In article , writes
It's likely to be a bit beyond most local suppliers, so the easiest
way would be to try and contact the networking people at some
local organisation


Surely not Nick

Charlie just has to get a Devolo lan set. i got one last week, albeit
with wires on but you can pay more for the wireless ones.
You plug one end into the router, and the plug into the wall. Then you
take the other plug and wire and plug that into a socket and the back of
your TV or laptop etc. It's using the electric circuits to channel the
signal.
The wireless version just plugs in behind the router and into the wall
and the other one goes wherever you like in the house.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article op.wo87wytygkcl5l@home1, RG wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:21:26 -0000, wrote:
In article ,
Emery Davis wrote:

It's likely to be a bit beyond most local suppliers, so the easiest
way would be to try and contact the networking people at some
local organisation (e.g. university, some of the largest schools)
and pay them for a little outside work.

It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes for someone who knows what
they're about.

That will depend on how the house connection has been set up by
the broadband provider and/or primary modem, which is why I was
being a bit cautious. In particular, if you want to use TWO
devices using the same wireless point, things are likely to get
'interesting'. While I could almost certainly do that eventually,
it might cause me quite a lot of trouble.

Depends what you mean by 'two devices'

If you mean two PCs, phones etc using the same wireless point (router
channel), then no problem at all. They will share the available bandwidth.
In this house we have two PC's, two phones and an pad all sharing a WAP.

That's easy, and not relevant. The point is that the kitchen wireless
router is attached to a single port on the office router, which then
talks to the outside world. If you have two devices on the kitchen
router, you will have two Internet addresses that then filter through
a single one. Depending on the details of the setup, this may or may
not be possible. Indeed, there might be problems even if the kitchen
router assigns Internet addresses to the wireless devices used in the
kitchen.

I last did serious network administration before VLANs became a
mainstream technology, but they are a (non-trivial) solution. It
should be easy with the RIGHT combination of devices and setup without
VLANs, but could be impossible with some combinations. It will depend
a great deal on the office router's attitude to packet filtering and
default routing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:05:02 -0000, wrote:

In article op.wo87wytygkcl5l@home1, RG wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:21:26 -0000, wrote:
In article ,
Emery Davis wrote:

It's likely to be a bit beyond most local suppliers, so the easiest
way would be to try and contact the networking people at some
local organisation (e.g. university, some of the largest schools)
and pay them for a little outside work.

It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes for someone who knows what
they're about.

That will depend on how the house connection has been set up by
the broadband provider and/or primary modem, which is why I was
being a bit cautious. In particular, if you want to use TWO
devices using the same wireless point, things are likely to get
'interesting'. While I could almost certainly do that eventually,
it might cause me quite a lot of trouble.

Depends what you mean by 'two devices'

If you mean two PCs, phones etc using the same wireless point (router
channel), then no problem at all. They will share the available
bandwidth.
In this house we have two PC's, two phones and an pad all sharing a WAP.

That's easy, and not relevant. The point is that the kitchen wireless
router is attached to a single port on the office router, which then
talks to the outside world. If you have two devices on the kitchen
router, you will have two Internet addresses that then filter through
a single one. Depending on the details of the setup, this may or may
not be possible. Indeed, there might be problems even if the kitchen
router assigns Internet addresses to the wireless devices used in the
kitchen.

I last did serious network administration before VLANs became a
mainstream technology, but they are a (non-trivial) solution. It
should be easy with the RIGHT combination of devices and setup without
VLANs, but could be impossible with some combinations. It will depend
a great deal on the office router's attitude to packet filtering and
default routing.


It doesn't need to be that difficult Nick.
Provided the DHCP settings are correct, the main router will assign local
addresses for all devices on the network, even those connected to the
second router.
We actually do this here - to provide good WiFi coverage on two floors and
in the garden, the main router and its WiFi serves one area, and a cable
feeds to a second WiFi router that extends the radio coverage.
All IP addresses are assigned dynamically by the cable modem/router.

As I understand Charlie's requirement, it is exactly the same.

In article op.wo9ej5k3gkcl5l@home1, RG wrote:

It doesn't need to be that difficult Nick.

I am sorry, but I described the situation, and not a solution.

Provided the DHCP settings are correct, the main router will assign local
addresses for all devices on the network, even those connected to the
second router.

And what if the office router insists on a single Ethernet wire having
a single Internet address?

With luck, everything will Just Work. But I am FAR too experienced
to trust anything that is beyond the mainstream requirement without
checking that precise configuration myself - and that means the precise
combination of routers and configurations. Sorry, but modern software
really is that iffy.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:38:23 -0000, wrote:

In article op.wo9ej5k3gkcl5l@home1, RG wrote:

It doesn't need to be that difficult Nick.

I am sorry, but I described the situation, and not a solution.

Provided the DHCP settings are correct, the main router will assign
local
addresses for all devices on the network, even those connected to the
second router.

And what if the office router insists on a single Ethernet wire having
a single Internet address?


I have not found a modern one that does.

My current collection of routers includes:

Virgin 'Superhub' (Netgear)
Netgear DG834GT
Alcatel SpeedTouch 580
Linksys WAG354
Belkin F5D8236
Cisco WAP4410

And all of these will correctly assign multiple local addresses in any
combination of direct connection, through a remote switch and remote WiFi
server.

We also have two CCTV recorders connected by cable through a 6-way switch
into the main modem.


With luck, everything will Just Work. But I am FAR too experienced
to trust anything that is beyond the mainstream requirement without
checking that precise configuration myself - and that means the precise
combination of routers and configurations. Sorry, but modern software
really is that iffy.

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
In article , writes
It's likely to be a bit beyond most local suppliers, so the easiest
way would be to try and contact the networking people at some
local organisation


Surely not Nick

Charlie just has to get a Devolo lan set. i got one last week, albeit with
wires on but you can pay more for the wireless ones.
You plug one end into the router, and the plug into the wall. Then you
take the other plug and wire and plug that into a socket and the back of
your TV or laptop etc. It's using the electric circuits to channel the
signal.
The wireless version just plugs in behind the router and into the wall and
the other one goes wherever you like in the house.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Would that this house was that simple! I am aware of these, I think Mike
suggested them in the first place but I am not convinced it would work here
as the Kitchen and house are not on a common system.

The discussion was starting to get a bit technical but it sounds as if some
readers have done what I am wanting to do


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:40:14 -0000, Mike wrote:

Might be a different fuse box, but if they are on the same phase then
it should work.

The HomePlug devices are designed to work best single ring main, they
*might* work with degraded performance between rings fed from the same
Consumer Unit. What happens if you try and get then to work between two
rings fed from different consumer units is starting to get doubtful.

The consumer units have fuses rather than circuit breakers it mighte be
better. Circuit breakers have coils inside that mess with the RF carrier
signals. And another reason for avoiding HomePlug things is the amount of
broadband RF they radiate from the wiring.

The OP just needs a wireless access point, I see e_Buyer have something
for £9.99:

http://www.ebuyer.com/169923-tenda-w...nt-router-exte
nder-w311r-

Don't know anything about it but seems to get good reviews.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:05:02 +0000 (GMT), wrote:

That's easy, and not relevant. The point is that the kitchen wireless
router is attached to a single port on the office router, which then
talks to the outside world. If you have two devices on the kitchen
router, you will have two Internet addresses that then filter through
a single one.

No the two devices in the kitchen Access Point will be given their own IP
individual address's by the DHCP server on that LAN segment. That server
will normally be in the ADSL modem/router. The AP will also obtain it's
IP address from the same DHCP server so you can connecct to it for
configuration etc.

Indeed, there might be problems even if the kitchen router assigns
Internet addresses to the wireless devices used in the kitchen.

Agreed, two DHCP servers in the same LAN segment are not good news.
Nothing brreaks as such but wierd things can happen that can change
depending on which address the device gets. The AP needs it's DHCP
*server* turning off.

It will depend a great deal on the office router's attitude to packet
filtering and default routing.

I think you are going to deep, this is domestic with unmanaged
switches/routers. Essentially you set the AP in bridge mode and it just
becomes a bit of ethernet cable (without the copper) from the ADSL/Modem
router to any device that succesfully connects to the wireless side.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:58:38 -0000, RG wrote:

And what if the office router insists on a single Ethernet wire having
a single Internet address?

I have not found a modern one that does.

Nor me the switches in domestic kit are unmanaged so there is no way to
lock down a given ethernet port to a given MAC address let alone a IP
one.

Managed switches as found in commercial enviroments are very different
kettle of fish.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Pridham" wrote in
:

I have a problem with wireless devices in the house due to extremely
thick stone walls, knowing this I laid a cable through to the kitchen
when doing work on that recently to give us broadband access in there
and that works fine if we use an Ethernet cable to connect.

Question; is there anything I can plug into that Ethernet switch box
which would give me a wireless signal at that end?

I can't use the gizmos that plug in at either end and use the house
wiring as the kitchen has a differrent circuit and indeed fuse box to
the rest of the house.

I know there would be dedicated groups out there but I have learnt to
trust some of the posters here (and I may not understand the answer on
a more techy site!)


Do you have a wireless router installed? If not I think you need one. A
godsend. Tricky to set up with passwords so nobody in your street can
access your connection. A local computer shop will reccommend a local tech
to do it for you. Probably cost £30-40.

Baz

Yes we have fiber optic broadband and a BT wireless router, but the signal
will only reach the room its in and the one above because of the walls, we
get no mobile phone signal either! Kitchen is some distance away and the
signal has to pass through 3 walls each 3' thick stone, hence running an
Ethernet cable.


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:40:14 -0000, Mike wrote:

Might be a different fuse box, but if they are on the same phase then
it should work.

The HomePlug devices are designed to work best single ring main, they
*might* work with degraded performance between rings fed from the same
Consumer Unit. What happens if you try and get then to work between two
rings fed from different consumer units is starting to get doubtful.

The consumer units have fuses rather than circuit breakers it mighte be
better. Circuit breakers have coils inside that mess with the RF carrier
signals. And another reason for avoiding HomePlug things is the amount of
broadband RF they radiate from the wiring.

The OP just needs a wireless access point, I see e_Buyer have something
for £9.99:

http://www.ebuyer.com/169923-tenda-w...nt-router-exte
nder-w311r-

Don't know anything about it but seems to get good reviews.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Can it really be that simple!! I hope so


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:03:55 -0000, Charlie Pridham wrote:

The OP just needs a wireless access point, I see e_Buyer have
something for £9.99:

http://www.ebuyer.com/169923-tenda-w...-access-point-
router-extender-w311r-

Don't know anything about it but seems to get good reviews.

Can it really be that simple!! I hope so

Just plug the AP in (power and your ethernet cable into the WAN port),
find its IP address, enter that into a web browser on computer on the
LAN, login with the defaults from the manual, change the login password
(don't forget it!), configure its SSID and wireless security settings,
check that its DHCP *server* is disabled and that should be it.

The hard bit is probably finding out what IP address the AP has been
allocated. I don't do windows so not sure what tools that has, looking in
the DHCP table of your router will probably give you enough to at least
guess it.

As to the device I found above I *really* do not know anything about it,
the price is what grabbed my eye.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Charlie Pridham" wrote


"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
In article , writes
It's likely to be a bit beyond most local suppliers, so the easiest
way would be to try and contact the networking people at some
local organisation


Surely not Nick

Charlie just has to get a Devolo lan set. i got one last week, albeit
with wires on but you can pay more for the wireless ones.
You plug one end into the router, and the plug into the wall. Then you
take the other plug and wire and plug that into a socket and the back of
your TV or laptop etc. It's using the electric circuits to channel the
signal.
The wireless version just plugs in behind the router and into the wall
and the other one goes wherever you like in the house.

Would that this house was that simple! I am aware of these, I think Mike
suggested them in the first place but I am not convinced it would work here
as the Kitchen and house are not on a common system.

The discussion was starting to get a bit technical but it sounds as if some
readers have done what I am wanting to do


Just spoken to a computer expert I know, who runs the servers for a large
international company, because I remember that he had the same problem after
his house was renovated and doubled in size. Turns out the builders used
some metal clad insulation in the walls which stopped the signals. Anyway he
used these plug in adapters and he tells me they even work in one part of
his house that is on a separate circuit. These would give you coverage
anywhere in your house not just the kitchen but they aren't cheap.
http://www.devolo.co.uk/consumer/82_...on_1.html?l=en

-- Regards
Bob Hobden
Posting to this Newsgroup
from the W.of London. UK

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:39:57 -0000, Bob Hobden wrote:

These would give you coverage anywhere in your house not just the
kitchen but they aren't cheap.

http://www.devolo.co.uk/consumer/82_...s_starter-kit_
product-presentation_1.html?l=en

Not WiFi though which is what Charlie asks about.

This is also an interesting statement:

"dLAN® 500 is faster than a network cable or Wireless LAN-for
future-proof networking throughout the home! 1"

"1 based on replacing all 100BASE-T Ethernet cabling by dLAN® 500"

So what about faster than "Wireless LAN", is that absolutely guranteed? I
doubt it as there are too many variables. Most if not all recent
computers with ethernet ports are Gigabit capable, all you need is a
Gigabit switch.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 13/12/2012 12:03, Baz wrote:
RG wrote in newsp.wo858ylfgkcl5l@home1:

Correction!

'
If that's correct then all you need to do is get a second wireless
router, sited in the KITCHEN and feed it with the extension cable.
'
'

That will work. Not exactly wireless.

It will extend the wireless coverage.

I have done similar here in a maisonette built around two reinforced
concrete spine walls. On a good day I get a /very/ weak signal from one
side to the other. I have a wireless enabled computer [1] on the other
side which runs Virtual Router Manager to extend my WiFi. I have it set
up with two different wireless networks, I have different SSIDs but the
same pre-shared key.

There will be no need to set up the second router for internet access
since it will use the first router for that. Just set up the wireless
network.

[1] Connected to the main router by powerline adapters, but could be
ethernet cable if I could be bothered to route it along a very
convoluted skirting board and architrave route.
--
Phil Cook