This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341

On 19/09/2012 17:07, Fuschia wrote:

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341

Actually it is more what you get if you buy into Monsanto's global
agribusiness monopoly and overuse the same Roundup Ready cash crops
again and again on the same area of land without any rotation break.

It was entirely predictable and was predicted at the outset, but it
didn't stop greedy US farmers from abusing the method aided and abetted
by Monsanto who were delighted to sell both their proprietory seeds and
ever increasing amount of agricultural chemicals.

Similar stupid behaviour occurs elsewhere in the world but this is the
most extreme example. If you only ever use one pesticide you should not
be at all surprised when tolerance builds up over a few years. The only
surprise is more that it has already got out of hand so quickly.

I guess since the patent has now expired on the synthetic route to
glyphosate (LD50 ~5g/kg) they don't mind but it is astonishing to have
to return to something as primitive as 2,4 D (LD50 0.6g/kg).

A WWII era weedkiller and one of the first broadleaf specific ones.

It could be worse - they may well have to use more paraquat too.
(that is an order of magnitude more toxic LD50 0.06g/kg)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:49:35 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.

With respect, Bob, that's a little "head in the sand". Some gardeners
use herbicides and pesticides indiscriminately. In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations. Anyone who has ever been
prescribed a course of anti-biotics but got better and didn't complete
the course has contributed to the development of resistant bacteria.
If herbicide resistant weeds develop on the farm next door, they'll be
in your garden soon and will gradually seed down the road, around the
bend, into the next town ......

And of course, the first whiff of a single glyphosate resistant plant
and the EU will ban glyphosate in a forlorn effort to stop the
"problem" getting worse.

I worry about genetic modification. No-one (yet) knows how tall a
Leylandii will eventually grow! No-one knows how future generations
spawned from today's genetically modified plants will evolve.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 19/09/2012 17:48, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/09/2012 17:07, Fuschia wrote:

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341

Actually it is more what you get if you buy into Monsanto's global
agribusiness monopoly and overuse the same Roundup Ready cash crops
again and again on the same area of land without any rotation break.

It was entirely predictable and was predicted at the outset, but it
didn't stop greedy US farmers from abusing the method aided and abetted
by Monsanto who were delighted to sell both their proprietory seeds and
ever increasing amount of agricultural chemicals.

Similar stupid behaviour occurs elsewhere in the world but this is the
most extreme example. If you only ever use one pesticide you should not
be at all surprised when tolerance builds up over a few years. The only
surprise is more that it has already got out of hand so quickly.

I guess since the patent has now expired on the synthetic route to
glyphosate (LD50 ~5g/kg) they don't mind but it is astonishing to have
to return to something as primitive as 2,4 D (LD50 0.6g/kg).

A WWII era weedkiller and one of the first broadleaf specific ones.

It could be worse - they may well have to use more paraquat too.
(that is an order of magnitude more toxic LD50 0.06g/kg)

Unfortunately Paraquat -- sold as Gramoxone --- has been banned for the
last 3 years or so now

On 19/09/2012 18:46, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:14:26 +0100, Jake
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:49:35 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.

With respect, Bob, that's a little "head in the sand". Some gardeners
use herbicides and pesticides indiscriminately. In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations.

NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.

Anyone who has ever been
prescribed a course of anti-biotics but got better and didn't complete
the course has contributed to the development of resistant bacteria.
If herbicide resistant weeds develop on the farm next door, they'll be
in your garden soon and will gradually seed down the road, around the
bend, into the next town ......

UK and France over used antibiotics.
The Netherlands were and still are very sparing in the use of
antibiotics.
The problem of disease resistant bacteria is the same in all three
countries.

And of course, the first whiff of a single glyphosate resistant plant
and the EU will ban glyphosate in a forlorn effort to stop the
"problem" getting worse.


Just remember that we take in more antibiotics in our meat than we get
from the Dr.

"Martin" wrote ...

"Bob Hobden" wrote:

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners
though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.

Bacteria resistance to antibiotics does not depend on your personal
use of them, nor even a country's policy to not over use antibiotics.

Not sure that is correct, my understanding is it's mainly caused by
overprescribing in animals and people, and people not taking the full course
as prescribed.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:
"Martin" wrote ...

Bacteria resistance to antibiotics does not depend on your personal
use of them, nor even a country's policy to not over use antibiotics.

Not sure that is correct, my understanding is it's mainly caused by
overprescribing in animals and people, and people not taking the full course
as prescribed.

It is definitely INcorrect, and you are correct.

We may well get inflicted with the giant mutant ragweed and other
such plants the USA has created, but there is a fairly low chance
that they will cause even farmers in the UK as much trouble.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 20/09/2012 07:27, wrote:
In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:
"Martin" wrote ...

Bacteria resistance to antibiotics does not depend on your personal
use of them, nor even a country's policy to not over use antibiotics.

Not sure that is correct, my understanding is it's mainly caused by
overprescribing in animals and people, and people not taking the full course
as prescribed.

It is definitely INcorrect, and you are correct.

But with modern travel it is overuse and misuse mostly in other far
flung countries that has created antibiotic resistance strains. The US
habit of using them as a prophylactic growth promoter particularly.

We may well get inflicted with the giant mutant ragweed and other
such plants the USA has created, but there is a fairly low chance
that they will cause even farmers in the UK as much trouble.

Until we allow commercial scale growing of RoundUp Ready crops it is
unlikely we will see many Roundup resistant weeds. Buttercup and ivy are
already half way there. I expect RoundUp Ready oilseed rape volunteers
to be a nuisance though if they ever arrive.

ISTR there is a vigorous wild cabbage that they will outcross to as well.

Other serious nuisance plants in the US would probably find it too cold
and short a growing season over here to complete a life cycle here.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article , Martin
writes
In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations.

NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.

Far too simple. Varroa and other mites can be a contributory factor to
colony collapse but they are not THE cause. As with many things, the
causes are a collection of environmental (in its widest sense)
variables.

--
regards andyw

On 09/20/2012 10:52 AM, Martin wrote:
Just remember that we take in more antibiotics in our meat than we get
from the Dr.

Especially in the Netherlands.

Very easy to avoid in France though. Many butchers follow the supply
line closely and can guarantee grass fed, minimum intervention beef.
All bets are off if you buy from a big supermarket though.

BTW after a big push around 10 yrs ago antibiotics are much less
prescribed here. It's true they used to be handed out for every cold
and sniffle.

You all seem to be missing the irony in this, the fact that the weeds have achieved, in a short period of time, all by themselves, what took Monsanto's scientists years of research and vast sums of money to do.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:17:35 +0000, Granity
wrote:


news;969166 Wrote:
In article , Martin
lid writes--
In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations.-

NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.-

Far too simple. Varroa and other mites can be a contributory factor to

colony collapse but they are not THE cause. As with many things, the
causes are a collection of environmental (in its widest sense)
variables.

--
regards andyw

You all seem to be missing the irony in this, the fact that the weeds
have achieved, in a short period of time, all by themselves, what took
Monsanto's scientists years of research and vast sums of money to do.

Nature always wins in the end, and we tamper with it at our peril

On Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:12:12 AM UTC+1, news wrote:
In article , Martin

writes

In agriculture,

intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,

for example, the decrease in bee populations.



NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.



Far too simple. Varroa and other mites can be a contributory factor to

colony collapse but they are not THE cause. As with many things, the

causes are a collection of environmental (in its widest sense)

variables...


And of course if farmers spray millions of gallons of insecticides on their fields, they cannot be surprised when insects are killed in their billions.

Bees are insects.

On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:45:47 UTC+1, Martin wrote:


UK and France over used antibiotics.

The Netherlands were and still are very sparing in the use of

antibiotics.

The problem of disease resistant bacteria is the same in all three

countries.

Of course, they share borders and the same strain of drug resistant bacteria will be found in all 3 countries. Does not matter if one country does not overuse drugs, it will pick up the newer and stronger bacteria.

DanP