I was given a Pinot Noir vine as a present. I do not want to grow it
outside as I would not expect any fruit this far north (Manchester). So I
will plant it in a container in my conservatory.

Any advice from anyone who has done this successfully? I am not able to cut
a hole in the floor to allow the plant to root in the natural ground, nor
can I grow it outside and train it in through a hole in the wall as I have
seen suggested.

Love
R.

Ragnar wrote:
I was given a Pinot Noir vine as a present. I do not want to grow it
outside as I would not expect any fruit this far north (Manchester). So I
will plant it in a container in my conservatory.

Any advice from anyone who has done this successfully? I am not able to cut
a hole in the floor to allow the plant to root in the natural ground, nor
can I grow it outside and train it in through a hole in the wall as I have
seen suggested.

We have two outdoor grapes (not sure of the variety) in pots, which have both
fruited this year, one better than the other, for no apparent reason. They
are both routinely watered with a drip-waterer twice a day. (We are much
further south than you, but presumably your question is about whether they
can be pot-grown)

In fact, the black grape that we have pot-grown up the kitchen wall seems to
fruit better than any of the outdoor ones have ever done.

On Tuesday, 18 September 2012 11:20:25 UTC+1, Ragnar wrote:
I was given a Pinot Noir vine as a present. I do not want to grow it outside as I would not expect any fruit this far north (Manchester). So I will plant it in a container in my conservatory. Any advice from anyone who has done this successfully? I am not able to cut a hole in the floor to allow the plant to root in the natural ground, nor can I grow it outside and train it in through a hole in the wall as I have seen suggested. Love R.

I was chastised recently for suggesting that Manchester was very far north.You may be interested to know that I and several others are planting vines on our allotments.
I have experience of growing four varieties outside at a site in Herefordshire with the following ripening times there,and make excellent wine from each variety.

Rondo(red) mid/late September
Bacchus (white) early October
Regent (red) early/mid October
Schonburger (white) early/mid October

Since we will probably not be able have access to the Herefordshire site for many more years,I am planning ahead and will be planting all of the above varieties in Cheadle Hulme (S.Manchester).Rondo and Bacchus will certainly ripen well here,and probably Schonburger and Regent.So I am planting 8 Rondo,4 Bacchus,3 Regent and 3 Schonburger.
I will be setting up a wire trellis,plant the vines 4.5 ft apart and train using Double Guyot.There are plenty of books around to advise on what to do..
Michael

If you could usefully grow specialist wine grapes like Pinot Noir in a glasshouse, the Netherlands would be a great producer of wine. If you want to grow grapes indoors and get useful output, get an eating variety. Given the space, time and attention you are going to have to give it, it just isn't worth the bother growing a ridiculous variety, the vine itself only costs £15 or so. Pinot Noir is also known to be one of the most prone to disease and pests of all vines.

If you have a protected and sunny south facing wall, I reckon you could get useful grapes outdoors off one of the specialist far-northern grape varieties like Phoenix and Regent, with high fungal resistance, even in Manchester. All these Pinot Noir and Chardonnay vines you see in nurseries for sale to ordinary garden customers, they are selling dreams not reality. The sparkling wine producers actually need the grapes to be very acidic, and are mostly within 30 miles of the south coast. I'm growing Phoenix outdoors in Bucks against a sunny wall. Last two years I have been eating grapes before the end of August, that's about 3 weeks before they pick the grapes in Bordeaux. This dreadful year it's a bit later but the grapes are already sweet and they'll be nicely ripe soon I reckon, couple of weeks more, but I'm getting a bumper harvest. Meanwhile down in Dorset, the vineyards with their Pinot and Chard are hoping the frost stays off until November. Makes a huge difference if you have an early cool-climate variety. As well as eating nicely, Phoenix also makes OK wine - nearby Frithsden vineyard produces it.

Someone on Gardener's Question Time regularly recommends growing grapes in (large) containers, and reminds people it is common practice in Vienna, for example. But again this should be for eating grapes, not wine grapes. You do need to be able to put the container so the vine can run up a sunny wall, or a trellis in a protected sunny spot.

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...
I was given a Pinot Noir vine as a present. I do not want to grow it
outside as I would not expect any fruit this far north (Manchester). So I
will plant it in a container in my conservatory.

Any advice from anyone who has done this successfully? I am not able to
cut a hole in the floor to allow the plant to root in the natural ground,
nor can I grow it outside and train it in through a hole in the wall as I
have seen suggested.

Love
R.
There are issues with grow vines in pots but all are quite easily overcome.

First is vine weevil which will find the pots eventually so it is essential
to do routine prevention, whether you chose organic or chemical is up to you
just don't do nothing!

Second is water, a vine in full leaf needs a lot, some sort of adjustable
dripper system is the easiest solution.

Third is the amount of grapes you can expect the root system to support and
ripen, experiment, if the number of bunches you get don't ripen, try
reducing to less the following year.

And I would suggest that sited well there is no reason the vine would not
crop outdoors.


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

echinosum wrote:
but presumably your question is about whether they can be pot-grown)

In fact, the black grape that we have pot-grown up the kitchen wall
seems to
fruit better than any of the outdoor ones have ever done.
Someone on Gardener's Question Time regularly recommends growing grapes
in (large) containers, and reminds people it is common practice in
Vienna, for example. But again this should be for eating grapes, not
wine grapes. You do need to be able to put the container so the vine
can run up a sunny wall, or a trellis in a protected sunny spot.

What's the difference between growing eating grapes vs growing wine grapes?

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...
I was given a Pinot Noir vine as a present. I do not want to grow it
outside as I would not expect any fruit this far north (Manchester). So I
will plant it in a container in my conservatory.

Any advice from anyone who has done this successfully? I am not able to
cut a hole in the floor to allow the plant to root in the natural ground,
nor can I grow it outside and train it in through a hole in the wall as I
have seen suggested.


Just to note that you have excluded possibly the two best ways to grow your
vine.
Generally planting ouside and leading through into the greenhouse is one of
the best ways.
Why can you not do this?
You could plant in a pot outside and still lead the fruiting part through
into the greenhouse.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Martin wrote:
Someone on Gardener's Question Time regularly recommends growing grapes
in (large) containers, and reminds people it is common practice in
Vienna, for example. But again this should be for eating grapes, not
wine grapes. You do need to be able to put the container so the vine
can run up a sunny wall, or a trellis in a protected sunny spot.

What's the difference between growing eating grapes vs growing wine grapes?

The type of grape?

Well, yes, but why would grapes that are good for wine be suitable for
growing in a particular way and not another, compared to those that are
good for growing for eating?

We can certainly observe that the location for growing grapes is a very important factor in the quality of the juice for producing wine. This is why named locations such as Champagne, Bordeaux and Burgundy are so important to the quality of the wine, and that very little wine is grown in France outside the known good locations. We can also observe that practices in the vineyard also make a huge difference to the quality of the wine. So, whilst there may be more than one good way, there are certainly very many bad ways for growing grapes that have a detrimental effect on the quality of the grapes for making wines. We can also observe that a glass house, or a container, are completely useless ways of growing grapes for wine production - no one does it, even when free from European regulation. I think it suffices for you to know that this is the case, and is clearly demonstrated as such, rather than any particular reason to know "why", and in any case the answer to "why" in relation to many of these details is not well known, despite serious attempts to find out. We do know that the drainage structure of the soil is more important than the chemical make-up, though the latter is not totally irrelevant, and that the roots need to find their way deep, very deep. But in general finding out what to do to get acceptable wine has been to a matter of trial and error over the centuries.

However in the case of growing the grapes in a container and/or a glass-house, I think we can guess the likely reason for the unsuitability - grown in such an intensive fashion the grapes will contain too much sugar and water and not enough of the acids, polyphenols, and other trace flavour components required for good wine, and will be too far out of balance in that regard to make any kind of acceptable wine.

Wine grapes are usually perfectly edible if fully ripe - sweetness is an essential part of both edibility and suitability for wine making. Certainly I know from personal experience that grown somewhere like Central Chile (the equivalent climate of Portugal) Pinot Noir is sweet and fragrantly aromatic in flavour to eat. But even grown there the grapes are very small, tiny little things, with lots of pip, falling well short of ideal for eating out of hand. If you are growing them for eating, better to grow something that has that purpose. Better to grow something that you will get to that level of ripeness for eating.

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...
I was given a Pinot Noir vine as a present. I do not want to grow it
outside as I would not expect any fruit this far north (Manchester). So I
will plant it in a container in my conservatory.

Any advice from anyone who has done this successfully? I am not able to
cut a hole in the floor to allow the plant to root in the natural ground,
nor can I grow it outside and train it in through a hole in the wall as I
have seen suggested.

Love
R.

Thank you all for your advice. I have decided not to take the trouble to
produce grapes but to grow the plant outdoors for purely decorative effect.
I will regard any grapes as a bonus.
:-)
R.