Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on
top of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep
and 30 across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum
atropurpureum (as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It
lasted 3 years, but was never happy, and finally died last winter. I
guess there could have been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour
and interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and
deeper before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees
in that situation?

--

Jeff

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on top
of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep and 30
across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum atropurpureum
(as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It lasted 3 years, but
was never happy, and finally died last winter. I guess there could have
been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour and
interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and deeper
before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees in
that situation?

--

Jeff

Have a look at Sambucus 'Black Lace' looks like an Acer but being an elder
grows pretty much anywhere. (don't know the answer to actual question as I
don't have clay soil)


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 23/07/2012 10:37, Charlie Pridham wrote:

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on top
of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep and 30
across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum atropurpureum
(as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It lasted 3 years, but
was never happy, and finally died last winter. I guess there could have
been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour and
interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and deeper
before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees in
that situation?

--

Jeff

Have a look at Sambucus 'Black Lace' looks like an Acer but being an elder
grows pretty much anywhere. (don't know the answer to actual question as I
don't have clay soil)

I grow Sambucus "Black Lace" in clay soil, and consider it a really
attractive plant. I did consider it, but in a couple of years a small
boy crawling around the garden will not make mum happy when he squashes
the fruits all over himself and then the carpet!

--

Jeff

On 23/07/2012 11:39, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-07-23 10:37:56 +0100, "Charlie Pridham"
said:


"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on
top of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep
and 30 across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum
atropurpureum (as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It
lasted 3 years, but was never happy, and finally died last winter. I
guess there could have been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour
and interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and
deeper before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees
in that situation?

--

Jeff

Have a look at Sambucus 'Black Lace' looks like an Acer but being an
elder grows pretty much anywhere. (don't know the answer to actual
question as I don't have clay soil)

I'd also suggest looking at Gleditsia triacanthos Ruby Lace. Apparently
they're tolerant of clay. And unlike Robinia, which they resemble, bits
don't break off them easily in high winds!

Thanks Sacha. I've never heard of it, but it looks fine to me. I like
it's mop-head shape, but don't what the Junior Management will make of it.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...

Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

Have a look at Sambucus 'Black Lace' looks like an Acer but being an elder
grows pretty much anywhere. (don't know the answer to actual question as I
don't have clay soil)

Nor do I, but I can disrecommend Cotinus coggryia. I grow it, but it
has suffered badly from the recent wet years, even on my sandy soil.
It is a drought-lover.

I had an Acer palmatum, but it didn't even last that long. They are
definitely delicate - Sambucus sounds a much better bet.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23/07/2012 09:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on
top of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep
and 30 across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum
atropurpureum (as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It lasted
3 years, but was never happy, and finally died last winter. I guess
there could have been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour and
interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and deeper
before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees
in that situation?




There is a Physocarpus growing near me on London clay, also on a newish
building site. It seems to be reasonably healthy. If you click on the
third link below, you will (should!) see another Physocarpus with a
lovely arching habit, which may please your daughter since she likes the
cut-leaf maples, may of which arch gracefully.

There are also links to two other suggestions for your consideration:

http://www.floraselect.co.uk/Sambucus-nigra-Black-Lace

http://www.shootgardening.co.uk/plant/prunus-x-cistena

http://www.finegardening.com/plantgu...-ninebark.aspx

Do make sure you plant with lots of good compost. This will help the
plant establish a decent root system before it ventures forth and
discovers your lousy - and limey - clay soil.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 23/07/2012 12:34, Janet wrote:
In article , lid
says...

On 23/07/2012 10:37, Charlie Pridham wrote:

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on top
of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep and 30
across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum atropurpureum
(as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It lasted 3 years, but
was never happy, and finally died last winter. I guess there could have
been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour and
interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and deeper
before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees in
that situation?

--

Jeff

Have a look at Sambucus 'Black Lace' looks like an Acer but being an elder
grows pretty much anywhere. (don't know the answer to actual question as I
don't have clay soil)

I grow Sambucus "Black Lace" in clay soil, and consider it a really
attractive plant. I did consider it, but in a couple of years a small
boy crawling around the garden will not make mum happy when he squashes
the fruits all over himself and then the carpet!

IME birds take all the fruit as soon as its ripe so the chances of him
crawling on fallen berries is quite small

Mine has never fruited that well, but I've not seen the birds take it.

--

Jeff

On 23/07/2012 12:51, Spider wrote:
On 23/07/2012 09:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
Anyone experience of growing it in lousy clay soil? The position is a
couple of metres from corner 2-metre high south/south-east facing brick
walls in south Hampshire.

The garden is at a 4-years old new-build house (ie builder's rubble on
top of clay subsoil...). I originally dug out a hole about 25 cm deep
and 30 across, filled with good JI3, and put in an Acer palmatum
atropurpureum (as my daughter likes the colour and leaf form). It lasted
3 years, but was never happy, and finally died last winter. I guess
there could have been a sump effect.

I wondered about replacing it with another maple, but it's a fairly
expensive way to kill a plant. Looking around, Physocarpus opulifolius
"Lady in red" seems a reasonable choice as a substitute. Good colour and
interesting leaf shape. I'll make the hole a little bigger and deeper
before I put anything in.

Any other suggestions for small/medium brown/purple-leaved shrubs/trees
in that situation?


There is a Physocarpus growing near me on London clay, also on a newish
building site. It seems to be reasonably healthy. If you click on the
third link below, you will (should!) see another Physocarpus with a
lovely arching habit, which may please your daughter since she likes the
cut-leaf maples, may of which arch gracefully.

There are also links to two other suggestions for your consideration:

http://www.floraselect.co.uk/Sambucus-nigra-Black-Lace

http://www.shootgardening.co.uk/plant/prunus-x-cistena

http://www.finegardening.com/plantgu...-ninebark.aspx

Thanks for the link.

But, according to it (and quite a few other websites) I was surprised to
find that Physocarpus is poisonous in all its parts. That's not
something I would ever had expected, as "poisonous" and "Rosaceae" are
not something I usually put together (other than for some cyanogenic
seeds). The Prunus x cisterna also looks nice, but its common name
(sand cherry) seems to suggest that it won't like heavy clay soil. And
it's about as "cheap" as acers of a similar size...

Do make sure you plant with lots of good compost. This will help the
plant establish a decent root system before it ventures forth and
discovers your lousy - and limey - clay soil.

I'm slowly working towards the idea that a much bigger hole with
well-draining soil will be required, if I want anything which normally
likes good drainage to survive.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

But, according to it (and quite a few other websites) I was surprised to
find that Physocarpus is poisonous in all its parts. That's not
something I would ever had expected, as "poisonous" and "Rosaceae" are
not something I usually put together (other than for some cyanogenic
seeds).

That's true, but another exception is common laurel. Whenever I
prune and shred my cotoneaster, there is a powerful smell of bitter
almonds, which makes me think that eating its leaves might be a
mistake :-)

I'm slowly working towards the idea that a much bigger hole with
well-draining soil will be required, if I want anything which normally
likes good drainage to survive.

Grrk. In clay soil, even that doesn't help, as the hole just fills
with water. You need some way to take it away from the bottom of
the hole.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

That's true, but another exception is common laurel. Whenever I
prune and shred my cotoneaster, there is a powerful smell of bitter
almonds, which makes me think that eating its leaves might be a
mistake :-)

Laurel

All parts of the laurel are poisonous, though there are few reported cases of serious illness. The berries are the most likely to attract children. A case in Bolton in 2000 involved a child being taken to hospital with drowsiness which was diagnosed as having been caused by eating or chewing a laurel berry. However, there is no doubt it is extremely dangerous if very much is eaten as it contains cyanide.

The leaves and stems contain small quantities of cyanide. Bundles of crushed leaves were used in ancient times to poison wells. Emperor Nero used laurel water to poison the wells of his enemies in Rome.

Laurel water (distilled from the fresh leaves of the laurel) was used in Victorian times as a medicine. However, there is a case of a death reported when it was mistaken for an alcoholic spirit and drunk by a chemist's cleaner. Effectively, it contains hydrogen cyanide.

Crushed leaves were used by butterfly collectors (in a closed jar) to kill the butterflies.

Commentators advise against burning the leaves and clippings as they also give off cyanide. It would be wise not to do so or to keep well away from the smoke.

There are cases, however, where people have become ill through inhaling the vapours from the shredded leaves, including professional gardeners who have transported the shredded leaves and branches in an enclosed van. It would be advisable not to shred laurel leaves.