Does anyone in Bucks/MiddlesexHerts area (30 miles radius of Watford)
have a gardenful of unwanted *English* bluebells (ie the ones with
purple pollen) that they wish to get rid of to a good home?

Obviously I can't dig them up from the wild but if anyone is about to
go mad trying to eradicate them from their own garden (eg see grape
hyacinth thread!!!!!!!!) please let me know.

I have been trying to get a clump going in the garden for three years
now (from two cultivated bulb pots bought from a garden centre) and
they don't seem to be spreading at all, and I'm now thinking my
allotment orchard would be a marvellous place to grow them.

I don't want Spanish or Hybrid bells (both have cream pollen) as there
are way too many of those about!


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove nospam from replies, thanks!

On Fri, 02 May 2003 21:19:25 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:

~
~I have been trying to get a clump going in the garden for three years
~now (from two cultivated bulb pots bought from a garden centre) and
~they don't seem to be spreading at all, and I'm now thinking my
~allotment orchard would be a marvellous place to grow them.
~
~I don't want Spanish or Hybrid bells (both have cream pollen) as there
~are way too many of those about!
~
~ Toy want the genuine Hyacinthoides non-scripta they can be obtained
~from:
~
~The Herb Garden & Historical Plants Nursery - herbs, wild flowers &
~native species
~http://www.historicalplants.co.uk/section1.html
~
~ They do mail order and H. non-scripta are1.50 a throw.

I know, I can't afford to buy as many as I would need to make a nice
display. The two lame pots I have cost me £6 and after 4 years I've got one
pathetic flower stem.

That's why I thought I'd see if anyone was trying to get rid of them!

~
~ Except for the ones growing in the wild I can't remember the last
~time I saw a native bluebell. You certainly can't dig them from the
~wild and I think seed germination may be a little problematic.

Exactly!
We have a seriously wonderful bluebell wood near work, and the owners have
chainlink fenced it off. Should be nicely protected!
cheers


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove nospam from replies, thanks!

We have loads of bluebells in our garden. If I knew how to tell if they
were English ones I would more be more than willing to send you some bulbs
later in the year. About 10 years ago (I would have been 8) I went walking
with my Dad and cousins and (without my Dad knowing) we dug up about 10
bulbs and planted them around my garden. Every year they increase and one
bed that was previously empty now id full of them! We have blue ones and
white ones growing everywhere and I should think we can spare some if you
would like. If you contact me with instructions on pulling them up properly
and getting them ready for storage I'll be more than happy to!

Charlie.

"jane" wrote in message
...
Does anyone in Bucks/MiddlesexHerts area (30 miles radius of Watford)
have a gardenful of unwanted *English* bluebells (ie the ones with
purple pollen) that they wish to get rid of to a good home?

Obviously I can't dig them up from the wild but if anyone is about to
go mad trying to eradicate them from their own garden (eg see grape
hyacinth thread!!!!!!!!) please let me know.

I have been trying to get a clump going in the garden for three years
now (from two cultivated bulb pots bought from a garden centre) and
they don't seem to be spreading at all, and I'm now thinking my
allotment orchard would be a marvellous place to grow them.

I don't want Spanish or Hybrid bells (both have cream pollen) as there
are way too many of those about!


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove nospam from replies, thanks!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18/04/03

The message
from (jane) contains these words:

Does anyone in Bucks/MiddlesexHerts area (30 miles radius of Watford)
have a gardenful of unwanted *English* bluebells (ie the ones with
purple pollen) that they wish to get rid of to a good home?

Obviously I can't dig them up from the wild but if anyone is about to
go mad trying to eradicate them from their own garden (eg see grape
hyacinth thread!!!!!!!!) please let me know.

I have been trying to get a clump going in the garden for three years
now (from two cultivated bulb pots bought from a garden centre) and
they don't seem to be spreading at all, and I'm now thinking my
allotment orchard would be a marvellous place to grow them.

I don't want Spanish or Hybrid bells (both have cream pollen) as there
are way too many of those about!


They do take three or four years to really get going, from either bulbs
or seeds. I despaired the first year or so after I'd planted 50 bulbs
bought in the green. The last couple of years (Year 4 & 5) they seem to
be about doubling in flowering stems each year.

Janet G

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
We have plenty of bluebells growing in the hedges around here (west
Cornwall), all with creamy white pollen. Perhaps they're all hybrids,
but my wild-flower book gives the colour of the anthers of the wild
English bluebell as creamy, and those of the Spaniard as blue. The RHS
encyclo. also gives these colours. As a one-time bee keeper, my pollen
book (pub.1951) gives shades of greenish-cream for English bluebell
and grey-blue-green for 'garden bluebell' (presumably E. hispanica).
Neither species produces purple pollen, apparently.

This isn't just a pedantic comment, but a serious enquiry. I too am
interested in 'real' English bluebells, and was considering collecting
seed from the local hedgerow flowers (is this legal?) until I read
your post, which made me think they might not be as thoroughbred as I
assumed, so I checked. It also occurs to me that you might be trying
to grow the wrong thing!


--
Chris

Chris and the group.
This is the best handy online reference I can find for Bluebells.
http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/cheshire/bbelbpnw.htm

I'm not sure I agree with their findings but this place is probably less
disturbed than most. So you have to take my observations as a snapshot of my
patch which might not be reflected elsewhere.
FWIW my observations here - 10Ha country house garden, large proportion
lightly or hardly gardened and I've seen the bluebells for 28 springs now.
We have 3 discrete populations of hybrids in areas where the place has been
most intensively gardened.
In a gardened path through the woodland we have a small patch of about 3
square metres of Spanish with perhaps the odd hybrid (been much the same for
28 years).
The lightly gardened areas have clearly never had bluebells planted and away
from the paths are almost certainly as near true english bluebells as you
will get in a garden.
In the Estate woodlands - ( a lot of it ancient semi natural) I don't have
detailed knowledge or continuous observation but looking casually they seem
to be english.
These populations have been pretty static over the 28 seasons; so at least
as far as this estate is concerned I don't see the english bluebell in any
real danger - don't forget those 'foreigners' have been here since
16something. The discrete populations here have stayed that way and should
continue that way unless somebody interferes with them.
IMHO the real danger (if it really matters that much anyway) is people
dumping unwanted bluebells in the countryside and of misguided
'conservationists' buying or obtaining bluebells of unknown provenance to
'restore' a bluebell wood. I'm guessing that that's how the spanish and
hybrid bluebells got out there in the first place.

Rod

On Sat, 3 May 2003 09:41:46 +0000 (UTC),
(jane) wrote:

~ They do mail order and H. non-scripta are1.50 a throw.

I know, I can't afford to buy as many as I would need to make a nice
display. The two lame pots I have cost me £6 and after 4 years I've got one
pathetic flower stem.

I too am seriously into replacing some of the H. hispanica which are
fairly rampant in the garden here with non-scripta, so I will have to
buy four or five plants to get them going. There must be a bluebell
expert in urg somewhere.

I think light is probably quite important - dappled rather than part
shade and perhaps they are more than usually fussy about the pH
produced by the leaf litter.

I think I will keep them in a large pot/tub (big enough to support a
worm or two) and move it around until it seems I have found a spot
which suits them best. I don't think I'll feed them (no chemical feeds
here anyway).

Good luck

Hussein
Grow a little garden

spam block - for real addy, reverse letters of second level domain.

On Sat, 3 May 2003 19:05:27 +0100, "Rod"
wrote:

IMHO the real danger (if it really matters that much anyway) is people
dumping unwanted bluebells in the countryside and of misguided
'conservationists' buying or obtaining bluebells of unknown provenance to
'restore' a bluebell wood.

There is a bulk bulb supplier called Florajacs and I once upon a
time took up their Special Offer which was an assortment including
"Aconites" (why didn't they say Eranthis?) and "Bluebells".

The Eranthis hyemalis haven't yet flowered though Eranthis bought
from another supplier are doing well and, yes, the bluebells were
Spanish.

In bulk Florajacs are, of course, cheap. I can therefore well
imagine someone planting loads of "Bluebells" purchased from them and
imagining they have started an English bluebell colony.

Hussein

Grow a little garden

spam block - for real addy, reverse letters of second level domain.

Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson wrote in message ...
The message
from (jane) contains these words:

Does anyone in Bucks/MiddlesexHerts area (30 miles radius of Watford)
have a gardenful of unwanted *English* bluebells (ie the ones with
purple pollen) that they wish to get rid of to a good home?

Obviously I can't dig them up from the wild but if anyone is about to
go mad trying to eradicate them from their own garden (eg see grape
hyacinth thread!!!!!!!!) please let me know.

I have been trying to get a clump going in the garden for three years
now (from two cultivated bulb pots bought from a garden centre) and
they don't seem to be spreading at all, and I'm now thinking my
allotment orchard would be a marvellous place to grow them.

I don't want Spanish or Hybrid bells (both have cream pollen) as there
are way too many of those about!


They do take three or four years to really get going, from either bulbs
or seeds. I despaired the first year or so after I'd planted 50 bulbs
bought in the green. The last couple of years (Year 4 & 5) they seem to
be about doubling in flowering stems each year.


So where do the pink and white varieties come into it?

In message , Hussein M.
writes
On Sat, 3 May 2003 19:05:27 +0100, "Rod"
wrote:

IMHO the real danger (if it really matters that much anyway) is people
dumping unwanted bluebells in the countryside and of misguided
'conservationists' buying or obtaining bluebells of unknown provenance to
'restore' a bluebell wood.

There is a bulk bulb supplier called Florajacs
snip
the bluebells were
Spanish.

I recently bought some bluebells from Florajacs. The photo on their web
site appears to be off English Bluebells
http://www.florajacs.co.uk/images/bluebell.jpg
and their description is Bluebell (Scilla Non-Scripta).

I have numerous Spanish types and intend to gradually replace these with
the English ones (correction after they've flowered this year I plan to
dig up and burn the Spanish ones so that I don't just create a mass of
hybrids). If the Florajac bluebells are indeed not English then I will
be extremely unhappy - maybe I should wait until next year before
removing the existing ones..

--
dave @ stejonda

?why do Americans chatter during London West End Theatre?

On Mon, 5 May 2003 14:46:26 +0100, Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson
wrote:

The message
from "dave @ stejonda" contains these words:

In message , Hussein M.
writes
On Sat, 3 May 2003 19:05:27 +0100, "Rod"
wrote:

IMHO the real danger (if it really matters that much anyway) is people
dumping unwanted bluebells in the countryside and of misguided
'conservationists' buying or obtaining bluebells of unknown provenance to
'restore' a bluebell wood.

There is a bulk bulb supplier called Florajacs
snip
the bluebells were
Spanish.

I recently bought some bluebells from Florajacs. The photo on their web
site appears to be off English Bluebells
http://www.florajacs.co.uk/images/bluebell.jpg
and their description is Bluebell (Scilla Non-Scripta).

snip

hybrids). If the Florajac bluebells are indeed not English then I will
be extremely unhappy - maybe I should wait until next year before
removing the existing ones..

It would be very worrying if a set-up as big as that is sending out vast
quantities of misnamed bluebells.
Could you perhaps ask them for a definite assertion either way rather
than waiting a year to find out?


This made me suddenly wonder whether I had inadvertently and
unfairly maligned Florajacs.

I definitely got their special offer which included "50 Bluebells".
I don't remember there being bluebells in the garden before. They have
been going for a couple of years now and are spread about quite a bit
and are pale blue and upright. What does that sound like to you?

Yes, they do, I see, list non-scripta in their wholesale offerings.

Hang on. What about prices.

Well, to give an idea of what was included in the special offer for
sixty squid:

100 Single Snowdrops
50 Double Snowdrops
50 Aconite Cilicia
50 Bluebells
50 Aconite Hyemalis

Plus 50 FREE Tète â Tète Narcissi

* 5 Cyclamen Coum
5 Erythronium Pagoda
25 Snowdrop Ikariae
25 Snowdrop Elwesii

You Save £10.75

They are wholesaling non-scripta at 12 squid per 100 so the bluebell
element of the order is theoretically 6 squid.

Have you seen the picture they have of their non-scripta?

http://www.florajacs.co.uk/spring.htm

Yes, it's not a good large clear graphic but the colour looks the
same as mine. I had a look for cream pollen today and didn't find any.
Who knows, maybe I have a garden chock a block with non-scripta!

I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.

We'll see. Maybe that was the ten pounds saving, maybe they ...

Aw shucks, I'm getting mine from the other place.

Huss

Maybe the special offer
Grow a little garden

spam block - for real addy, reverse letters of second level domain.

On Tue, 06 May 2003 03:21:59 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:

I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.

Dig about on the net to find definative(*) ways of telling the
difference, flower colour alone is not good enough. I have vague
memories of the way the individual flower bells are arranged on the
stem is the best method, one has them arranged all round the other
tends to have them on one side. I *think* the English is all round but
with the hybrids about gawd alone knows what happens. Combined with
the pollen colour previously discussed and you can have a high
confidence level on your identification.

(*) If you can ever get a "definative" answer from the net. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.

On Tue, 06 May 2003 20:09:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 06 May 2003 03:21:59 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:

I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.

Dig about on the net to find definative(*) ways of telling the
difference, flower colour alone is not good enough. I have vague
memories of the way the individual flower bells are arranged on the
stem is the best method, one has them arranged all round the other
tends to have them on one side. I *think* the English is all round but
with the hybrids about gawd alone knows what happens. Combined with
the pollen colour previously discussed and you can have a high
confidence level on your identification.

(*) If you can ever get a "definative" answer from the net. B-)

Hi,

I have done a search and went out last night at an unearthly hour to
snip some blooms to compare them with the detailed pics of hispanica
and non-scripta at this site:
Plantas Sylvestres de Espana (Wild flowers of Spain)
http://www.hoseito.com/FLORES%20SILV...on-scripta.htm
http://www.hoseito.com/FLORES%20SILV...0hispanica.htm

There wasn't much difference in either of the plants these guys
photographed and mine could have been either.

Problem is, the pics of non-scripta at the Spanish site don't look
and earthly like the pics of non-scripta to be found elsewhe

http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/P146932.HTM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest...ten/wallpaper/
http://www.apl-385.demon.co.uk/rnhs/detail1.htm

http://www.unigarden.com/egroepen/en...onscripta.html
give the following description of non-scripta:
Western Europe, both naturalised and indigenous.
Syn. Endymion nutans, Scilla nutans, Scilla non-scripta
non-scriptus = not striped
nutans = nodding
The bluebell scarcely appears as a pure species. In most areas we can
mainly find hybrid groups of Hyacinthoides non-scripta and H.
hispanica. These hybrids have wider leaves and inflorescences which
barely nod. The original species is hardly ever planted in gardens and
parks but varieties from crossbreeding are (see Hyacinthoides
hispanica).

I find the naming of the synonyms interesting.
I don't know quite how erect and striped Scillas are, but the plants I
got from Florajacs and the flowers portrayed on the Spanish site,
apart form having a mauvey tinge which is absent from the plants
pictured on bioimages, BBC etc. which are a deep velvety blue, also
have an unmistakable darker streak running down the petals and do not
have the drooping posture exhibited by the 'proper' pictures of
non-scripta.

Also interesting is the fact that The Plants of Gledhow Valley
http://www.fgvw.co.uk/html/florafauna/plantlist1.htm
list amongst their species:
Bluebell (cross native/spanish)
Bluebell (native)

It appears that hispanica hybridises with non-scripta so easily and
is so much more adaptable that, as the man said, the original
non-scripta hardly exists outside its wild niche unless propagated
vegetatively. It seems even plantsmen and nurseries are now, in good,
faith passing hybrids as non-scripta.

Prices should tell something.

How come The Herb Garden & Historical Plants Nursery - herbs, wild
flowers & native species
http://www.historicalplants.co.uk/section1.html

- who purport to be as fastidious as they are able in supplying the
correct plant, offer mail order H. non-scripta at 1.50 a throw but
Florajacs can toss'em out at 12 squid per hundred i.e. 12 pence each?


Hussein
Grow a little garden

spam block - for real addy, reverse letters of second level domain.

On Tue, 06 May 2003 21:07:17 +0100, Hussein M.
wrote:

~On Tue, 06 May 2003 20:09:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
~
~On Tue, 06 May 2003 03:21:59 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:
~
~ I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
~ local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.
~
~Dig about on the net to find definative(*) ways of telling the
~difference, flower colour alone is not good enough. I have vague
~memories of the way the individual flower bells are arranged on the
~stem is the best method, one has them arranged all round the other
~tends to have them on one side. I *think* the English is all round but
~with the hybrids about gawd alone knows what happens. Combined with
~the pollen colour previously discussed and you can have a high
~confidence level on your identification.
~
~(*) If you can ever get a "definative" answer from the net. B-)

well this site (which I mentioned previously) is pretty much that.
http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/home.htm

In it is http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/plants.htm
which has a nice little interactive question and answer applet which
not only gives you information of the three types (English, Spanish
and hybrid) but allows you to feed in characteristics of whatever you
have in your plot/area and identify which you have.

The pollen's the biggest giveaway, which I now know the *right* way
round!!! Both hybrid and Spanish have blue/purple pollen, which I've
verified by going out in my back garden where I've got three huge
clumps of Hispanica, and it's definitely blue!


~Hi,
~
~I have done a search and went out last night at an unearthly hour to
~snip some blooms to compare them with the detailed pics of hispanica
~and non-scripta at this site:
~Plantas Sylvestres de Espana (Wild flowers of Spain)
~http://www.hoseito.com/FLORES%20SILV...on-scripta.htm
~http://www.hoseito.com/FLORES%20SILV...0hispanica.htm
~
~ There wasn't much difference in either of the plants these guys
~photographed and mine could have been either.

This is quite a survey - wow!

hmm I think what they have got as non-scripta isn't. That's the real
problem as you say, even those who are supposed to know better, don't.

~
~ Problem is, the pics of non-scripta at the Spanish site don't look
~and earthly like the pics of non-scripta to be found elsewhe
~
~http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/P146932.HTM
~http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest...ten/wallpaper/
~http://www.apl-385.demon.co.uk/rnhs/detail1.htm
~
~http://www.unigarden.com/egroepen/en...onscripta.html
~give the following description of non-scripta:
~Western Europe, both naturalised and indigenous.
~Syn. Endymion nutans, Scilla nutans, Scilla non-scripta
~non-scriptus = not striped
~nutans = nodding

ah so that's what they mean

~The bluebell scarcely appears as a pure species. In most areas we can
~mainly find hybrid groups of Hyacinthoides non-scripta and H.
~hispanica. These hybrids have wider leaves and inflorescences which
~barely nod. The original species is hardly ever planted in gardens and
~parks but varieties from crossbreeding are (see Hyacinthoides
~hispanica).
~
~I find the naming of the synonyms interesting.
~I don't know quite how erect and striped Scillas are, but the plants I
~got from Florajacs and the flowers portrayed on the Spanish site,
~apart form having a mauvey tinge which is absent from the plants
~pictured on bioimages, BBC etc. which are a deep velvety blue, also
~have an unmistakable darker streak running down the petals and do not
~have the drooping posture exhibited by the 'proper' pictures of
~non-scripta.

sounds like you could nail Florajacs with the Trades Description Act!

~Also interesting is the fact that The Plants of Gledhow Valley
~http://www.fgvw.co.uk/html/florafauna/plantlist1.htm
~list amongst their species:
~Bluebell (cross native/spanish)
~Bluebell (native)
~
~ It appears that hispanica hybridises with non-scripta so easily and
~is so much more adaptable that, as the man said, the original
~non-scripta hardly exists outside its wild niche unless propagated
~vegetatively. It seems even plantsmen and nurseries are now, in good,
~faith passing hybrids as non-scripta.
~
~ Prices should tell something.
~
~ How come The Herb Garden & Historical Plants Nursery - herbs, wild
~flowers & native species
~http://www.historicalplants.co.uk/section1.html
~
~- who purport to be as fastidious as they are able in supplying the
~correct plant, offer mail order H. non-scripta at 1.50 a throw but
~Florajacs can toss'em out at 12 squid per hundred i.e. 12 pence each?
~

I looked at Florajacs earlier in the year when I wanted to get some
snowdrops. They were, as you say, very very cheap. But... where are
they *getting* their bulbs from in that case? With snowdrops one
doesn't know if they've been dug up from the wild in Turkey, so I
decided perhaps not, and bought 100 from the very reputable Jacques
Amand in Stanmore. They were only a tenner at that, and I could help
myself to the ones I wanted as I'd driven there. They have perked up
nicely after planting so I have great hopes my little clumps will
survive the summer.

Mmmmm... why didn't I think of this before... wonder if they have
bluebells.....


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove nospam from replies, thanks!

jane wrote:

On Tue, 06 May 2003 21:07:17 +0100, Hussein M.
wrote:

~On Tue, 06 May 2003 20:09:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
~
~On Tue, 06 May 2003 03:21:59 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:
~
~ I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
~ local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.
~
~Dig about on the net to find definative(*) ways of telling the
~difference, flower colour alone is not good enough. I have vague
~memories of the way the individual flower bells are arranged on the
~stem is the best method, one has them arranged all round the other
~tends to have them on one side. I *think* the English is all round but
~with the hybrids about gawd alone knows what happens. Combined with
~the pollen colour previously discussed and you can have a high
~confidence level on your identification.
~
~(*) If you can ever get a "definative" answer from the net. B-)

well this site (which I mentioned previously) is pretty much that.
http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/home.htm

In it is http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/plants.htm
which has a nice little interactive question and answer applet which
not only gives you information of the three types (English, Spanish
and hybrid) but allows you to feed in characteristics of whatever you
have in your plot/area and identify which you have.

The pollen's the biggest giveaway, which I now know the *right* way
round!!! Both hybrid and Spanish have blue/purple pollen, which I've
verified by going out in my back garden where I've got three huge
clumps of Hispanica, and it's definitely blue!


I looked at the Plantlife site yesterday and then while out of an evening
walk stopped by some clumps of bluebells growing in the lane by our house.
Many of the characters were clearly Spanish/hybrid (wide leaves, flower
shape and arrangement) but the pollen was definitely NOT blue, at least for
the pink one which also had quite a good scent. I notice that the plantlife
applet decides which you've got based on a concensus of at least 7
characters, not just one, so I think that any one character, including
pollen color, may be more variable in at least the hybrids, than you are
suggesting.
Anita

On Wed, 07 May 2003 10:45:24 +0100, "A.Malhotra"
wrote:

~
~
~jane wrote:
~
~ On Tue, 06 May 2003 21:07:17 +0100, Hussein M.
~ wrote:
~
~ ~On Tue, 06 May 2003 20:09:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
~ wrote:
~ ~
~ ~On Tue, 06 May 2003 03:21:59 +0100, Hussein M. wrote:
~ ~
~ ~ I will have to phone my friend so he can drive me to the famous
~ ~ local bluebell woods where I know they are non-scripta.
~ ~
~ ~Dig about on the net to find definative(*) ways of telling the
~ ~difference, flower colour alone is not good enough. I have vague
~ ~memories of the way the individual flower bells are arranged on the
~ ~stem is the best method, one has them arranged all round the other
~ ~tends to have them on one side. I *think* the English is all round but
~ ~with the hybrids about gawd alone knows what happens. Combined with
~ ~the pollen colour previously discussed and you can have a high
~ ~confidence level on your identification.
~ ~
~ ~(*) If you can ever get a "definative" answer from the net. B-)
~
~ well this site (which I mentioned previously) is pretty much that.
~ http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/home.htm
~
~ In it is http://www.plantlife.org.uk/bluebell/plants.htm
~ which has a nice little interactive question and answer applet which
~ not only gives you information of the three types (English, Spanish
~ and hybrid) but allows you to feed in characteristics of whatever you
~ have in your plot/area and identify which you have.
~
~ The pollen's the biggest giveaway, which I now know the *right* way
~ round!!! Both hybrid and Spanish have blue/purple pollen, which I've
~ verified by going out in my back garden where I've got three huge
~ clumps of Hispanica, and it's definitely blue!
~
~
~I looked at the Plantlife site yesterday and then while out of an evening
~walk stopped by some clumps of bluebells growing in the lane by our house.
~Many of the characters were clearly Spanish/hybrid (wide leaves, flower
~shape and arrangement) but the pollen was definitely NOT blue, at least for
~the pink one which also had quite a good scent. I notice that the plantlife
~applet decides which you've got based on a concensus of at least 7
~characters, not just one, so I think that any one character, including
~pollen color, may be more variable in at least the hybrids, than you are
~suggesting.
~Anita

True. If it were just pollen then it would be a lot simpler. But then
again pink and whitebells are invariably Spanish anyway, regardless of
any other characteristic!

In retrospect from this thread, looking at the weedy cluster I have,
which has cream pollen, thin leaves and is labelled English bluebell
from cultivated stock, the bells are far too pale for them to be 100%,
and quite a few of them stick upwards. I am tending to think it's an
almost-but-not-quite Englishbell :-/

There will be hybrids of straight hybrids and English which would tend
towards English in appearance but not quite have all of the
characteristics. I think that's why the questionnaire - it's not as
simple as a straight cross as Spanish have been here rather too long.

And why I reckon they are doing the survey in the first place!


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

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