I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in the
UK.

As many gardeners head out to their gardens and allotments to enjoy
the warm weather, experts are warning them to wash their hands after
using compost, particularly before eating or smoking.

Take steps

"Gardening is a very healthy hobby but like anything in life there's a
few risks," said Dr Martin Donaghy, medical director of Health
Protection Scotland.

"Over the past five years we've had three confirmed cases of
Legionella longbeachae, plus two 'probable' and one 'possible' so we
do need to take steps to reduce the risk even further."

Doctors all over the UK are being urged to be alert for a link with
gardening if they see patients with unusual pneumonia.

Symptoms of Legionella longbeachae include headaches, diarrhoea or a
dry cough followed by pneumonia.

Most people recover after treatment with antibiotics and Dr Donaghy
said other cases may have gone unreported.

"One of the features of this phenomenon is that we've only seen it in
Scotland," he said.

"We're working closely with colleagues in England to find out the
reasons for that.

The exceptional rarity of these cases would seem to indicate that any
associated risks are exceedingly minimal�

"Are our services better at picking it up, or is it something to do
with the nature of compost up here?

"We've got no evidence it's anything to do with the compost so we
think it's more to do with being better at picking it up."

Like all forms of Legionnaire's disease, longbeachae is transmitted
via very small droplets of water in the air.

All those who have contracted the illness so far were very keen
gardeners, using different brands of compost.

Specialists are now investigating whether recent changes to compost
formulas might be to blame as manufacturers move away from traditional
peat-based growing media.

Global analysis

Health Protection Scotland is in discussions with the Scottish
government on whether Australian-style warning labels should be
recommended to manufacturers.

A spokesman for the Growing Media Association said: "Since 1990, of
the 12 reported cases of Legionella potentially connected to the
longbeachae microbe in Great Britain, only three are thought to be
related to gardening.

"In the same period, the UK public has used well over a billion bags
of compost.

"The exceptional rarity of these cases would seem to indicate that any
associated risks are exceedingly minimal."

The spokesman added: "Nevertheless, the growing media industry is
committed to acting in a responsible manner on this important issue
and is therefore conducting a detailed global analysis of the
situation.

"For the moment, appropriate precautionary/hygiene measures are
unclear, an observation supported by Health Protection Scotland."

A spokesperson for the Association of Organics Recycling added that
compost is routinely heated to at least 60C for 48 hours as part of
the manufacturing process, which is considerably hotter than the
preferred temperature for Legionella bacteria.

"Pendrag0n" wrote in message
...
I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in the
UK.

As many gardeners head out to their gardens and allotments to enjoy
the warm weather, experts are warning them to wash their hands after
using compost, particularly before eating or smoking.

So, health advice in Scotland. Smoke, but wash your hands first. Brilliant.

Steve

"shazzbat" wrote in
:


"Pendrag0n" wrote in message
...
I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in
the UK.

As many gardeners head out to their gardens and allotments to enjoy
the warm weather, experts are warning them to wash their hands after
using compost, particularly before eating or smoking.

So, health advice in Scotland. Smoke, but wash your hands first.
Brilliant.

Steve




I think you have got it! Well done you. Top of the class, though I would
have never guessed you gave advice openly, like this. How unselfish of
you to share your concerns now.

On 29/05/2012 11:19, Pendrag0n wrote:
I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

And how exactly is that supposed to prevent the spread of a lung disease
that is carried by airborne aerosols?

"We've got no evidence it's anything to do with the compost so we
think it's more to do with being better at picking it up."

Like all forms of Legionnaire's disease, longbeachae is transmitted
via very small droplets of water in the air.

All those who have contracted the illness so far were very keen
gardeners, using different brands of compost.

If the threat was from salmonella or anthrax then their advice would
make sense. Odd that the new growing media have this problem...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
says...

So, health advice in Scotland. Smoke, but wash your hands first. Brilliant.

Smoking in public buildings was banned in Scotland, long before it was in
England.

Janet

"Pendrag0n" wrote (BIG SNIP))

I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in the
UK.


Funny but I was just talking to an older nurseryman (Dunkirk Nursery, Ripley
Road, Egham, excellent for bedding and veg plants) and we were discussing
the modern composts. He uses Levingtons Professional with some added
ingredients of his own, it's basically a peat based compost and he gets
castigated by some customers for using it. However we both agreed the new
composted rubbish composts are just that with bits of plastic and sticks
common. They should really be sterilised before sale for the health of the
plants let alone the gardener, he's even heard a rumour of trials to make
composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage sludge, would anyone want to
handle that?
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 5/29/2012 11:04 AM, Bob Hobden wrote:

Funny but I was just talking to an older nurseryman (Dunkirk Nursery,
Ripley Road, Egham, excellent for bedding and veg plants) and we were
discussing the modern composts. He uses Levingtons Professional with
some added ingredients of his own, it's basically a peat based compost
and he gets castigated by some customers for using it. However we both
agreed the new composted rubbish composts are just that with bits of
plastic and sticks common. They should really be sterilised before sale
for the health of the plants let alone the gardener, he's even heard a
rumour of trials to make composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage
sludge, would anyone want to handle that?

Milwaukee has been treating its sewage and selling it as fertiliser for
years.

http://www.milorganite.com/en/Using-Milorganite/What-is-It.aspx

"S Viemeister" wrote .

Bob Hobden wrote:

Funny but I was just talking to an older nurseryman (Dunkirk Nursery,
Ripley Road, Egham, excellent for bedding and veg plants) and we were
discussing the modern composts. He uses Levingtons Professional with
some added ingredients of his own, it's basically a peat based compost
and he gets castigated by some customers for using it. However we both
agreed the new composted rubbish composts are just that with bits of
plastic and sticks common. They should really be sterilised before sale
for the health of the plants let alone the gardener, he's even heard a
rumour of trials to make composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage
sludge, would anyone want to handle that?

Milwaukee has been treating its sewage and selling it as fertiliser for
years.

http://www.milorganite.com/en/Using-Milorganite/What-is-It.aspx


This bit interested me..."at temperatures ranging from 900� - 1200�F"... so
it is sterilised before sale, something I believe these modern composts also
need. Last year I opened a bag only to find lumps of white mushroom type
growth and had to sieve it all out before use together with the twigs and
bits of rag etc, makes one wonder what else is in it.

--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"Pendrag0n" wrote (BIG SNIP))

I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in the
UK.


Funny but I was just talking to an older nurseryman (Dunkirk Nursery,
Ripley Road, Egham, excellent for bedding and veg plants) and we were
discussing the modern composts. He uses Levingtons Professional with some
added ingredients of his own, it's basically a peat based compost and he
gets castigated by some customers for using it. However we both agreed the
new composted rubbish composts are just that with bits of plastic and
sticks common. They should really be sterilised before sale for the health
of the plants let alone the gardener, he's even heard a rumour of trials
to make composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage sludge, would
anyone want to handle that?
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK


"" (Dunkirk Nursery, Ripley Road, Egham, excellent for bedding and veg
plants) ""

TUT TUT that's not advertising on urg is it??? ;-)

Sole rights reserved on that you know

Mike


--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

On Tuesday, 29 May 2012 19:14:13 UTC+1, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 16:04:43 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

he's even heard a rumour of trials to make
composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage sludge, would anyone want to
handle that?

You're too squeamish! When my BH lived in Gloucester, ~40 years ago,
she and her then husband used to get sewage sludge from the local
sewage works. There were great piles of the stuff, and the two of them
just shoveled it into bags before loading them into the car. Lovely
stuff, she said, very friable, but it always produced a crop of tomato
plants from the seeds in it that survived the passage through people's
guts!

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales

Also about 45 yrs ago the nursery I was working on at the time tried some sewage sludge on one of it's fields. We stopped when signs of heavy metal contamination were seen, not to mention the unmentionable objects strewn about the field embarassing the female staff. This was in a heavily industrialised urban area.
OTOH a manhole overflowed into our garden about 18 months ago dumping the sewage from our house and the 5 neighbours into one of our borders. We got a nice crop of tomatoes from amongst the roses and other border plants. Everything else looked like it was on steroids and those plant still look good now. It didn't smell too good for a while.

Rod

On 29/05/2012 19:14, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 16:04:43 +0100, "Bob
wrote:

he's even heard a rumour of trials to make
composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage sludge, would anyone want to
handle that?

You're too squeamish! When my BH lived in Gloucester, ~40 years ago,
she and her then husband used to get sewage sludge from the local
sewage works. There were great piles of the stuff, and the two of them
just shoveled it into bags before loading them into the car. Lovely
stuff, she said, very friable, but it always produced a crop of tomato
plants from the seeds in it that survived the passage through people's
guts!


In the old days they would go around Hong Kong collecting "Night soil"
which was then taken to "The New Territories" where it was used as
manure for the fruit and veg grown to supply Hong Kong.
This went on into the 60's.
When I was young we would dig out a trench and empty the cesspit into it
by bucket and recover with soil, this would then be where we grew our
runner beans and peas.
David @ the parched end of Swansea Bay

On Tue, 29 May 2012 19:55:20 +0100, David Hill wrote:

In the old days they would go around Hong Kong collecting "Night soil"
which was then taken to "The New Territories" where it was used as
manure for the fruit and veg grown to supply Hong Kong.
This went on into the 60's.

When I travelled around rural China in late '92 several public loos I
used emptied straight into a paddy field.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
says...

On 29/05/2012 19:14, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2012 16:04:43 +0100, "Bob
wrote:

he's even heard a rumour of trials to make
composts out of chopped straw mixed with sewage sludge, would anyone want to
handle that?

You're too squeamish! When my BH lived in Gloucester, ~40 years ago,
she and her then husband used to get sewage sludge from the local
sewage works. There were great piles of the stuff, and the two of them
just shoveled it into bags before loading them into the car. Lovely
stuff, she said, very friable, but it always produced a crop of tomato
plants from the seeds in it that survived the passage through people's
guts!


In the old days they would go around Hong Kong collecting "Night soil"
which was then taken to "The New Territories" where it was used as
manure for the fruit and veg grown to supply Hong Kong.
This went on into the 60's.

Later than that. I used a rural Chinese communal public lav in the 80's
which was a long , immaculately tiled shallow channel where a whole row of
people squatted nose to tail, so to speak. (Because western females were
present, male users were briefly excluded). The urine drained off into a
collector; and if anyone poohed a little old lady rushed over and scooped
it up out of the channel with a little shovel.It all went onto the
commune's crops.

My childhood home in Herefordshire in the 60's, had only a bucket in a
shed for a lav and the contents were emptied into a trench in the veg
garden. My grandfather had been rotating the sewage trench round the
garden for about 50 years, with wonderful results.

Janet








When I was young we would dig out a trench and empty the cesspit into it
by bucket and recover with soil, this would then be where we grew our
runner beans and peas.
David @ the parched end of Swansea Bay

In message , Bob Hobden
writes
"Pendrag0n" wrote (BIG SNIP))

I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in the
UK.


Funny but I was just talking to an older nurseryman (Dunkirk Nursery,
Ripley Road, Egham, excellent for bedding and veg plants) and we were
discussing the modern composts. He uses Levingtons Professional with
some added ingredients of his own, it's basically a peat based compost
and he gets castigated by some customers for using it. However we both
agreed the new composted rubbish composts are just that with bits of
plastic and sticks common. They should really be sterilised before sale
for the health of the plants let alone the gardener, he's even heard a
rumour of trials to make composts out of chopped straw mixed with
sewage sludge, would anyone want to handle that?

Yup, sounds a sensible use of resources to me (poo + straw - sounds
rather like horse manure)

--
Chris French

"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

"Pendrag0n" wrote in message
...
I suspect this go on in England a lot more but given the useless GPs
we seem to have in abundance these days it probably remnains
undiagnosed. So if you're going to catch anything do it in Oz or
Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18206191


Gardeners told 'wash off compost'By Eleanor Bradford

BBC Scotland Health Correspondent

Gardening is a healthy hobby but there are risks, says Dr Donaghy
Gardeners are being warned to wash their hands after using compost
following a series of Legionella cases in Scotland over the past five
years.

One man has died and five others have become ill after contracting a
rare strain called 'Legionella longbeachae', which appears to come
from compost.

The unusual strain is well known in Australia and New Zealand, where
bags of compost carry warning labels.

But these are the first cases linked to compost to be confirmed in the
UK.

As many gardeners head out to their gardens and allotments to enjoy
the warm weather, experts are warning them to wash their hands after
using compost, particularly before eating or smoking.

So, health advice in Scotland. Smoke, but wash your hands first.
Brilliant.

Steve

That's unlikely to have been said.