wrote in message
...
Martin wrote:
(you could probably keep pigs in some of the rooms in our house and never
find them again)
LOL here too before the children grew up and left home.

Surprisingly, the boys' bedroom is the only tidy one atm. (Although that
is helped by me scraping up all the bits of toilet paper Daniel had spread
over his floor yesterday)

Might one be permitted to ask why he spread bits of .....

--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

Ophelia wrote:
Surprisingly, the boys' bedroom is the only tidy one atm. (Although that
is helped by me scraping up all the bits of toilet paper Daniel had spread
over his floor yesterday)

Might one be permitted to ask why he spread bits of .....

Being Daniel, it could very well have been "to wipe up the poo". However,
as far as I can tell in this case, it was "to **** off mummy". He said
they were in his bed and they were rubbish. So obviously the floor is the
place for them to go

wrote in message
...
Ophelia wrote:
Surprisingly, the boys' bedroom is the only tidy one atm. (Although
that
is helped by me scraping up all the bits of toilet paper Daniel had
spread
over his floor yesterday)

Might one be permitted to ask why he spread bits of .....

Being Daniel, it could very well have been "to wipe up the poo". However,
as far as I can tell in this case, it was "to **** off mummy". He said
they were in his bed and they were rubbish. So obviously the floor is the
place for them to go

Right! Did Mummy have a wee word with himself on this matter? g Does he
has a rubbish bin in his room? ))

--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

Ophelia wrote:
Being Daniel, it could very well have been "to wipe up the poo". However,
as far as I can tell in this case, it was "to **** off mummy". He said
they were in his bed and they were rubbish. So obviously the floor is the
place for them to go

Right! Did Mummy have a wee word with himself on this matter? g Does he
has a rubbish bin in his room? ))

He does not, but they don't really /normally/ have much opportunity to make
a mess of a rubbish kind. And also, he's particularly talented at throwing
things not-at-the-right-place. Eg, his dirty clothes aimed for the wash basket
end up on the top of the door ...

wrote in message
...
Ophelia wrote:
Being Daniel, it could very well have been "to wipe up the poo".
However,
as far as I can tell in this case, it was "to **** off mummy". He said
they were in his bed and they were rubbish. So obviously the floor is
the
place for them to go

Right! Did Mummy have a wee word with himself on this matter? g Does
he
has a rubbish bin in his room? ))

He does not, but they don't really /normally/ have much opportunity to
make
a mess of a rubbish kind. And also, he's particularly talented at
throwing
things not-at-the-right-place. Eg, his dirty clothes aimed for the wash
basket
end up on the top of the door ...


Going to be a striker for England then :-}

--
Kathy

In message , Christina Websell
writes

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Sacha
writes
On 2012-11-21 21:36:00 +0000, "Christina Websell"
said:

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...
snip
Tina, I know you are an authority on chickens. Would you consider
writing
up all the important points that a newby would need to know to start?
I would love to have that!!

First buy a 6 x 4 shed and not an Omlet stupid thing for hundreds.
Second don't think you don't have foxes - you do.
If you are thinking of starting with chickens yourself just mail me if
you
need advice.
No, I wouldn't write up the important points, those are freely available
in
magazines and the internet.
It's up to the person who decides to keep hens to do their research
before
they get them.
You are asking me to make it easy. I won't.
Tina

Nobody is asking you to make it easy, imo. This is a group to which
people come for help and advice and you're refusing to give it here. You
are very hard, always, on people who want to keep a few hens so why not
help them to do it properly - as you see it? If we didn't already have
our dozen chooks and were looking to start with a few, I'd think your
reply was intended to stop others doing what you enjoy and at which you
like to appear to excel. That's not what any of us who garden do here, so
why do you feel it right to do that to others who wish to keep hens?
Ophelia's was a civil request for assistance from you who talk quite a lot
about how others don't get it right but now refuse to tell them how they
*should* get it right. Bit smug and unkind both to would-be chicken
owners and the chickens who won't now benefit from your personal belief in
your own 'expertise'. You seem to spend a lot of time telling people how
much you know about something and then treating them as idiots. As a
result, there is little point in reading your posts in future, so I won't
bother.
Net nanny rides again.
--
bert

Have I treated anyone as an idiot?
If so I apologise.
I have offered help to Ophelia if she wants to get chickens.
I don't remember upsetting Sacha but maybe I did. so now she doesn't want to
see my posts
It's ridiculous.



Sacha I know you are an authority on gardening. Would you consider
writing up all the important points that a newby would need to know to
start?
I would love to have that!!
--
bert

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Christina Websell
writes

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Sacha
writes
On 2012-11-21 21:36:00 +0000, "Christina Websell"
said:

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...
snip
Tina, I know you are an authority on chickens. Would you consider
writing
up all the important points that a newby would need to know to
start?
I would love to have that!!

First buy a 6 x 4 shed and not an Omlet stupid thing for hundreds.
Second don't think you don't have foxes - you do.
If you are thinking of starting with chickens yourself just mail me if
you
need advice.
No, I wouldn't write up the important points, those are freely
available
in
magazines and the internet.
It's up to the person who decides to keep hens to do their research
before
they get them.
You are asking me to make it easy. I won't.
Tina

Nobody is asking you to make it easy, imo. This is a group to which
people come for help and advice and you're refusing to give it here. You
are very hard, always, on people who want to keep a few hens so why not
help them to do it properly - as you see it? If we didn't already have
our dozen chooks and were looking to start with a few, I'd think your
reply was intended to stop others doing what you enjoy and at which you
like to appear to excel. That's not what any of us who garden do here,
so
why do you feel it right to do that to others who wish to keep hens?
Ophelia's was a civil request for assistance from you who talk quite a
lot
about how others don't get it right but now refuse to tell them how they
*should* get it right. Bit smug and unkind both to would-be chicken
owners and the chickens who won't now benefit from your personal belief
in
your own 'expertise'. You seem to spend a lot of time telling people
how
much you know about something and then treating them as idiots. As a
result, there is little point in reading your posts in future, so I
won't
bother.
Net nanny rides again.
--
bert

Have I treated anyone as an idiot?
If so I apologise.
I have offered help to Ophelia if she wants to get chickens.
I don't remember upsetting Sacha but maybe I did. so now she doesn't want
to
see my posts
It's ridiculous.



Sacha I know you are an authority on gardening. Would you consider
writing up all the important points that a newby would need to know to
start?
I would love to have that!!

That is hardly comparable to keeping chickens which is rather specific don't
you think?
--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

wrote in message
...
Ophelia wrote:
Being Daniel, it could very well have been "to wipe up the poo".
However,
as far as I can tell in this case, it was "to **** off mummy". He said
they were in his bed and they were rubbish. So obviously the floor is
the
place for them to go

Right! Did Mummy have a wee word with himself on this matter? g Does
he
has a rubbish bin in his room? ))

He does not, but they don't really /normally/ have much opportunity to
make
a mess of a rubbish kind. And also, he's particularly talented at
throwing
things not-at-the-right-place. Eg, his dirty clothes aimed for the wash
basket
end up on the top of the door ...

Ahhh now that I do remember

--
--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...



Dogs are quite happy on a correct vegetarian diet.
My cousin feeds her dog (and fed the previous ones) on a mixture of raw
vegetables and a vegetarian dry dogfood.
Healthy, happy, very fit dogs.
It is unusual to see a dog regard a broccoli stalk as a treat though :-)

Offer them some meat versus the veggie diet and see what they prefer! In
the same way that I would not force meat on a pet rabbit because I eat
meat myself, I wouldn't force vegetarian preferences on my dogs. I
actually think this is bordering on cruelty.


For God's sake get a life.
Or at least a slightly more balanced view - cruelty to animals???

Perhaps instead you should approach the RSPCA and encourage them to
prosecute
http://www.veggiepets.com/acatalog/v...formation.html
who say
"Yes, dogs have no problem being vegetarian. Dogs do not have to rely on
eating meat as they can find all the nutrition that they require from
non-animal sources.

There are thousands of healthy dogs living on vegetarian diets without any
problems. Happidog, the first vegetarian dog food in the UK, is celebrating
its 25th anniversary and is going strong with more vegetarian dogs than
ever!

In fact, some health problems can be alleviated by cutting out meat.
Vegetarian diets are well known for relieving arthritis, skin and fur
problems and obesity in dogs.

Our selection of vegetarian dog foods are well balanced and nutritious,
supplying all of the essential nutrition your dog needs. High in protein,
low in fat without artificial flavourings or colourings."

Obviously these are evil people who are promoting willful cruelty towards
dogs and should be pursued by all right minded people.

Looking forward to your positive action.

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

The only thing I'd add to this, Dave, is that a long time ago a vet
told me that dogs' and cats' stomach acids are designed i.e. strong
enough, to dissolve raw meat. Aiui, feeding them cooked and processed
meat is actually, potentially, harmful to them. Now, ours are fed a
canned food that is meat based and they'd stand on their noses in a
hoop of fire for chicken, raw or cooked, so I'm guess from many, many
years of dog ownership that their personal preference is for meat or
poultry. That's certainly what their teeth seem to be designed for -
dogs teeth are for tearing, cats tongues are for rasping. I've known
dogs steal meat but only one that stole meat as well as raw carrots!
I'm not saying vegetarian food is BAD for them, if properly balanced.
But I don't think it's natural. ...

Actually, it is. While wolves are primarily carnivorous, many other
dogs (e.g. foxes) most definitely are omnivorous, and almost all
dogs can do very well with a largely vegetarian diet. Some hunts
fed their hounds on porridge! Yes, they prefer meat, but so do we
and chimpanzees, as a general rule - and we are NOT adapted to eat
much of it.

Cats are a different matter, as can be seen from their teeth. Most
are obligate carnivores, and cannot handle a largely vegetarian diet.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

Interesting, Nick and thank you. On the same lines, a friend of mine,
who was vegetarian for 15 years, had to start eating meat because his
stomach acids were destroying his own stomach lining! Again, his doc
told him that we are intended to be omnivorous for this reason. But
the key here, surely, is that we're talking *omnivorous* for dogs, not
purely vegetarian, so perhaps Tina and Dave's views meet somewhere in
the middle.

Probably, though I have serious difficulty in believing that diagnosis!
Humans have no trouble with an almost entirely vegetarian diet, except
that we need enough animal matter in it (whether caterpillars, meat,
eggs or fish) to avoid anaemia (mainly vitamin B12, but to some extent
iron). A far more likely cause is Helicobacter pylori - and, if the
diagnosis was more than a decade or so ago, that was still largely
unrecognised by the medical profession.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-11-24 18:26:30 +0000, said:

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

Interesting, Nick and thank you. On the same lines, a friend of mine,
who was vegetarian for 15 years, had to start eating meat because his
stomach acids were destroying his own stomach lining! Again, his doc
told him that we are intended to be omnivorous for this reason. But
the key here, surely, is that we're talking *omnivorous* for dogs, not
purely vegetarian, so perhaps Tina and Dave's views meet somewhere in
the middle.

Probably, though I have serious difficulty in believing that diagnosis!
Humans have no trouble with an almost entirely vegetarian diet, except
that we need enough animal matter in it (whether caterpillars, meat,
eggs or fish) to avoid anaemia (mainly vitamin B12, but to some extent
iron). A far more likely cause is Helicobacter pylori - and, if the
diagnosis was more than a decade or so ago, that was still largely
unrecognised by the medical profession.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

It was certainly more than a decade ago so you may be right. I've just
remembered that, later, the same person had surgery for a hernia, so
whether the two affected one another, I have no idea. Of course, it
doesn't alter the fact that dogs are omnivorous and not purely vegetarian
by inclination.


I think the key thing here is the word 'omnivorous'.
Both humans and dogs are omnivores.
Which means that they can tolerate a wide variety of food, both animal and
vegetable.

The thing I took very great exception to was Christina's somewhat hysterical
accusation that feeding a dog on a vegetarian diet was tantamount to
cruelty - oh, her words were 'bordering on cruelty'.

She may well hold quite violent views against vegetarianism but if she feels
that feeding omnivores on a vegetarian diet is bordering on cruelty then she
should have the courage of her convictions and publicly campaign against
feeding children on a vegetarian diet.

Or reconsider some perhaps rather hasty words.

Some people who don't agree with vegetarianism may well feel that
vegetarians should not be allowed to impose their views on dogs.

However I know several omnivore dog owners who feed their dogs on a
vegetarian diet because they think that it suits their particular dog, so
the choice of diet is not always because the owner is vegetarian.

The statement that started all this was from Bob H
"She had one client that was a vegetarian and therefor so was her dog, poor
dog was always ravenous, would steal any meat, and suffered digestion
problems which was always cured by the time he went home again only to
re-occur immediately."

My point was (and is) that since dogs can survive quite happily and
healthily on a vegetarian diet then the dog wasn't starving because it was
on a vegetarian diet, but because it wasn't being fed correctly (i.e.
sufficient quantity of a balanced vegetarian diet at the correct time of
day).

Sadly dogs can be starved (and are) on an omnivore or pure meat diet just as
easily.

Cheers


Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:

I think the key thing here is the word 'omnivorous'.
Both humans and dogs are omnivores.
Which means that they can tolerate a wide variety of food, both animal and
vegetable.

Yes. But we are omnivores, descended from herbivores, and they are
omnivores, descended from carnivores. So they have somewhat more
requirement for a high-protein diet than we do.

However, they have had tens of thousands of generations of adaptation
(perhaps more) and we have had hundreds of thousands. Both of us have
very different metabolisms from our ancestral species, towards
similar requirements.

Cats, of course, walk by themselves ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.