/month)

Hope thats helpful
Baz

On 30/12/2012 12:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:12:47 +0000, David Hill wrote:

I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK
but the phone was dead.

A "phone line" uses a single pair of wires from your property to the
exchange.

For the phone to work there needs to be a DC path up one wire and down
the other, this is for on/off hook signalling, pulse dialling and power
to the phone.

The ADSL signal is an RF signal using lots of individual carriers space
about every 4kHz from about 30kHz up to 1.1MHz (up to 8Mbps servive) or
2.2MHz for the up to 20Mbps service.

If there is a small break in one or even both wires the lack of DC path
stops the phone working but the RF ADSL signal can jump across the break
and continue working, though it may well be degraded.

Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it without
a home visit,

Presumably you told faults that the broadband was still working and the
phone not. If this information was passed to the engineer all they would
have to do would be to find you pair in the exchange, attach their
time-domain reflectometer (TDR) and measure how far away the break in the
cable is. He'll know the physical cable routes and location of junction
boxes and given the distance will know which one to visit to fix the
fault. Presumably they rang you up to check the line was back working...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer

Why "Not" OT?

Three years ago I lost broadband, although still had the phone working
ok. Openreach came round and before they examined anything said it was
an inside problem - almost certainly the modem or internal extension
lead. Keeping my cool, I asked them how, if it was the modem, how come
the same fault applied to the two different types and makes of
modem/router I had? And if it was the extension lead, how come the
fault was still there if I used the internal socket of the NTL5 (I used
"NTL5" rather than "Master" socket). They kept quiet after that and
replaced the NTL5, eventually getting the broadband signal back after
quite a bit of fiddling with the wires.

Less than a week later I lost the phone (but the broadband still worked.
They came round again after running tests at the exchange and this
time concluded it was a line fault. Calls were diverted to my mobile
for 10 days before they sent someone to dig up 10 metres of pavement and
a trench in my front garden to replace and reroute the cable.

In doing so, he had to cut through the roots of a couple of large
shrubs, one being a ceanothus which, when it snowed a couple of weeks
later, fell over due to the weight of snow on it and having a
"one-sided" root system! That's why it's not "OT"!

--

Jeff

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in
:


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I posted about the problem I had with my phone over Xmas, internet OK
but the phone was dead.
Well BT found a line fault away from the property and fixed it
without a home visit, so I still don't know how half the line was
working and the other half dead.
David @ the wet and windy end of Swansea Bay

Just be glad it didn't cost you. I had a fault on my phone and
because it was nearly new I was confident it would not be my handset.
To be fair they did warn me that if it wasn't them it would cost me
£125 to come out. It wasn't them and it cost me £125. I jumped on my
nearly new phone and then put it in the bin.
It was a BT phone with answering machine.
It became an ex-phone.





Years ago I ditched BT and switched to NTL, later to become Virginmedia.
They are not perfect, but the telephone and broadband are almost
faultless,
its the customer services I don't like very much on the rare occasion I
have needed them over the last 13 years. I have never been charged any
money for anything other than the monthly, which is £41.26 for TV,
broadband(20mb) and telephone (calls to mobiles 250 mins/month)

Hope thats helpful
Baz

That's way above. My TV is free except for the license, and my cousin pays
for my broadband as a permanent birthday present. I'm traditional. BT do my
phone, I get my gas from British Gas etc. I cannot be bothered about
switching to get the best deals and then switching back to find another.
I would not dream of paying £41.26 month although I know Virgin Media
provide a whole lot of more TV channels.
My aunt has it but she doesn't like not to have the 1471 to find out who
just called if she missed it.

"Christina Websell" wrote in
:





Years ago I ditched BT and switched to NTL, later to become
Virginmedia. They are not perfect, but the telephone and broadband
are almost faultless,
its the customer services I don't like very much on the rare occasion
I have needed them over the last 13 years. I have never been charged
any money for anything other than the monthly, which is £41.26 for
TV, broadband(20mb) and telephone (calls to mobiles 250 mins/month)

Hope thats helpful
Baz

That's way above. My TV is free except for the license, and my cousin
pays for my broadband as a permanent birthday present. I'm
traditional. BT do my phone, I get my gas from British Gas etc. I
cannot be bothered about switching to get the best deals and then
switching back to find another. I would not dream of paying £41.26
month although I know Virgin Media provide a whole lot of more TV
channels. My aunt has it but she doesn't like not to have the 1471 to
find out who just called if she missed it.



I thought our package wae very reasonable indeed. Well we like it.
Could your aunt's telephone be faulty? 1471 should work. You could plug
another phone in to test if it is annoying. I know I like to have 1471.

Happy New Year.
Baz

On 01/01/2013 15:00, The Real Baz wrote:
I thought our package wae very reasonable indeed. Well we like it.
Could your aunt's telephone be faulty? 1471 should work. You could plug
another phone in to test if it is annoying. I know I like to have 1471.


1471 should work on all phones. What you pay for via BT is caller
display and a list of the last 50 callers etc. That's usually in a
package with the service that lets you bounce your phone calls to
another number temporarily.

On Tue, 01 Jan 2013 15:48:11 +0000, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

On 01/01/2013 15:00, The Real Baz wrote:
I thought our package wae very reasonable indeed. Well we like it.
Could your aunt's telephone be faulty? 1471 should work. You could plug
another phone in to test if it is annoying. I know I like to have 1471.


1471 should work on all phones. What you pay for via BT is caller
display and a list of the last 50 callers etc. That's usually in a
package with the service that lets you bounce your phone calls to
another number temporarily.

You don't have to pay BT for caller display. Just sign up with BT
Privacy at Home (free) and as long as you make just 2 calls a month,
caller display is free.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.