On Feb 20, 10:56*am, "The Todal" wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message

...



Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that high
fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II diabetes and
hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that smoking does not
cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various salt manufacturers
associations are saying that you should eat shed loads of salt - could it
be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too much
modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be deficient
today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far too much
added salt in their diet.

I agree that the average person may consume too much salt. This fact
is the reason why they have a recommened maximum and not a minimum.
Sodium is essential for life.

All known higher lifeforms require a subtle and complex electrolyte
balance between the intracellular and extracellular environment. In
particular, the maintenance of precise osmotic gradients of
electrolytes is important. Such gradients affect and regulate the
hydration of the body as well as blood pH, and are critical for nerve
and muscle function. Various mechanisms exist in living species that
keep the concentrations of different electrolytes under tight control.

Both muscle tissue and neurons are considered electric tissues of the
body. Muscles and neurons are activated by electrolyte activity
between the extracellular fluid or interstitial fluid, and
intracellular fluid. Electrolytes may enter or leave the cell membrane
through specialized protein structures embedded in the plasma membrane
called ion channels. For example, muscle contraction is dependent upon
the presence of calcium (Ca2+), sodium (Na+), and potassium (K+).
Without sufficient levels of these key electrolytes, muscle weakness
or severe muscle contractions may occur.

Serious electrolyte disturbances, such as dehydration and
overhydration, may lead to cardiac and neurological complications and,
unless they are rapidly resolved, will result in a medical emergency.

The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that high
fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II diabetes and
hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that smoking does not
cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various salt manufacturers
associations are saying that you should eat shed loads of salt -
could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too much
modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far too
much added salt in their diet.

I don't. I eat exactly the amount I want. And I always will.

The Daily Mail is associated with scaremongering. People read too much
Daily Mail.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:39:10 -0000, "Norman Wells"
wrote:

The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that high
fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II diabetes and
hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that smoking does not
cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various salt manufacturers
associations are saying that you should eat shed loads of salt -
could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too much
modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far too
much added salt in their diet.

I don't. I eat exactly the amount I want. And I always will.

The Daily Mail is associated with scaremongering. People read too much
Daily Mail.

I agree. Too much Daily Mail is bad for you. And some people are now
going to be exposed to Sun seven days a week. That will really be
toxic.

Norman Wells wrote:
The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that
high fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II
diabetes and hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that
smoking does not cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various
salt manufacturers associations are saying that you should eat shed
loads of salt - could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too
much modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far too
much added salt in their diet.

I don't. I eat exactly the amount I want. And I always will.

Well, no you don't.

If you buy a loaf of bread or a packet of breakfast cereal or a pizza, you
can't remove some of the salt before eating these things. And there is
generally too much salt in these products because in customer surveys the
stuff with less salt is judged to be bland and less popular by customers,
and that's mainly because everyone has got used to eating a lot of salt.
Just as everyone has got used to eating a lot of sugar so people expect
sugar in their tomato ketchup, etc.

It should go without saying of course that if you are eating your dinner it
would be better not to sprinkle any additional salt on your food as this
won't confer any benefit and may very slightly increase the risk to your
health.


The Daily Mail is associated with scaremongering. People read too
much Daily Mail.

That may be true, so I never rely on the Daily Mail for advice about health.
There are more reliable sources.

http://www.worldactiononsalt.com/sal...ach/index.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8671549
http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v1.../6605993a.html

"Fuschia" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:39:10 -0000, "Norman Wells"
wrote:

The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that high
fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II diabetes and
hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that smoking does not
cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various salt manufacturers
associations are saying that you should eat shed loads of salt -
could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too much
modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far too
much added salt in their diet.

I don't. I eat exactly the amount I want. And I always will.

The Daily Mail is associated with scaremongering. People read too much
Daily Mail.

I agree. Too much Daily Mail is bad for you. And some people are now
going to be exposed to Sun seven days a week. That will really be
toxic.

You're a Guardian reader and I claim my five quid.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...e-like-twitter

So then, witch-hunted tip-top soaraway tabloid the Sun will soon be
available in a sizzling Sunday edition. Turns out the soothsayers were
mistaken: the Sun isn't dying, it's expanding. Which, ironically, is
precisely what an actual sun does when it dies. Yes, during its death
throes, our sun will swell, boiling the oceans and turning the ice caps to
steam. All life on the planet will perish, and your copy of the Sun will
burst into flames in your hands. I say hands. I mean "carbonised stumps".
What I'm saying is it'll be hot out that day, so I wouldn't bother with a
coat if I were you.

There was something slightly wonky about the hand-rubbing relish with which
some predicted the death of the Sun. Call me an organic hessian-chewing,
hummus-eating Guardianista, but I believe in reform, not capital punishment.

It's hard to cheer when a newspaper closes. Even one you're slightly scared
of, like the Daily Mail. Even though the Mail isn't technically a newspaper,
more a serialised Necronomicon. In fact it's not even printed, but scorched
on to parchment by a whispering cacodemon. The Mail can never close. It can
only choose to vacate our realm and return to the dominion in which it was
forged; a place somewhere between shadow and dusk, beyond time and space, at
the dark, howling apex of infinity. London W8 5TT.

Yet despite being a malevolent ink-and-paper succubus that will devour your
firstborn - seriously, chuck a baby at a copy of the Mail, and watch as the
paper roll its eyes back and swallows it whole - the Mail deserves its
voice. At the Leveson inquiry, when seething Daily Mail orchestrator Paul
Dacre was quizzed about Jan Moir's notorious column on the death of Stephen
Gateley, he acknowledged that she'd possibly gone too far, but added that he
"would die in a ditch" to defend a columnist's freedom of speech. Whatever
you think of Dacre, that's a brave and noble thing to say, although
disappointingly he failed to indicate precisely when he was planning on
doing it.

On Feb 20, 11:15*am, "The Todal" wrote:
Richard McKenzie wrote:
On Feb 18, 10:40 am, Mike P wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:37:29 -0800, Richard McKenzie stammered:

On Feb 18, 1:24 am, Ronald Tompkins wrote:
In every home!...Is the government hushing this dangerous chemical
up. Be warned!!

Too little Sodium Chloride in your diet is more harmful than to
much.

Feel free to sit down now and eat a kilo of salt with a spoon and
tell us what happens you utter fool.

--
Mike P

Mike

I did not say that eating too much salt was not bad for you, i stated
that having too little in your diet is actually more harmful.

I was amused to read those links which show that American salt manufacturers
and retailers are running scared and trying to disparage reports about the
dangers of eating too much salt. *We've seen the same before, with sugar.

On Feb 18, 9:40*pm, Lasher wrote:
On 18/02/2012 10:37, Richard McKenzie wrote:

On Feb 18, 1:24 am, Ronald *wrote:
In every home!...Is the government *hushing this dangerous chemical
up. * Be warned!!

Too little Sodium Chloride in your diet is more harmful than to much.

You're 100% right about that Richard! In fact high quality salt is
essential for human life and without it we would die.

And the body's homeostatic mechanism means there is no known process
by which excess salt is stored in the body.

MBQ

On 20/02/2012 12:32, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 18, 9:40 pm, wrote:
On 18/02/2012 10:37, Richard McKenzie wrote:

On Feb 18, 1:24 am, Ronald wrote:
In every home!...Is the government hushing this dangerous chemical
up. Be warned!!

Too little Sodium Chloride in your diet is more harmful than to much.

You're 100% right about that Richard! In fact high quality salt is
essential for human life and without it we would die.

And the body's homeostatic mechanism means there is no known process
by which excess salt is stored in the body.

Only up to a point - the kidneys can be overwhelmed by ludicrously high
salt intake. I knew someone at university who foolishly did it.

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/37/2/767.full

Taking the relevant paragraph from this article (note in particular the
first sentence):

"The kidney’s inability to adequately excrete salt is considered to be a
major pathogenetic component in hypertension. NO may play a role in salt
excretion by directly decreasing tubular sodium reabsorption or
indirectly through modulation of renal medullary blood flow.15 34 35 36
Ang II, however, has antinatriuretic properties because of its effects
on the renal tubules and renal blood flow plus the feedback regulation
of renin release from the macula densa.25 34 "

There is a known correlation between consuming too much salt (more than
6g /day) and high blood pressure. Even the peer reviewed literature that
the pro-salt lobby groups claim shows "limited" effects of salt on life
expectancy concede that it causes hypertension.

http://icvts.oxfordjournals.org/cont...urcetype=HWCIT

Basically because you can counteract the salt hypertension with other
drugs and that better suits the US style pill for everything mentality.
I guess in a private "health" system more pills sold is more profit.

Or on PubMEd http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11936420

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:12:21 -0000, "The Todal"
wrote:

I agree. Too much Daily Mail is bad for you. And some people are now
going to be exposed to Sun seven days a week. That will really be
toxic.

You're a Guardian reader and I claim my five quid.

No, sorry. I never buy papers.
I get my news on-line, usually from the BBC or sometimes from Sky news
site.
And I take both with a nice healthy dose of Sodium Chloride.

Fuschia wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:12:21 -0000, "The Todal"
wrote:

I agree. Too much Daily Mail is bad for you. And some people are now
going to be exposed to Sun seven days a week. That will really be
toxic.

You're a Guardian reader and I claim my five quid.

No, sorry. I never buy papers.
I get my news on-line, usually from the BBC or sometimes from Sky news
site.
And I take both with a nice healthy dose of Sodium Chloride.

Fortunately you can read the Guardian online.

Just as well, because it's horribly overpriced, especially on Saturdays.
It's a bit odd that so many of us continue to buy a daily paper.

The Todal wrote:
Norman Wells wrote:
The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that
high fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II
diabetes and hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that
smoking does not cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various
salt manufacturers associations are saying that you should eat shed
loads of salt - could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too
much modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far
too much added salt in their diet.

I don't. I eat exactly the amount I want. And I always will.

Well, no you don't.

If you buy a loaf of bread or a packet of breakfast cereal or a
pizza, you can't remove some of the salt before eating these things.
And there is generally too much salt in these products because in
customer surveys the stuff with less salt is judged to be bland and
less popular by customers, and that's mainly because everyone has got
used to eating a lot of salt. Just as everyone has got used to eating
a lot of sugar so people expect sugar in their tomato ketchup, etc.

Don't be so patronising. I'm old enough to buy the products I like the
taste of. And stuff with less salt in _is_ bland, boring and
uninteresting. So, I don't buy it. Therefore, I eat exactly the amount
of salt I want, just as I said.

I notice, and it annoys me, when salt is taken out of products I like,
and I stop buying them. Manufacturers should note that because others
are very much like me. Since all products with less salt will tend to
the bland and boring, there will be nothing to choose between them and
people will stop buying the specific brands that once had their loyalty.

It should go without saying of course that if you are eating your
dinner it would be better not to sprinkle any additional salt on your
food as this won't confer any benefit and may very slightly increase
the risk to your health.

I sprinkle salt on my dinner when I want to enhance the flavour. That's
a very considerable benefit in my view, since enjoying food is one of
the main incentives for eating it.

If you want to obediently follow the Food Police and always do what they
say is good for you, generally with very little scientific evidence to
back it up, you do that. But in my lifetime I've seen most foods
encouraged, then vilified, then encouraged again. Just to take a recent
example, who knows now whether eggs are good for you?

I am deeply suspicious of 'nutritionists' most of whom select the trials
they like to prove a point they want to make, which has to be different
from previous practice, otherwise they're redundant. It's unregulated
pseudo-science, and I don't want any part of it, thank you.

"Norman Wells" wrote in message
...
The Todal wrote:
Norman Wells wrote:
The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that
high fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II
diabetes and hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that
smoking does not cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various
salt manufacturers associations are saying that you should eat shed
loads of salt - could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too
much modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far
too much added salt in their diet.

I don't. I eat exactly the amount I want. And I always will.

Well, no you don't.

If you buy a loaf of bread or a packet of breakfast cereal or a
pizza, you can't remove some of the salt before eating these things.
And there is generally too much salt in these products because in
customer surveys the stuff with less salt is judged to be bland and
less popular by customers, and that's mainly because everyone has got
used to eating a lot of salt. Just as everyone has got used to eating
a lot of sugar so people expect sugar in their tomato ketchup, etc.

Don't be so patronising.

Don't be so defensive. A moment's thought would tell you that you are wrong
when you say you eat exactly the amount of salt that you want. If you are
eating a sandwich from a loaf of bread that contains a lot of salt, you
don't stop eating it when you've had exactly enough salt. That way, you go
hungry.


I'm old enough to buy the products I like the taste of. And stuff with
less salt in _is_ bland, boring and uninteresting. So, I don't buy it.
Therefore, I eat exactly the amount of salt I want, just as I said.

However, with proper guidance and education you could learn to buy stuff
with less salt in it, and add the salt when you really think it's needed.

As many reports have shown, ready-made sandwiches from Pret a Manger or
Subway or M&S often contain far too much salt sprinkled over the
ingredients. You would probably say that if they have too much salt for your
taste you won't buy them. That isn't a good way of ensuring that the public
eats a more healthy diet and has less incidence of stomach cancer, kidney
disease, high blood pressure, strokes etc. Relying on the good sense and
tastebuds of the British population is a recipe for disaster.


I notice, and it annoys me, when salt is taken out of products I like, and
I stop buying them. Manufacturers should note that because others are
very much like me. Since all products with less salt will tend to the
bland and boring, there will be nothing to choose between them and people
will stop buying the specific brands that once had their loyalty.

Exactly so. You are an addict, just as surely as if you were on regular
doses of Valium. If you ever make your own bread you will find that it
tastes bland unless you double the salt specified in the recipe. That isn't
because the recipe is wrong. It's because your learned sense of taste is
wrong.


It should go without saying of course that if you are eating your
dinner it would be better not to sprinkle any additional salt on your
food as this won't confer any benefit and may very slightly increase
the risk to your health.

I sprinkle salt on my dinner when I want to enhance the flavour. That's a
very considerable benefit in my view, since enjoying food is one of the
main incentives for eating it.

I wouldn't deprive you of that pleasure.


If you want to obediently follow the Food Police and always do what they
say is good for you, generally with very little scientific evidence to
back it up, you do that.

It isn't just about me and you and our personal preferences. Society won't
care when you are in a nursing home recovering from a stroke caused by high
blood pressure caused by salt. You are expendable, Norman. What we need is
a nationwide public health initiative to make the population more healthy
and less dependent on the NHS. Just as we abolished cholera by preventing
people using water contaminated with sewage. We didn't say "everyone feel
free to drink this delicious fecal water if that's what they like, and damn
the politically correct brigade.

Carry on eating your salt, and enjoy it. When you do get ill, I assume that
you'll practice what you preach and pay for all your healthcare needs
because your illness was caused by your careless eating habits. I'm sure I
can find you a medical practitioner to certify as much.


But in my lifetime I've seen most foods encouraged, then vilified, then
encouraged again. Just to take a recent example, who knows now whether
eggs are good for you?

Or wine, or whiskey, or full fat milk, or butter. With so much uncertainty
in this world, let's go back to basics and eat and drink whatever takes our
fancy because nature knows best. Not.

On Feb 18, 4:30*pm, charles wrote:
In article
,
* *harry wrote:

On Feb 18, 1:24 am, Ronald Tompkins wrote:
In every home!...Is the government *hushing this dangerous chemical
up. * Be warned!!
Don't forget that dangerous acetic acid!

and hydric dioxide - terribel stuff -


I think the correct name is dihydrous oxide.

On Feb 20, 11:51*am, Fuschia wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:39:10 -0000, "Norman Wells"
wrote:





The Todal wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

Yeah. Right. They look about as authoritative as the claims that high
fructose corn syrup is good for you (if you want type II diabetes and
hypertension) or tobacco industry stuff proving that smoking does not
cause cancer. Why I am not surprised that various salt manufacturers
associations are saying that you should eat shed loads of salt -
could it be that they profit from increased sales?

Some dietary salt is essential, but it is also true that far too much
modern processed food contains way too much salt (and sugar).

Sodium is so common in the environment that it is rare to be
deficient today unless you do something very silly on a fad diet.

Sodium chloride is associated with stomach cancer. People eat far too
much added salt in their diet.

I don't. *I eat exactly the amount I want. *And I always will.

The Daily Mail is associated with scaremongering. *People read too much
Daily Mail.

I agree. Too much Daily Mail is bad for you. And some people are now
going to be exposed to Sun seven days a week. That will really be
toxic.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Will anybody buy it when the Beano is availale?

harry wrote:
On Feb 18, 4:30 pm, charles wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:

On Feb 18, 1:24 am, Ronald Tompkins wrote:
In every home!...Is the government hushing this dangerous chemical
up. Be warned!!
Don't forget that dangerous acetic acid!

and hydric dioxide - terribel stuff -


I think the correct name is dihydrous oxide.

No it isn't.

What a pity those who seek to blind with science don't actually know any
themselves.