I obtained a couple of Griselina Littoralis shrubs (a.k.a. New Zealand
Privet) about 9 months ago. Shortly after aquiring them, I repotted them
into much larger pots and they did fine for six months. Then I repotted
them again into even larger pots using John Innes No.3. This was about two
months ago.

Very recently, I have noticed that many of the leaves are turning brown,
starting at the leaf tip. A few have turned entirely brown and are easy to
pull off. Some are turning yellowish. As this is supposedly an evergreen, I
am taking this to be a sign of some serious problem.

Here are three photos:

http://www.aalife.com/gris.jpg
http://www.aalife.com/gris1.jpg
http://www.aalife.com/gris2.jpg

Can anyone suggest what the problem is? My book on shrubs suggested frost
damage or root waterlogging. We have not had any frost, and while I have
occasionally soaked the soil thoroughly when watering, there are holes in
the bottom of the planters, so I wouldn't have thought that waterlogging
was an issue. John Innes No.3 is fairly well-draining, isnt it?

I know these are inexpensive plants, but they serve an important purpose
for me - or will, when they grow bigger...

Thank you...

Al

Sacha wrote in :

Only a guess but I suspect you've potted them on too swiftly and their
still quite young roots are drowning! Even if you're letting them
drain between watering, they're still hanging about in very wet compost
and too much of it. As the weather is getting colder, the compost
isn't drying out quickly, either.

Thanks, Sacha. If you are right about this, can I save them from dying? Is
there an easy remedy, such as preventing further watering for a while? I
could move them indoors for a few weeks to allow the compost to dry out.

TIA

AL

On 17 Nov 2011 12:12:00 GMT, "AL_n" wrote:

Sacha wrote in :

Only a guess but I suspect you've potted them on too swiftly and their
still quite young roots are drowning! Even if you're letting them
drain between watering, they're still hanging about in very wet compost
and too much of it. As the weather is getting colder, the compost
isn't drying out quickly, either.

Thanks, Sacha. If you are right about this, can I save them from dying? Is
there an easy remedy, such as preventing further watering for a while? I
could move them indoors for a few weeks to allow the compost to dry out.

TIA

AL
I'll add to Sacha's comment - it does sound like waterlogging - by
suggesting that you carefully repot them. JI No 3 is a very claggy
compost on its own; if its waterlogged it can really suffocate the
roots and, as it dries, can cake hard around them. It really needs a
lot of added grit or similar (I use Perlite as it's lighter; some
people use Vermiculite but grit's good to weigh the pot down in a
windy location). Using JI no 2 would probably be better at the moment.

An added problem may be that the pot is standing right on top of a
hard surface and this will further impede drainage - if you can move
the pot onto, say, a gravel area or lift it off the slabs on pot
stands, that will help a lot.

Check that it doesn't become pot-bound, though. Grisselina, once
established, can be a bit of a thuggish grower and you may find it
needs repotting into a much larger tub early next year.

Cheers, Jake
==========================================
Proud to be a member of the Taffy Trio
along with Dave and Bill, especially as
the East End, where I'm at, is the drier one

Sacha wrote in :

Can't improve on that! I'd put it back into its last pot, in fresh
compost, as Jake suggests, and water sparingly now that winter is
here.
If you do have to water, it's better to do so in the morning, rather
than having pots stand about wet, all through the night. But
definitely, do ensure good drainage. Yours is an example of why
plants get potted on gradually, something often asked on here. Too
much wet compost 'drowns' them.



Thanks to you both. This is educational for me as I'm no gardening expert.
I took your advice and repotted back to the previous pot. I used some
compost mixed 50/50 with some sand and gravel which was surplus from a
concretete-making project.

When I removed the shrups from the large planters, the roots didn't seem at
all waterlogged. They looked like my idea of optimally moist. I couldn't
squeese any water out of the compost using my fingers. Anyway, there was a
period of a couple of weeks when they could have been waterlogged. After I
copiously watered them, it did rain off and on, for about a week. I wonder
if that was the cause.

I did not have any gravel or stones in the bottom of the pot. Perhaps I
should have included them to improve drainage.

The older (smaller) pots have castellations on the bottom, to prevent the
'standing in water' issue that you mentioned. I hope this does the trick.
I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks again,

Al

On 17 Nov 2011 16:45:10 GMT, "AL_n" wrote:

Sacha wrote in :

Can't improve on that! I'd put it back into its last pot, in fresh
compost, as Jake suggests, and water sparingly now that winter is
here.
If you do have to water, it's better to do so in the morning, rather
than having pots stand about wet, all through the night. But
definitely, do ensure good drainage. Yours is an example of why
plants get potted on gradually, something often asked on here. Too
much wet compost 'drowns' them.



Thanks to you both. This is educational for me as I'm no gardening expert.
I took your advice and repotted back to the previous pot. I used some
compost mixed 50/50 with some sand and gravel which was surplus from a
concretete-making project.

When I removed the shrups from the large planters, the roots didn't seem at
all waterlogged. They looked like my idea of optimally moist. I couldn't
squeese any water out of the compost using my fingers. Anyway, there was a
period of a couple of weeks when they could have been waterlogged. After I
copiously watered them, it did rain off and on, for about a week. I wonder
if that was the cause.

I did not have any gravel or stones in the bottom of the pot. Perhaps I
should have included them to improve drainage.

The older (smaller) pots have castellations on the bottom, to prevent the
'standing in water' issue that you mentioned. I hope this does the trick.
I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks again,

Al

That you got them back into their previous pots says a lot.
Grisselina's a strong plant but it will help if you can keep the pots
out of freeze-up thru the winter. Unheated greenhouse/conservatory if
you have one; otherwise a few layers of bubble-wrap around the pots.

Check them in about March and if you see roots poking through the
bottom of the pots or, when teasing the rootball out of the pots you
see loads of roots wrapped around the outside, repot them up into the
next size of pot, or ground-plant, using as close to the same mix of
compost as now (though forget the sand - it won't help that much with
a JI-based compost). Tease any circular roots out a bit first.

The secret in potting on is to make the immediate surround of the
rootball as close to the existing as possible (hence why we dig a much
bigger hole when ground planting and use a planting mix to fill it).
Think of it as like you getting out of bed on a cold morning - it's a
lot easier if the heating's on and you're not getting out of that warm
bed into an ice box! The roots are more willing to grow if what
they're growing into is close to what they're leaving.

HTH

Cheers, Jake
==========================================
Proud to be a member of the Taffy Trio
along with Dave and Bill, especially as
the East End, where I'm at, is the drier one

On Nov 17, 4:45*pm, "AL_n" wrote:
Sacha wrote :

Can't improve on that! I'd put it back into its last pot, in fresh
compost, as Jake suggests, and water sparingly now that winter is
here.
*If you do have to water, it's better to do so in the morning, rather
than having pots stand about wet, all through the night. But
definitely, do ensure good drainage. *Yours is an example of why
plants get potted on gradually, something often asked on here. *Too
much wet compost 'drowns' them.

Thanks to you both. This is educational for me as I'm no gardening expert..
I took your advice and repotted back to the previous pot. I used some
compost mixed 50/50 with some sand and gravel which was surplus from a
concretete-making project.

When I removed the shrups from the large planters, the roots didn't seem at
all waterlogged. They looked like my idea of optimally moist. I couldn't
squeese any water out of the compost using my fingers. Anyway, there was a
period of a couple of weeks when they could have been waterlogged. After I
copiously watered them, it did rain off and on, for about a week. I wonder
if that was the cause.

I did not have any gravel or stones in the bottom of the pot. Perhaps I
should have included them to improve drainage.

The older (smaller) pots have castellations on the bottom, to prevent the
'standing in water' issue that you mentioned. I hope this does the trick.
I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks again,

Al

But did the roots look to be in good condition? If the opinions of
Sacha & Jake are correct - and I think they very probably are, then
picking about the roots with your fingers you'd find that a lot of the
roots were soft and rotten.
My main experience with Griselinia is growing as a seaside hedge in
rather harsh sharply drained conditions so I'd agree with the others
that possible waterlogging is the most likely cause of your problems.
But now a couple of comments not directly related to your case.
The last repotting you did was on the late side for using such a
nutrient rich compost as JI3, I wouldn't repot containers much after
the end of August anyway, the plants need to grow into the compost
before it gets cold and wet.
Sadly there is now no such thing as John Innes compost unless you make
your own according to the JI Institute specification which was very
strict about the definition and treatment of the loam in the compost
mix. *Loam and soil are not the same thing* and JI is supposed to be a
loam based compost.
Current commercial 'JI composts' use any old soil that's available,
usually some exeedingly fine sandy/silty stuff with practically no
organic component and no crumb structure. That makes the compost very
dense and clarty - it's airless and stay too wet.
The loam in JI compost should be made by stacking and composting
inverted turves grown on a fairly heavy soil with plenty of humus and
structure about it, this is then sterilised and shredded (but not too
finely) to use in the compost and the result is a fairly open well
drained medium.

Rod

Rod wrote in news:26b4c748-39a9-419c-a4a1-
:

But did the roots look to be in good condition? If the opinions of
Sacha & Jake are correct - and I think they very probably are, then
picking about the roots with your fingers you'd find that a lot of the
roots were soft and rotten.

I roots I could see looked OK to me, although I didn't actually feel them
for soggyness, etc. Thanks for the tip about bubble-wrap, and emulating the
original compost when repotting.

If these don't survive the winter, due to my mistakes, I'll buy
replacements, next spring.

Al

Jake Nospam@invalid wrote in
:

On 17 Nov 2011 16:45:10 GMT, "AL_n" wrote:

Sacha wrote in
:

Can't improve on that! I'd put it back into its last pot, in fresh
compost, as Jake suggests, and water sparingly now that winter is
here.
If you do have to water, it's better to do so in the morning,
rather
than having pots stand about wet, all through the night. But
definitely, do ensure good drainage. Yours is an example of why
plants get potted on gradually, something often asked on here. Too
much wet compost 'drowns' them.



Thanks to you both. This is educational for me as I'm no gardening
expert. I took your advice and repotted back to the previous pot. I
used some compost mixed 50/50 with some sand and gravel which was
surplus from a concretete-making project.

When I removed the shrups from the large planters, the roots didn't
seem at all waterlogged. They looked like my idea of optimally moist.
I couldn't squeese any water out of the compost using my fingers.
Anyway, there was a period of a couple of weeks when they could have
been waterlogged. After I copiously watered them, it did rain off and
on, for about a week. I wonder if that was the cause.

I did not have any gravel or stones in the bottom of the pot. Perhaps
I should have included them to improve drainage.

The older (smaller) pots have castellations on the bottom, to prevent
the 'standing in water' issue that you mentioned. I hope this does
the trick. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks again,

Al

That you got them back into their previous pots says a lot.
Grisselina's a strong plant but it will help if you can keep the pots
out of freeze-up thru the winter. Unheated greenhouse/conservatory if
you have one; otherwise a few layers of bubble-wrap around the pots.

I will take your bubble-wrap advice, as I don't have a greenhouse, and
these potted shrubs perform a vital role of stopping my french windows
from flying open too far!


Check them in about March and if you see roots poking through the
bottom of the pots or, when teasing the rootball out of the pots you
see loads of roots wrapped around the outside, repot them up into the
next size of pot, or ground-plant, using as close to the same mix of
compost as now (though forget the sand - it won't help that much with
a JI-based compost). Tease any circular roots out a bit first.

The secret in potting on is to make the immediate surround of the
rootball as close to the existing as possible

Thanks for the tips. I actually re-used the same compost when I
repostted, so hopefully the added sand and gravel won't upset the plant
too much.

Al

Rod wrote in
:

But did the roots look to be in good condition?

They lookd healthy enough to me, although I didn't actually feel them for
softness/soggyness.

The last repotting you did was on the late side for using such a
nutrient rich compost as JI3, I wouldn't repot containers much after
the end of August anyway, the plants need to grow into the compost
before it gets cold and wet.

I see... I hope they can cope with my repotting operation of today.
Actually, after I knocked off the more recent compost, (the John Innes No3)
what I was left with was more or less the original rootball with newer
roots sticking out in all directions (those that had grown ito the newer
compost from my previous repotting efforts.

I hope they survive, but if not, I'll have to replace them next Spring.

Al

On Nov 17, 9:01*pm, "AL_n" wrote:
Rod wrote :

But did the roots look to be in good condition?

They lookd healthy enough to me, although I didn't actually feel them for
softness/soggyness.

The last repotting you did was on the late side for using such a
nutrient rich compost as JI3, I wouldn't repot containers much after
the end of August anyway, the plants need to grow into the compost
before it gets cold and wet.

I see... I hope they can cope with my repotting operation of today.
Actually, after I knocked off the more recent compost, (the John Innes No3)
what I was left with was more or less the original rootball with newer
roots sticking out in all directions (those that had grown ito the newer
compost from my previous repotting efforts.

I hope they survive, but if not, I'll have to replace them next Spring.

Al

If you suspect that the roots have started to rot, then smell them.

On Nov 17, 11:00*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-11-17 21:01:55 +0000, "AL_n" said:





Rod wrote in
:

But did the roots look to be in good condition?

They lookd healthy enough to me, although I didn't actually feel them for
softness/soggyness.

The last repotting you did was on the late side for using such a
nutrient rich compost as JI3, I wouldn't repot containers much after
the end of August anyway, the plants need to grow into the compost
before it gets cold and wet.

I see... I hope they can cope with my repotting operation of today.
Actually, after I knocked off the more recent compost, (the John Innes No3)
what I was left with was more or less the original rootball with newer
roots sticking out in all directions (those that had grown ito the newer
compost from my previous repotting efforts.

I hope they survive, but if not, I'll have to replace them next Spring.

Al

Personally, I wouldn't use bubble wrap but would use horticultural
fleece. *I say this only because some people have reported bubble wrap
sticking to leaves and damaging them and yours are struggling a bit
already. *Others do use it without problems, so the choice is yours.
Now, *just wait and see. *To be frank, there's nothing more you can do
for now, I'm afraid.
--
Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Am I missing something?
I havn't seen any referance to bubble wrap till you said you wouldn't
use it Sacha.
I am wondering if the plant dried out at some stage rather than
waterloging.

Dave Hill wrote in news:0f124957-ffdf-4da4-
:

If you suspect that the roots have started to rot, then smell them.

I removed one of the shrubs to look at the roots (the cpmpost was still
losse from my repotting operation). The roots seem absolutely fine. There
is no sign of any rot at all; they all seem crisp and pale in colour, as
you would expect a healthy root to look.

Al