Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was told
they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could buy a 1
litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5 litre costs
£50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.

I also wonder if anyone knows what a holding number is? I'm guessing
it's to do with some kind of registry of agricultural holdings, but I
don't know if it goes automatically with the sale/transfer of
agricultural land or whether it's some kind of licence granted to the
land holder by DEFRA or some other government agency. Does anyone here
have one?

Finally, are there cheaper glysophate herbicides than Roundup available?
If so, do they work as well?

brian mitchell

"brian mitchell" wrote
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was told
they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could buy a 1
litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5 litre costs
£50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.

I also wonder if anyone knows what a holding number is? I'm guessing
it's to do with some kind of registry of agricultural holdings, but I
don't know if it goes automatically with the sale/transfer of
agricultural land or whether it's some kind of licence granted to the
land holder by DEFRA or some other government agency. Does anyone here
have one?

Finally, are there cheaper glysophate herbicides than Roundup available?
If so, do they work as well?


The Agricultural Holding Act 1986. ?

See...

http://www.smallholder.co.uk/news/92...ing_a_holding/

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
just W. of London

brian mitchell wrote:
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was
told they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could
buy a 1 litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5
litre costs £50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.
brian mitchell

Perhaps the url that Sacha just posted might have answers to some of the
questions?

www.seedtoplate.com


" Press Release: Death by Multiple Poisoning, Glyphosate and Roundup
In an article submitted to the USDA on behalf of ISIS (Institute of Science
in Society), serious concerns over the safety of the most commonly used
herbicide - Glyphosate - are raised. When this chemical is combined with
others to formulate Roundup, it becomes even more dangerous.

Crops (75% worldwide) have been modified so that these herbicides can be
sprayed directly onto the plants without killing them. This, of course, so
that the weeds will die, but the plant will not. We then eat those crops
and ingest those herbicides.

A few disturbing facts from this article:

a.. A study on Ontario farming populations showed that exposure to
glyphosate nearly doubled the risk of late spontaneous abortions. When the
application was delivered in the form of Roundup, the effect was at least
two-fold.
b.. Brief exposure to commercial glyphosate caused liver damage in rats.
c.. Three recent studies suggest an association between glyphosate use and
the risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. "

In message , brian mitchell
writes
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was told
they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could buy a 1
litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5 litre costs
£50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.

I also wonder if anyone knows what a holding number is? I'm guessing
it's to do with some kind of registry of agricultural holdings, but I
don't know if it goes automatically with the sale/transfer of
agricultural land or whether it's some kind of licence granted to the
land holder by DEFRA or some other government agency. Does anyone here
have one?

Finally, are there cheaper glysophate herbicides than Roundup available?
If so, do they work as well?

brian mitchell


A holding number is the county/parish/holding number (CPH) given to all
agricultural holdings registered with Defra or one of its agencies.

They are based on nine digits, county x2/parish x3/holding x4, eg
10/301/1111

Whilst they are not as important for involvement is subsidy schemes as
they used to be they are still useful as a tool for identifying the
location of farming businesses.

If you have a smallholding or land that could be classed as part of the
farmed environment you can apply for a CPH.

--
Robert

brian mitchell wrote:
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was told
they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could buy a 1
litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5 litre costs
£50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.

I also wonder if anyone knows what a holding number is? I'm guessing
it's to do with some kind of registry of agricultural holdings, but I
don't know if it goes automatically with the sale/transfer of
agricultural land or whether it's some kind of licence granted to the
land holder by DEFRA or some other government agency. Does anyone here
have one?

Finally, are there cheaper glysophate herbicides than Roundup available?
If so, do they work as well?

brian mitchell
I did a comparison of prices at my local garden centre albeit for more
modest quantites. You have to read the pack carefully to see how much
active ingredient you are buying. Comparing by area coverage can lead to
misleading answers. I found that in the sub 1 litre range that I wanted
that the roundup brand was the dearest in each case so I suggest that
you avoid that and look at other brands. Taking a calculator with you is
essential.

HTH

Bob

In article ,
says...
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was told
they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could buy a 1
litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5 litre costs
£50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.

I also wonder if anyone knows what a holding number is? I'm guessing
it's to do with some kind of registry of agricultural holdings, but I
don't know if it goes automatically with the sale/transfer of
agricultural land or whether it's some kind of licence granted to the
land holder by DEFRA or some other government agency. Does anyone here
have one?

Finally, are there cheaper glysophate herbicides than Roundup available?
If so, do they work as well?

brian mitchell

If you really need those sort of quantities then get registered
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

Ophelia wrote:
brian mitchell wrote:
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was
told they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could
buy a 1 litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5
litre costs £50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.
brian mitchell

Perhaps the url that Sacha just posted might have answers to some of the
questions?

www.seedtoplate.com


(snip junk)

"Seed to Plate is sponsored by Northland Organic Foods, Inc.". Not exactly
an unbiased source...

And as for the press release reference source: "The Institute of Science in
society is a not for profit organisation dedicated to providing critical and
accessible scientific information to the public and to promoting social
accountability and ecological sustainability in science."

Sounds good, doesn't it? And if you look at the webpage "About ISIS", you
can find things there such as:
"Science should be unbiased and accessible to all, regardless of gender,
age, race, religion or caste.".

Nothing wrong with that. But read on:
"Science should be based on a holistic, ecological perspective that takes
proper account of the complexity, diversity and interdependence of all
nature."

Er - isn't that a bias? And then:
"It is in accordance with the precautionary principle: when there is reason
to suspect threats of serious, irreversible damage, lack of scientific
evidence or consensus must not be used to postpone preventative action."

So lack of scientific evidence must not be used to postpone preventative
action. That is from an organisation calling itself an "Institute of
Science...".

Give me strength...

--
Jeff

On 13 Apr, 11:30, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Ophelia wrote:
brian mitchell wrote:
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was
told they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could
buy a 1 litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5
litre costs £50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.
brian mitchell

Perhaps the url that Sacha just posted might have answers to some of the
questions?

www.seedtoplate.com

(snip junk)

"Seed to Plate is sponsored by Northland Organic Foods, Inc.". Not exactly
an unbiased source...

And as for the press release reference source: "The Institute of Science in
society is a not for profit organisation dedicated to providing critical and
accessible scientific information to the public and to promoting social
accountability and ecological sustainability in science."

Sounds good, doesn't it? *And if you look at the webpage "About ISIS", you
can find things there such as:
"Science should be unbiased and accessible to all, regardless of gender,
age, race, religion or caste.".

Nothing wrong with that. *But read on:
"Science should be based on a holistic, ecological perspective that takes
proper account of the complexity, diversity and interdependence of all
nature."

Er - isn't that a bias? And then:
"It is in accordance with the precautionary principle: when there is reason
to suspect threats of serious, irreversible damage, lack of scientific
evidence or consensus must not be used to postpone preventative action."

So lack of scientific evidence must not be used to postpone preventative
action. *That is from an organisation calling itself an "Institute of
Science...".

Give me strength...

--
Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some agricultural merchants sell generic "Glyphosate"
David Hill

Martin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:04:57 -0700 (PDT), Dave Hill
wrote:

On 13 Apr, 11:30, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Ophelia wrote:
brian mitchell wrote:
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was
told they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could
buy a 1 litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5
litre costs £50, the 1 litre £30.
I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.
brian mitchell
Perhaps the url that Sacha just posted might have answers to some of the
questions?
www.seedtoplate.com
(snip junk)

"Seed to Plate is sponsored by Northland Organic Foods, Inc.". Not exactly
an unbiased source...

And as for the press release reference source: "The Institute of Science in
society is a not for profit organisation dedicated to providing critical and
accessible scientific information to the public and to promoting social
accountability and ecological sustainability in science."

Sounds good, doesn't it? And if you look at the webpage "About ISIS", you
can find things there such as:
"Science should be unbiased and accessible to all, regardless of gender,
age, race, religion or caste.".

Nothing wrong with that. But read on:
"Science should be based on a holistic, ecological perspective that takes
proper account of the complexity, diversity and interdependence of all
nature."

Er - isn't that a bias? And then:
"It is in accordance with the precautionary principle: when there is reason
to suspect threats of serious, irreversible damage, lack of scientific
evidence or consensus must not be used to postpone preventative action."

So lack of scientific evidence must not be used to postpone preventative
action. That is from an organisation calling itself an "Institute of
Science...".

Give me strength...

--
Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Some agricultural merchants sell generic "Glyphosate"

Doesn't Monsanto own the patent of it?
They may well do but that does not prevent generic versions being sold
as long as they have some appropriate arrangement with Monsanto or maybe
by now the patent has expired.
Bob

The message
from Martin contains these words:

Some agricultural merchants sell generic "Glyphosate"

Doesn't Monsanto own the patent of it?

IIRC, the patent expired a decade or so ago.

--
Rusty
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk

In article , Ophelia
writes
[snipped]

Crops (75% worldwide) have been modified so that these herbicides can be
sprayed directly onto the plants without killing them. This, of course, so
that the weeds will die, but the plant will not.
How does the glyphosate know which are weeds and which are plants?

Roy.
--
Roy Bailey
West Berkshire.

Dave Hill wrote:
On 13 Apr, 11:30, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Ophelia wrote:
brian mitchell wrote:
Three years ago I bought a 5 litre container of Roundup from a local
farmers supply store. When I tried to buy the same this year I was
told they couldn't sell it to me without a holding number. I could
buy a 1 litre container but the price difference is extreme. The 5
litre costs £50, the 1 litre £30.

I'm interested to know if anyone here has run into the same situation,
anyone with a large plot or who gardens professionally? The people in
the store couldn't tell me why this new piece of regulation had been
brought in or what terrible danger is supposedly being averted by it.
brian mitchell

Perhaps the url that Sacha just posted might have answers to some of the
questions?

www.seedtoplate.com

(snip junk)

"Seed to Plate is sponsored by Northland Organic Foods, Inc.". Not
exactly an unbiased source...

And as for the press release reference source: "The Institute of Science
in society is a not for profit organisation dedicated to providing
critical and accessible scientific information to the public and to
promoting social accountability and ecological sustainability in
science."

Sounds good, doesn't it? And if you look at the webpage "About ISIS", you
can find things there such as:
"Science should be unbiased and accessible to all, regardless of gender,
age, race, religion or caste.".

Nothing wrong with that. But read on:
"Science should be based on a holistic, ecological perspective that takes
proper account of the complexity, diversity and interdependence of all
nature."

Er - isn't that a bias? And then:
"It is in accordance with the precautionary principle: when there is
reason to suspect threats of serious, irreversible damage, lack of
scientific evidence or consensus must not be used to postpone
preventative action."

So lack of scientific evidence must not be used to postpone preventative
action. That is from an organisation calling itself an "Institute of
Science...".

Give me strength...

--
Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some agricultural merchants sell generic "Glyphosate"
David Hill

Was this intended to be the reply to my post on "Killing grass" above,
rather than this subject?

--
Jeff

The message
from Martin contains these words:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:57:12 GMT, Rusty_Hinge

wrote:
The message
from Martin contains these words:

Some agricultural merchants sell generic "Glyphosate"

Doesn't Monsanto own the patent of it?

IIRC, the patent expired a decade or so ago.

er yes, I already posted that it expired in September 2000.

Not received before I read the thread and posted.

This isn't twitter, you know.

--
Rusty
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk

Roy Bailey writes
In article , Ophelia
writes
[snipped]

Crops (75% worldwide) have been modified so that these herbicides can be
sprayed directly onto the plants without killing them. This, of course, so
that the weeds will die, but the plant will not.
How does the glyphosate know which are weeds and which are plants?

It doesn't have to know. What the article is claiming is that crops have
been modified so they are no longer susceptible to it. Therefore the
glyphosate kills off all plants (whether crops or weeds) that haven't
been modified to be resistant, and fails to kill those which have been
modified.
--
Kay

In message , Roy Bailey
writes
In article , Ophelia
writes
[snipped]

Crops (75% worldwide) have been modified so that these herbicides can be
sprayed directly onto the plants without killing them. This, of course, so
that the weeds will die, but the plant will not.
How does the glyphosate know which are weeds and which are plants?

Roy.

Cultivated strains of some plants (canola, cotton, soya) have been
genetically modified to be resistant to glyphosate. See "Roundup Ready".

Some weeds have evolved glyphosate resistance.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley