On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under glass.
They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm
wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when the
weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they need.
What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and night
scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I
should leave them for a bit?
Any advice appreciated

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:03:37 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:

On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under glass.
They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm
wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when the
weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they need.
What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and night
scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I
should leave them for a bit?
Any advice appreciated

Mine were started off in 40-cell trays (simply makes potting on a
doddle as I handle the plugs, not the plants) and are now in 9cm pots.
If yours are in "communal" seed trays the usual "large enough to
handle" rule applies though I'd say sooner rather than later so they
have a chance to get over the trauma of repotting before it gets too
cold.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 13/11/2012 11:23, The Original Jake wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:03:37 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:

On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under glass.
They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm
wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when the
weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they need.
What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and night
scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I
should leave them for a bit?
Any advice appreciated

Mine were started off in 40-cell trays (simply makes potting on a
doddle as I handle the plugs, not the plants) and are now in 9cm pots.
If yours are in "communal" seed trays the usual "large enough to
handle" rule applies though I'd say sooner rather than later so they
have a chance to get over the trauma of repotting before it gets too
cold.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.


Thanks Jake, I'll give it a whirl and see just how easy they are to
handle. I think a teaspoon might be best

On 13/11/2012 12:01, stuart noble wrote:
On 13/11/2012 11:23, The Original Jake wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:03:37 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:

On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under glass.
They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm
wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when the
weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they need.
What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and night
scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I
should leave them for a bit?
Any advice appreciated

Mine were started off in 40-cell trays (simply makes potting on a
doddle as I handle the plugs, not the plants) and are now in 9cm pots.
If yours are in "communal" seed trays the usual "large enough to
handle" rule applies though I'd say sooner rather than later so they
have a chance to get over the trauma of repotting before it gets too
cold.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.


Thanks Jake, I'll give it a whirl and see just how easy they are to
handle. I think a teaspoon might be best

Wow, pricking out night scented stocks is certainly a labour of love.
Never again!
The cornflower roots were 3"-4" long, so well overdue for potting up
but, at the same time, still too delicate to handle. I don't know how
you resolve that problem.
The others were relatively easy but they all look a bit bedraggled at
the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

On 13/11/2012 18:03, stuart noble wrote:
On 13/11/2012 12:01, stuart noble wrote:
On 13/11/2012 11:23, The Original Jake wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:03:37 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:

On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under glass.
They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm
wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when the
weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they
need.
What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and night
scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I
should leave them for a bit?
Any advice appreciated

Mine were started off in 40-cell trays (simply makes potting on a
doddle as I handle the plugs, not the plants) and are now in 9cm pots.
If yours are in "communal" seed trays the usual "large enough to
handle" rule applies though I'd say sooner rather than later so they
have a chance to get over the trauma of repotting before it gets too
cold.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.


Thanks Jake, I'll give it a whirl and see just how easy they are to
handle. I think a teaspoon might be best

Wow, pricking out night scented stocks is certainly a labour of love.
Never again!
The cornflower roots were 3"-4" long, so well overdue for potting up
but, at the same time, still too delicate to handle. I don't know how
you resolve that problem.
The others were relatively easy but they all look a bit bedraggled at
the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

If they are not to thick I'd have left them in the trays over winter
then taken a knife to them and cut the compost into blocks about 1 inch
square and planted those into pots before planting out a few weeks later.

On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 18:09:45 UTC, Dave Hill wrote:

If they are not to thick I'd have left them in the trays over winter

then taken a knife to them and cut the compost into blocks about 1 inch

square and planted those into pots before planting out a few weeks later.

Disturbing seedlings or even more advanced plants this late, isn't a great idea.
So yes, David I agree with you so long as they are not too thick.
However, I would have prefered to sow hardy annuals in their flowering positions, thinning in Spring.
For the o/p I always prick out seedlings asap, which really means as soon as you can grasp the cotyledons between finger and thumb (on no account touch any other part of the seedling, they're too delicate) - don't wait for true leaves. Loosen the compost so you have little lumps of compost full of seedlings with almost all of their root still intact and gently tease them apart and lower them into pre-dibbed holes and lightly close the holes with 2 fingers. If the compost is well well wetted in advance but not saturated you probably won't need to do much else until the little plants are growing away. This way you get almost no root damage and they hardly know they've been moved. The roots you don't want to damage are the root hairs which you can't see without magnification. These will be stripped off if you just yank the seedlings out - you certainly don't want to feel things snapping as you separate the seedlings. This should be done when conditions are favourable for continued growth. So this advice is mainly for bedding sown in early spring.
I taught this procedure to a young colleague some years ago, when he'd done the first 60 or so trays I asked him how he was getting along. 'Oh OK but I wouldn't want to do this for a living' to which my reply was 'that's just what you are doing!'

Rod

On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 11:03:37 UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under glass.

They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm

wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when the

weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they need.

What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and night

scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I

should leave them for a bit?

Any advice appreciated

Just a quick one to add to my post further down.
Hardy Annuals and other hardy plants are what it says on the label, they do not need mollycoddling and there is no need to use precious covered space for them, in fact for autumn sowing they need to be started hard and kept hard, I'm rather afraid you'll find it difficult now to acclimatise those plants to the great outdoors.
An aside to the question, I've used hardy annuals with some success in part of a border that is full of snowdrops. As the snowdrops were dying down a couple of years ago I scratched round with a rake and emptied a few packets of hardy annuals in there, another scratch round and then left them to it. That year we had a lovely annual border after the snowdrops and I then left them until just before the snowdrops started to show through so they self seeded in autumn and spring. We had a good free show this last summer as well.

Rod

On 13/11/2012 18:42, Rod wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 18:09:45 UTC, Dave Hill wrote:

If they are not to thick I'd have left them in the trays over winter

then taken a knife to them and cut the compost into blocks about 1 inch

square and planted those into pots before planting out a few weeks later.

Disturbing seedlings or even more advanced plants this late, isn't a great idea.
So yes, David I agree with you so long as they are not too thick.
However, I would have prefered to sow hardy annuals in their flowering positions,
thinning in Spring.
For the o/p I always prick out seedlings asap, which really means as soon as you can grasp
the cotyledons between finger and thumb (on no account touch any other
part of the seedling,
they're too delicate)

- don't wait for true leaves. Loosen the compost so you have little
lumps of compost full of
seedlings with almost all of their root still intact and gently tease
them apart and lower
them into pre-dibbed holes and lightly close the holes with 2 fingers.
If the compost is well
well wetted in advance but not saturated you probably won't need to do
much else until the little
plants are growing away. This way you get almost no root damage and they
hardly know they've been moved. The roots you don't want to damage are
the root hairs which you can't see without magnification. These will be
stripped off if you just yank the seedlings out - you certainly don't
want to feel things snapping as you separate the seedlings. This should
be done when conditions are favourable for continued growth. So this
advice is mainly for bedding sown in early spring.
I taught this procedure to a young colleague some years ago, when he'd
done the first 60 or so
trays I asked him how he was getting along. 'Oh OK but I wouldn't want
to do this for a living'
to which my reply was 'that's just what you are doing!'

Rod

I'll second Rods point about handling seedlings.
"grasp the cotyledons between finger and thumb"
As I was taught
You wouldn't grab a Baby by the neck, well it's the same with seedlings.

On 13/11/2012 19:01, Rod wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 11:03:37 UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On Jakes's advice I have sown some hardy annuals outdoors under
glass.

They are now a couple of inches high in their seed trays and I'm

wondering when to pot them up. They will obviously slow up when
the

weather gets colder but I want to give the roots all the room they
need.

What I have are nigella, cornflowers, californian poppies, and
night

scented stock. They can probably just about be handled but maybe I

should leave them for a bit?

Any advice appreciated

Just a quick one to add to my post further down. Hardy Annuals and
other hardy plants are what it says on the label, they do not need
mollycoddling and there is no need to use precious covered space for
them, in fact for autumn sowing they need to be started hard and kept
hard, I'm rather afraid you'll find it difficult now to acclimatise
those plants to the great outdoors. An aside to the question, I've
used hardy annuals with some success in part of a border that is full
of snowdrops. As the snowdrops were dying down a couple of years ago
I scratched round with a rake and emptied a few packets of hardy
annuals in there, another scratch round and then left them to it.
That year we had a lovely annual border after the snowdrops and I
then left them until just before the snowdrops started to show
through so they self seeded in autumn and spring. We had a good free
show this last summer as well.

Rod


According to RHS the above are *almost* hardy annuals i.e. they need
*some* protection over winter.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:42:31 -0800 (PST), Rod
wrote:

On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 18:09:45 UTC, Dave Hill wrote:

If they are not to thick I'd have left them in the trays over winter

then taken a knife to them and cut the compost into blocks about 1 inch

square and planted those into pots before planting out a few weeks later.

Disturbing seedlings or even more advanced plants this late, isn't a great idea.
So yes, David I agree with you so long as they are not too thick.
However, I would have prefered to sow hardy annuals in their flowering positions, thinning in Spring.
For the o/p I always prick out seedlings asap, which really means as soon as you can grasp the cotyledons between finger and thumb (on no account touch any other part of the seedling, they're too delicate) - don't wait for true leaves. Loosen the compost so you have little lumps of compost full of seedlings with almost all of their root still intact and gently tease them apart and lower them into pre-dibbed holes and lightly close the holes with 2 fingers. If the compost is well well wetted in advance but not saturated you probably won't need to do much else until the little plants are growing away. This way you get almost no root damage and they hardly know they've been moved. The roots you don't want to damage are the root hairs which you can't see without magnification. These will be stripped off if you just yank the seedlings out - you certainly don't want to feel things snapping as you separate the seedlings. This should be done when conditions are favourable for continued
growth. So this advice is mainly for bedding sown in early spring.
I taught this procedure to a young colleague some years ago, when he'd done the first 60 or so trays I asked him how he was getting along. 'Oh OK but I wouldn't want to do this for a living' to which my reply was 'that's just what you are doing!'

Rod

Sowing in the open means that the very young plants are at the mercy
of the elements. Indeed, here, the ground is way too waterlogged
anyway. I sow in 40-cell trays, 2 or 3 seeds to a cell. Then the plugs
can easily be potted on. If necessary, they'll be thinned next year by
yanking a seedling out. The simple advantage of autumn sowings is that
flowering starts earlier. A second sowing (or serial sowing) in Spring
then extends that season later. Particularly good if you like cut
flowers.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

Sowing in the open means that the very young plants are at the mercy
of the elements. Indeed, here, the ground is way too waterlogged
anyway. I sow in 40-cell trays, 2 or 3 seeds to a cell.

The problem for me is isolating 2 or 3 seeds when they're as fine as
dust and you get 500 or so in a packet. Not getting them all in the same
place is the best I can hope for.

On 14/11/2012 19:18, stuart noble wrote:

Sowing in the open means that the very young plants are at the mercy
of the elements. Indeed, here, the ground is way too waterlogged
anyway. I sow in 40-cell trays, 2 or 3 seeds to a cell.

The problem for me is isolating 2 or 3 seeds when they're as fine as
dust and you get 500 or so in a packet. Not getting them all in the same
place is the best I can hope for.

An old method was to mix fine seed with some dry sand and then sow it.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 19:18:10 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:


Sowing in the open means that the very young plants are at the mercy
of the elements. Indeed, here, the ground is way too waterlogged
anyway. I sow in 40-cell trays, 2 or 3 seeds to a cell.

The problem for me is isolating 2 or 3 seeds when they're as fine as
dust and you get 500 or so in a packet. Not getting them all in the same
place is the best I can hope for.

My approach is that I'm never going to have space for 500+ of one
plant so if they're too small to handle I just scatter them over the
surface (mix in with some silver sand) and thin them out later if I
need to. But, IME, the smaller/larger quantity seeds don't germinate
at such a rate as the larger/smaller quantity ones. I usually use a
pack of 1,000+ amaranthus seeds and end up with a couple-of-dozen
plants which is more than enough.

Most of the autumn hardies I sow are big enough for the "thumb and
forefinger" treatment though. The 2-3 seeds per cell is, I suppose, an
uneducated guesstimate of what ends up in them. Poppies, for example,
are probably 20-30 seeds per cell

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 14/11/2012 19:23, David Hill wrote:
On 14/11/2012 19:18, stuart noble wrote:

Sowing in the open means that the very young plants are at the mercy
of the elements. Indeed, here, the ground is way too waterlogged
anyway. I sow in 40-cell trays, 2 or 3 seeds to a cell.

The problem for me is isolating 2 or 3 seeds when they're as fine as
dust and you get 500 or so in a packet. Not getting them all in the same
place is the best I can hope for.

An old method was to mix fine seed with some dry sand and then sow it.

Thanks, I'll try that next time

On Thursday, 15 November 2012 06:48:53 UTC, stuart noble wrote:




Thanks, I'll try that next time

For next time, there's an excellent book by the Late Christopher Lloyd and Graham Wright. Called Growing Flowers from seed, it's a Penguin, my copy is a 1997 edition so I don't know if it's still in print.

Rod