Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so wish to
insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio outside, but
adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken bricks
base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.
Bearing in mind the ground soil (and maybe these slabs? )are sometimes
warmer than the air temperature, should i *insulate* the pot from the patio
slabs when i wrap in bubble wrap; or keep the pot placed next to the paving
slabs, and just place the bubble wrap over plant and pot.

"jim west" wrote in
:

Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so
wish to insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio
outside, but adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken
bricks base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.
Bearing in mind the ground soil (and maybe these slabs? )are sometimes
warmer than the air temperature, should i *insulate* the pot from the
patio slabs when i wrap in bubble wrap; or keep the pot placed next to
the paving slabs, and just place the bubble wrap over plant and pot.



Does it need repotting?
I would keep it on the slabs(because they radiate heat) and put a fleece
around the pot and plant. I don't know if bubble wrap would be the choice.

Baz

On 28/11/2012 10:16, jim west wrote:
Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so wish to
insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio outside, but
adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken bricks
base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.
Bearing in mind the ground soil (and maybe these slabs? )are sometimes
warmer than the air temperature, should i *insulate* the pot from the patio
slabs when i wrap in bubble wrap; or keep the pot placed next to the paving
slabs, and just place the bubble wrap over plant and pot.



AFAIK the ground and slabs will tend to be colder than the air during
winter and warmer in summer. I would stand the pot on strips of
something (tiles?) to allow circulation of air under it

On Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:35:18 PM UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 28/11/2012 10:16, jim west wrote:

Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so wish to
insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio outside, but
adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken bricks
base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.
Bearing in mind the ground soil (and maybe these slabs? )are sometimes
warmer than the air temperature, should i *insulate* the pot from the patio
slabs when i wrap in bubble wrap; or keep the pot placed next to the paving
slabs, and just place the bubble wrap over plant and pot.

AFAIK the ground and slabs will tend to be colder than the air during
winter and warmer in summer. I would stand the pot on strips of
something (tiles?) to allow circulation of air under it

When outdoors gets down to freezing at night, the ground is warmer than the air. So fof frost protection leave it in contact with the ground.


NT

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:12:03 +0000, Sacha wrote:


Put bubble wrap round the pot but NOT round the plant. It can makes
things 'sweat' and then can stick to leaves or stems. Use
horticultural fleece draped over canes round and over the plant. Few
plants like to be wet at their roots all through a cold winter night,
so minimum watering and sharp drainage (lift the pot onto some bricks)
is a general rule of thumb.

Interesting. We used horticultural fleece covers last year for the
first time to protect some Alstroemeria and standard bays and this
year we have also put them over a couple of standard Solanum
rantonettii. This is probably a bit OTT as we rarely get any
significant frosts but I have not thought of raising the pots, a mix
of terracotta and fibreglass. We tend to incorporate good drainage
when planting containers, horticultural grit mixed with the JI and a
layer of crocks or large stones at the bottom. Is it still a sensible
precaution to raise the pots?

Also we have a five year old acer in a 50 cms cube terracotta planter
which, in previous years, we have,covered with bubble wrap (just the
planter) as it is in a relatively exposed location. Do we need to
carry on mollycoddling it or is it likely to be sufficiently
acclimatised by now to survive one of our average winters without
being wrapped up?
--
rbel

On 28/11/2012 17:59, rbel wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:12:03 +0000, wrote:


Put bubble wrap round the pot but NOT round the plant. It can makes
things 'sweat' and then can stick to leaves or stems. Use
horticultural fleece draped over canes round and over the plant. Few
plants like to be wet at their roots all through a cold winter night,
so minimum watering and sharp drainage (lift the pot onto some bricks)
is a general rule of thumb.


Interesting. We used horticultural fleece covers last year for the
first time to protect some Alstroemeria and standard bays and this
year we have also put them over a couple of standard Solanum
rantonettii. This is probably a bit OTT as we rarely get any
significant frosts but I have not thought of raising the pots, a mix
of terracotta and fibreglass. We tend to incorporate good drainage
when planting containers, horticultural grit mixed with the JI and a
layer of crocks or large stones at the bottom. Is it still a sensible
precaution to raise the pots?


I also improve drainage as I plant, but I still prefer to keep my pots
raised off paving and concrete areas. In persistent or heavy rain,
water collects on our patio, so I consider drainage essential. RG is in
the process of levelling and paving our patio (after *30* years of my
moaning!), to allow better run-off, but I may still allow for free
drainage during winter rains.


Also we have a five year old acer in a 50 cms cube terracotta planter
which, in previous years, we have,covered with bubble wrap (just the
planter) as it is in a relatively exposed location. Do we need to
carry on mollycoddling it or is it likely to be sufficiently
acclimatised by now to survive one of our average winters without
being wrapped up?
--
rbel

If your Acer is in a terracotta pot, you may still have to mollycoddle
the pot if you don't want to lose it. The Acer may very well be a
little hardier now, but I would still worry about this year's growth
since we didn't have much sun to ripen the wood. If the tree is not
hugely precious and/or you don't mind trimming off the dead twiggy ends
(I have to do this in most springs, anyway), you may get away without
extra protection. However, the fact that Acers are lower-storey
woodland trees which need some shelter, I am slightly concerned that
your tree is in a "relatively exposed" location.

Another thought is that your tree may be grafted. It ought to be a
solid graft by now, but I have known frosts and high winds to damage the
union between crown and rootstock. You may wish to take this into
consideration if the site is exposed. It took five years to get the
tree to its present condition. It will only to five minutes to save or
wreck its appearance. Somehow I think you will use that five mins
wisely. Good luck.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 11/29/2012 06:19 PM, Spider wrote:
Also we have a five year old acer in a 50 cms cube terracotta planter
which, in previous years, we have,covered with bubble wrap (just the
planter) as it is in a relatively exposed location. Do we need to
carry on mollycoddling it or is it likely to be sufficiently
acclimatised by now to survive one of our average winters without
being wrapped up?
--
rbel

If your Acer is in a terracotta pot, you may still have to mollycoddle
the pot if you don't want to lose it. The Acer may very well be a
little hardier now, but I would still worry about this year's growth
since we didn't have much sun to ripen the wood. If the tree is not
hugely precious and/or you don't mind trimming off the dead twiggy ends
(I have to do this in most springs, anyway), you may get away without
extra protection. However, the fact that Acers are lower-storey
woodland trees which need some shelter, I am slightly concerned that
your tree is in a "relatively exposed" location.

Another thought is that your tree may be grafted. It ought to be a
solid graft by now, but I have known frosts and high winds to damage the
union between crown and rootstock. You may wish to take this into
consideration if the site is exposed. It took five years to get the
tree to its present condition. It will only to five minutes to save or
wreck its appearance. Somehow I think you will use that five mins
wisely. Good luck.


To this very good advice I will add that if you're covering the Acer
with bubble wrap, and not just the pot, you're likely damaging it for
the reason Sacha mentioned. It's important to have free airflow around
the stems or bark problems are very likely.

Most Acers are reasonably tough, although it does depend on the
cultivar, so if it's had 5 years to get used to its "relatively exposed"
situation it will probably be OK.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:32:34 +0100, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 11/29/2012 06:19 PM, Spider wrote:

If your Acer is in a terracotta pot, you may still have to mollycoddle
the pot if you don't want to lose it. The Acer may very well be a
little hardier now, but I would still worry about this year's growth
since we didn't have much sun to ripen the wood. If the tree is not
hugely precious and/or you don't mind trimming off the dead twiggy ends
(I have to do this in most springs, anyway), you may get away without
extra protection. However, the fact that Acers are lower-storey
woodland trees which need some shelter, I am slightly concerned that
your tree is in a "relatively exposed" location.

Another thought is that your tree may be grafted. It ought to be a
solid graft by now, but I have known frosts and high winds to damage the
union between crown and rootstock. You may wish to take this into
consideration if the site is exposed. It took five years to get the
tree to its present condition. It will only to five minutes to save or
wreck its appearance. Somehow I think you will use that five mins
wisely. Good luck.


To this very good advice I will add that if you're covering the Acer
with bubble wrap, and not just the pot, you're likely damaging it for
the reason Sacha mentioned. It's important to have free airflow around
the stems or bark problems are very likely.

Most Acers are reasonably tough, although it does depend on the
cultivar, so if it's had 5 years to get used to its "relatively exposed"
situation it will probably be OK.

Many thanks Spider and Emery.

The Acer is a Sango Kaku (therefore probably somewhat tender) and is
not grafted.

In the past we have only covered the container with bubble wrap (not
the tree) as it is in a fairly exposed position. I would like to
locate it somewhere more sheltered but it is sited so that it is a
focal point on the frontage. Being less than a kilometre from the sea
in south Devon we rarely get any significant frosts but as we are atop
the highest ridge of hills in the area so we do get some interesting
gales.

I think that we will wrap the container again this year - I must think
of something that looks a bit better than bubblewrap!
--
rbel

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:35:18 PM UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 28/11/2012 10:16, jim west wrote:

Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so wish
to
insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio outside, but
adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken
bricks
base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.
Bearing in mind the ground soil (and maybe these slabs? )are sometimes
warmer than the air temperature, should i *insulate* the pot from the
patio
slabs when i wrap in bubble wrap; or keep the pot placed next to the
paving
slabs, and just place the bubble wrap over plant and pot.

AFAIK the ground and slabs will tend to be colder than the air during
winter and warmer in summer. I would stand the pot on strips of
something (tiles?) to allow circulation of air under it

When outdoors gets down to freezing at night, the ground is warmer than
the air. So fof frost protection leave it in contact with the ground.


NT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to all. Its the freezing weather that i'm most worried about. People
are advise to bury themselves in snow at night, so i'm guessing you are
right that the ground is indeed warmer than the air when its very cold,
which means keeping close to the patio slabs and the house.

Also i'm thinking that heat can rise out of fleece and that its main purpose
is to deflect the wind. So it seems a possibility to use bubble wrap to wrap
the pot and plant, but leave some opening at the top to avoid trapping
moisture?

On 30/11/2012 15:56, rbel wrote:
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:32:34 +0100, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 11/29/2012 06:19 PM, Spider wrote:

If your Acer is in a terracotta pot, you may still have to mollycoddle
the pot if you don't want to lose it. The Acer may very well be a
little hardier now, but I would still worry about this year's growth
since we didn't have much sun to ripen the wood. If the tree is not
hugely precious and/or you don't mind trimming off the dead twiggy ends
(I have to do this in most springs, anyway), you may get away without
extra protection. However, the fact that Acers are lower-storey
woodland trees which need some shelter, I am slightly concerned that
your tree is in a "relatively exposed" location.

Another thought is that your tree may be grafted. It ought to be a
solid graft by now, but I have known frosts and high winds to damage the
union between crown and rootstock. You may wish to take this into
consideration if the site is exposed. It took five years to get the
tree to its present condition. It will only to five minutes to save or
wreck its appearance. Somehow I think you will use that five mins
wisely. Good luck.


To this very good advice I will add that if you're covering the Acer
with bubble wrap, and not just the pot, you're likely damaging it for
the reason Sacha mentioned. It's important to have free airflow around
the stems or bark problems are very likely.

Most Acers are reasonably tough, although it does depend on the
cultivar, so if it's had 5 years to get used to its "relatively exposed"
situation it will probably be OK.

Many thanks Spider and Emery.

The Acer is a Sango Kaku (therefore probably somewhat tender) and is
not grafted.

In the past we have only covered the container with bubble wrap (not
the tree) as it is in a fairly exposed position. I would like to
locate it somewhere more sheltered but it is sited so that it is a
focal point on the frontage. Being less than a kilometre from the sea
in south Devon we rarely get any significant frosts but as we are atop
the highest ridge of hills in the area so we do get some interesting
gales.

I think that we will wrap the container again this year - I must think
of something that looks a bit better than bubblewrap!



Bubblewrap is fine, but why not use a coir mat (or similar) to disguise
it. It will look fairly smart and add extra insulation.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 11/30/2012 04:56 PM, rbel wrote:
The Acer is a Sango Kaku (therefore probably somewhat tender) and is
not grafted.

Sango Kaku is particularly susceptible to moisture related bark
problems, but other than that it's not particularly tender. The main
issue with cold will be dieback of small branches that don't ripen
sufficiently in our dreary climate... but where you are it won't have
to worry about the cold. The wind is another issue, Sango Kaku does
have wind burn problems.

Are you sure it's not grafted? There is a Dutch nursery selling rooted
cuttings now, but there weren't many around 5 years ago. You may have
gotten one of the early ones. They are murder to get to strike, I used
to see rates quoted around 1%!

On 30/11/2012 16:14, jim west wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:35:18 PM UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 28/11/2012 10:16, jim west wrote:

Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so wish
to
insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio outside, but
adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken
bricks
base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.
Bearing in mind the ground soil (and maybe these slabs? )are sometimes
warmer than the air temperature, should i *insulate* the pot from the
patio
slabs when i wrap in bubble wrap; or keep the pot placed next to the
paving
slabs, and just place the bubble wrap over plant and pot.

AFAIK the ground and slabs will tend to be colder than the air during
winter and warmer in summer. I would stand the pot on strips of
something (tiles?) to allow circulation of air under it

When outdoors gets down to freezing at night, the ground is warmer than
the air. So fof frost protection leave it in contact with the ground.


NT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to all. Its the freezing weather that i'm most worried about. People
are advise to bury themselves in snow at night, so i'm guessing you are
right that the ground is indeed warmer than the air when its very cold,
which means keeping close to the patio slabs and the house.

Also i'm thinking that heat can rise out of fleece and that its main purpose
is to deflect the wind. So it seems a possibility to use bubble wrap to wrap
the pot and plant, but leave some opening at the top to avoid trapping
moisture?


If you have any old shade netting then several layers of that make a
goos insulation from the cold

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:50:23 +0000, Spider wrote:


Many thanks Spider and Emery.

The Acer is a Sango Kaku (therefore probably somewhat tender) and is
not grafted.

In the past we have only covered the container with bubble wrap (not
the tree) as it is in a fairly exposed position. I would like to
locate it somewhere more sheltered but it is sited so that it is a
focal point on the frontage. Being less than a kilometre from the sea
in south Devon we rarely get any significant frosts but as we are atop
the highest ridge of hills in the area so we do get some interesting
gales.

I think that we will wrap the container again this year - I must think
of something that looks a bit better than bubblewrap!



Bubblewrap is fine, but why not use a coir mat (or similar) to disguise
it. It will look fairly smart and add extra insulation.

Good idea, however I have just been reminded that we have some dull
green fleece which may suit.
--
rbel

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:53:24 +0100, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 11/30/2012 04:56 PM, rbel wrote:
The Acer is a Sango Kaku (therefore probably somewhat tender) and is
not grafted.

Sango Kaku is particularly susceptible to moisture related bark
problems, but other than that it's not particularly tender. The main
issue with cold will be dieback of small branches that don't ripen
sufficiently in our dreary climate... but where you are it won't have
to worry about the cold. The wind is another issue, Sango Kaku does
have wind burn problems.

Agreed , there is dieback of some of the growing tips each year and
leaf scorch which I am sure is due to the wind.


Are you sure it's not grafted? There is a Dutch nursery selling rooted
cuttings now, but there weren't many around 5 years ago. You may have
gotten one of the early ones. They are murder to get to strike, I used
to see rates quoted around 1%!

AFAICR it is not grafted. It is multi-branched at soil level with no
obvious sign of grafting. It is a bit cold and dark at the moment to
check!
--
rbel

On Friday, November 30, 2012 4:14:14 PM UTC, jim west wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:35:18 PM UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 28/11/2012 10:16, jim west wrote:

Had a plant that nearly died from the frost and cold last year, so wish
to
insulate from the cold and its to be kept on a small patio outside, but
adjacent to the house.

The patio consists of paving slabs (placed on a hardcore of broken
bricks
base) about nine inches above the soil level.

I intend wrapping bubble wrap around the plant (a bamboo) and the pot.